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Here is What I Dont Understand about BF?


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30 minutes ago, IanL said:

That sounds like a terrible idea. Splitting it into two versions, one RT and one WEGO, would not reduce the work. It would make more. 

I would hazard a guess, given the impression I have of the way the games are played, a viable method to reduce work would be to drop WEGO and focus on RT which is where the sales are.

Just to be clear I would hate dropping WEGO because that would be the end of my playing of any new titles so I don't like that idea either.

in fact more anticipating for the next engine (or game) version, not current. With just RT I´d be out as well. Just BFC (or any experienced game programmer) could tell if it makes sense, both feature and performance wise. As said you just can make so many computations in a RT game to get it smooth running, but I wouldn´t personally be bothered for WEGO if it takes 1-2 minutes (or even longer) to compute highly improved and advanced simulation features. If some the current major issues in game engine 4 get resolved I´d expect new content to be published faster and maybe more of it. Unless no banging head at brickwall issues remain. I tend to see some issues of this sort going right ATM, but hope I´m wrong.

Really no idea on sales. I just see there´s lots of competition in RT segment, but virtually none in WEGO where despite its ageing CM is king!

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One element that has genuinely changed for the worse is the loss of ChrisND, and his twitch streams. Those were superb content, both in terms of engaging with the player base and highlighting upcoming

Yes and no...according to MikeyD, BF apparently also incurs a lot of brain damage determining OOBs and TO&Es for formations that I doubt anyone ever uses.  I was simply suggesting that they could

I've been playing Combat Mission equally as long, and I think it's an amazing outfit with wonderful support - I never got so much escapism in my life before. CMSF2 was incredible - a huge leap forward

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15 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

my  main concern is that BFC likely attempts achieving too much with this ageing sim engine. Quite in particular the RT mode to me looks like a major obstacle for getting more out of that classic and undisputed WEGO wargame. More time consuming computations (AI, pathing i.e) can be better buried in WEGO than RT, where good frame rate at high resolutions is of more major importance IMO. So if RT is required for more sells, then better make it two seperate games and let each one exploit modes (RT & WEGO) to their individual capabilities. But at last it´s their game and vision of it and altogether I´m fine with it, however long it takes.

The reality is there isn't really a separation of RT vs Wego.  Steve has gone and explained some of that prior but the short of it is you won't see them changing the format.

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Sheesh, leave for a couple of years and the British are their own race now. That's quite the trick, but congrats, I guess.

Lots of hyperbole in this thread. Comments like the reason BFC won't add staff is because they will suddenly start making COD games, or comparing an increase in staff to Star Citizen, which is the most extreme case you can think of. Like there's no middle ground.

I have no advice for Battlefront. Steve and company can proceed however they see fit,  and I can say with my wallet whether I find their path appealing, and have done by skipping a number of titles, while purchasing others. The rub of it is there really isn't any satisfactory alternative at this level of tactical gaming for me. We all have our pet ideas (campaign system being mine) that we would like to see implemented, and detailing these isn't a complete waste of time I don't think.  But stating some form of doom will befall us or BFC by more ambition strikes me as odd. If they don't want to 'expand' that's their call, and rightfully so, but why automatically assume the worst outcome if they do?

 

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On 9/13/2019 at 9:54 AM, 76mm said:

Yes, I'm afraid I'm pretty much there.  After waiting what, six years, for the first CMRT module I have pretty much lost interest.  Even when it comes out, most of the content will just be recycled materials from other games (German units, Lend-Lease equipment, etc.), and apparently won't include East Front flavor such as partisans.  I will probably buy it, but without much enthusiasm, and I doubt that I'll ever see the promised Kursk and earlier games. 

I've decided to focus my tactical gaming on games that provide more coverage of the Russian Front, which right now means Steel Panthers and even *gasp* ASL.  I've looked at going back to CMBB but can't really do it.  Sad...

Oh wow has it really been 6 years since CM:RT? What is the first module supposed to be covering anyway - fighting to Berlin? If so that is a bit of a disappointment. I find the fighting earlier in the war a lot more fun than the very late-war period. I'm also a sucker for minors, but I doubt we'll see them.

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12 minutes ago, Pelican Pal said:

Oh wow has it really been 6 years since CM:RT? What is the first module supposed to be covering anyway - fighting to Berlin? If so that is a bit of a disappointment. I find the fighting earlier in the war a lot more fun than the very late-war period. I'm also a sucker for minors, but I doubt we'll see them.

Not six years yet, but looks to be six years (or more) by the time it comes out.  Yes, it will cover the fighting to Berlin.  And no, it looks like no minors or partisans, presumably because that would require making something that hadn't already been created for another game.  Here is an extract of what will be included from a long-ago CMRT bones post:

****************

  • Waffen SS, Luftwaffe, Kriegsmarine, and Volkssturm forces as well as the progression of standard Heer formations
  • Soviets didn't change much after Bagration because, well, they didn't need to!  Plus, it would have been very disruptive to do so.  However, there's still a few new things we can give you to play with.  The big one is the Lend Lease armed tank forces sporting Valentines and Shermans.
  • New Regions that are tailored to the different battlefields fought over in the final months of the war
  • Winter terrain, graphics, and weather effects
  • New terrain to better portray the area generally, but also its ruined state
  • Massive Berlin map
  • 2 Campaigns and a bunch of stand alone battles
  • Oh, and some crazy late war German stuff that nobody ever cares anything about

***************

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On 9/12/2019 at 7:34 PM, IanL said:

Yeah but you did not ask an open question about how BFC could do x, you asked why they don't follow your prescription of what they should do. Which by definition means you started from the answer and asked why they are not wise enough to see that you are right. 

Stated with a little exaggeration and some flair. ;)

I'm sorry, did someone mention "flare"? 

 

 

:)

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On 9/13/2019 at 10:54 AM, 76mm said:

 I've decided to focus my tactical gaming on games that provide more coverage of the Russian Front, which right now means Steel Panthers and even *gasp* ASL.  I've looked at going back to CMBB but can't really do it.  Sad...

I cut my wargaming teeth on Squad Leader and ASL. The biggest problem with ASL is that it’s really difficult to play solo, so you pretty much must have a partner. Finding an opponent is pretty easy now if you use the online Virtual Advanced Squad Leader (VASL). You must have the actual module for that, and they’re becoming very expensive and scarce as hens teeth (unless there’s a black market ASL scenario website). I believe I have every original module that Avalon Hill produced, but they’ve been shelved for decades in favor of BFC CMx1 and CMx2. I believe i’ve even recognized some ASL scenarios repurposed for a CM scenario.

As much as I loved the cardboard counters, I’ll stick with BFC.

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35 minutes ago, Vet 0369 said:

I cut my wargaming teeth on Squad Leader and ASL. The biggest problem with ASL is that it’s really difficult to play solo, so you pretty much must have a partner. Finding an opponent is pretty easy now if you use the online Virtual Advanced Squad Leader (VASL). You must have the actual module for that, and they’re becoming very expensive and scarce as hens teeth (unless there’s a black market ASL scenario website). I believe I have every original module that Avalon Hill produced, but they’ve been shelved for decades in favor of BFC CMx1 and CMx2. I believe i’ve even recognized some ASL scenarios repurposed for a CM scenario.

As much as I loved the cardboard counters, I’ll stick with BFC.

 Difficult to play solo, but that's how I played as a kid, so hopefully it will work out OK; plus with VASL if I want to get into MP that will not be a problem. 

I will play VASL exclusively and with VASL cost is not really an issue, especially since I only play certain types of Eastern Front battles and so would only need a couple of the modules in any event.   Plus I don't need any scenarios at all because I don't play them--I create all of my own battles based on a home-brewed campaign.

My ASL stuff had also been in storage for about 35 years until a couple of months ago; even now I've lost/thrown away most of the paper stuff and will stick with VASL. And I'm sure I'll buy the CMRT module whenever it comes out, but I'm shifting my focus elsewhere.

I'm sick to death of gaming a very narrow slice of June-August 1944 for five years.  By now I've lost any confidence that the other games covering the East Front in '41-'43 will ever come out with this engine, if at all, so if I need to go back to ASL for the full Russian Front experience then that is what I will do.  I'm also playing around with SP, which also has very extensive coverage of the Russian Front (and everything else).  

I don't expect to be bored.

Edited by 76mm
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3 hours ago, benpark said:

When one person says something to another person, then they in turn say something to another, and so on. By the last person, the result is a tangle of the original.

A fun game, but ultimately meaningless.

I've never heard it called "telephone" before. We used to call it "Chinese Whispers". Heads off to brekky humming "Limehouse Blues".

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9 hours ago, 76mm said:

I'm sick to death of gaming a very narrow slice of June-August 1944 for five years.  By now I've lost any confidence that the other games covering the East Front in '41-'43 will ever come out with this engine, if at all, so if I need to go back to ASL for the full Russian Front experience then that is what I will do.  I'm also playing around with SP, which also has very extensive coverage of the Russian Front (and everything else).  

I don't expect to be bored.

Why don't you grab Tigers On The Hunt? It's closer to ASL then any other PC game I have seen. It even has ASL counter mods. Doesn't float my boat but sounds like it's right up your alley.

 

Mord.

Edited by Mord
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1 hour ago, Mord said:

Why don't you grab Tigers On The Hunt? It's closer to ASL then any other PC game I have seen. It even has ASL counter mods. Doesn't float my boat but sounds like it's right up your alley.

I was actually a beta tester for that game...it was close, but no cigar.  At this point I forget what the issues were, but I definitely hated the interface. Also at that time, IIRC there was no editor, which was a deal breaker for me.  But I haven't looked at the game in a few years now, I'll go back and take a look and see how it has ripened.  Thanks for the reminder!

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