Fortifications and large weapon placement in buildings

[WhiteWolf65]

I know that I am posting this again but there is nothing quite like beating a dead-horse with a stick.

As many of you know I am reading the book "Spearhead" by Alan Markos. I am hoping to finish this excellent book but I am still recovering from my hospital stay I had recently.

Back to the book. One of the absolutely worst fears that tankers, and doughs alike, had when they were making their assault vs the Germans in Cologne, Germany were how the Germans placed heavy AT guns, up to 88/L56 and L/43s in the lower levels of a building. This gave our troopers very little warning and many a M4/76 and even some M-48s were taken out when they were fired upon form distances less than 500 meters. Perfect ambush set-ups and were well hidden from Allied aircraft until spotted by ground troops and were bombed out of existence or were taken out by combat engineers. The same holds true from weapon/tank pits(ramps). The purpose of these games is to show what it was like to fight in and on these absolutely terrible battlefields. All of you know that the Germans loved to park their tanks in one story structures with just their main gun pointing out. Do that in this game and I am sure the tactics for playing these games would change dramatically.

My recommendation, and this is only my recommendation, is that the designers fix problems like this that will make it a much more challenging set of games, if they ever do a new engine for all of these games. If these features were added to these games at some point, I can honestly say that all of these games would put all of the other companies dealing with this type of warfare to shame. I would like you to remember that I have been playing all manner of war games for nearly 50 years now and I have been a beta-tester for other companies that develop World War II tactical level games.

Just spouting off some steam, since I am not up to playing any scenarios at the moment.

**Chris**

[WhiteWolf65]

Maybe add some Dragon's Teeth while adding new toys.

[RockinHarry]

2 hours ago, WhiteWolf65 said:

All of you know that the Germans loved to park their tanks in one story structures with just their main gun pointing out. Do that in this game and I am sure the tactics for playing these games would change dramatically.

First of all, get well soon!  With regard to german tank parking habits (in buildings), well...there actually weren´t any at all. More of the opposite. Risks are way too high for throwing tracks or get immobed in other ways. So it was not just discouraged to attempt something like this, a concerned unit commander could also see the court martial pretty fast!  But I think what you refer to is the germans late in war and while lacking fuel and hauling means just had to make use of their otherwise left behind immobilized armor. I read about that rather oftenly particularly for the last half year of the war. They oftentimes figured this to be the better alternative instead of just blowing things up that they can´t take with them (for repair).

[WhiteWolf65]

27 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

First of all, get well soon!  With regard to german tank parking habits (in buildings), well...there actually weren´t any at all. More of the opposite. Risks are way too high for throwing tracks or get immobed in other ways. So it was not just discouraged to attempt something like this, a concerned unit commander could also see the court martial pretty fast!  But I think what you refer to is the germans late in war and while lacking fuel and hauling means just had to make use of their otherwise left behind immobilized armor. I read about that rather oftenly particularly for the last half year of the war. They oftentimes figured this to be the better alternative instead of just blowing things up that they can´t take with them (for repair).

Thank you for wishing that I get well soon. Now, as with regard to German units being discouraged from hiding vehicles/heavy towed weapons within buildings, on threat of being court-martialed, that would not be the case in the latter part of the war, especially during the final Allied drives on Germany (from both sides)....the Battle for Cologne or Aachen comes to mind. In the early stages of the war, this practice would definitely not be acceptable but in the latter part of the war the Germans were doing everything they could to save the Reich, court-martial or not.....i.e. 12 year boys or old men with Panzerfausts. The point that I am trying to get across is to make the Combat Mission:World War II titles a little more on the realistic side of things. In the book I am reading about the fight across Belgium, many Veteran PzKw IV and V crews abandoned their vehicles when confronted by a superior Allied force only to sneak back at night and destroy their vehicle. Now if that isn't a court martial offense, I don't know what is. Of course, they were ordered to do this by their commanders. So your statement about blowing things up that they couldn't take with them is somewhat not accurate. Not to argue with you. I just feel that all of the current CM World War II games, and hopefully ones dealing with the earlier stages of the war, could really use a major overhaul. Of course, I am not a coder (wish I was) and all that I am saying is nothing more than my opinion, and nothing more. Just remember, that we are no longer dealing with computer technology/coding that was used when these excellent games were released over 20 years ago. My preference would be to keep expanding on the current games, but as a sideline work on a new engine code and then just grandfather in all the good parts of the old game engine. I don't want much do I. LOL

Again, thank you for the well wishes.

**Chris**

Edited June 22, 2019 by WhiteWolf65

[RockinHarry]

Agree that early war titles would be really really nice indeed! The most neglected 1940 western front quite in particular!  About more "realism"...hm...there´s as many opinions as is members around at this board. Wish lists are long and many if browsing the board. Hard to tell on the mentioned german tank crews. Lack of time maybe (when put into flight), or lack of explosives (my prefered guess). Most likely both same time. Cheers 

[MikeyD]

CMFI has the ingredients for making early war-style engagements but there's little mention on the chat boards of people experimenting much with Italian tank battles. You'd think early war fans would jump at the chance to play with Fiat L5/21 and Renault R35 tanks. I recall from my old hobby modeling days the most popular vehicle in any survey was invariably "Not produced in kit form yet". And when the vehicle in question did come out as a kit interest in it would immediately drop off. Because its always the one just out of reach that holds the most appeal.

[RockinHarry]

6 hours ago, MikeyD said:

CMFI has the ingredients for making early war-style engagements but there's little mention on the chat boards of people experimenting much with Italian tank battles. You'd think early war fans would jump at the chance to play with Fiat L5/21 and Renault R35 tanks. I recall from my old hobby modeling days the most popular vehicle in any survey was invariably "Not produced in kit form yet". And when the vehicle in question did come out as a kit interest in it would immediately drop off. Because its always the one just out of reach that holds the most appeal.

CMAK had good opportunities for 1940 battles, kit and unit wise. Did at least one those kind of battles myself and was great fun. 

[sburke]

I read spearhead. There were no references to putting armor in buildings. The closest they got was when the Pershing tank in the book shoots a building to have it collapse on a pz IV.  There is a Panther in that fight that lies in wait near the rr station possibly in an underpass. I also don’t recall any particular instances of an at gun so placed but the main characters in the story are all armor crews. 

[MikeyD]

Germans would occasionally disguise their fortified pillboxes to resemble houses. But the Siegfried line largely pre-dates WWII and is not indicative of German emplacements you'd find anywhere else. There are virtually no scenarios dealing with Cologne or the Siegfried Line, whose timeframe won't be covered until we get a CMFB module pushing to war's end.

About abandoning and disabling tanks. the US army has (had) protocols in place to do just that, themselves, including a long string lanyard used to fire the main gun after you've first bled oil out of the recoil cylinders. Its SOP.