Hard Cat Rules v2I - Simple to Use Command & Control Rules - UPDATED 01 JUNE 2022

[chuckdyke]

7 hours ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

Chuck, I saw that.  Of course in my rules the Covered Arcs (and this is how I see them) are used for formation control and fire discipline.. I argue that this is not, when acting within a Leader's/Commander's control an individual task.. it will be dictated.  When not acting within a Leader's or Commander's control then that unit will not, in most cases, have the full intelligence picture to enable it to make decisions like how to restrict fire, or what zone to cover.   

We can agree to disagree on this one subject, and of course if you do decide to use these rules feel free to not use Rule 7 Covered Arcs, or substitute it for your own house rule.  

Everybody has their own interpretations of how things work in action... mine comes from my military experience and decades of gaming, research, tactical blogging, etc.. I also work as a Wargame M&S Engineer for the USMC's Warfighting Lab (Wargame Division).

It comes down to, what makes you happy and enjoy the game?  Do what you think is correct and makes you comfortable.

Bil

The example I gave was as follows. Crew survives and escapes from the Scimitar and is in Panic mode. He is the only one who has seen the BMP. Now to protect the integrity of the game, it is his duty to report back, so that the HQ will receive the contact Icon. The player is supposed to ignore the Intel. There is a need for initiative and common sense. In RL I wouldn't fire in that situation to ensure this in the game it is by giving our survivor a cover arc. The other is in the 'Assault Mode' I end usually inside hand grenade range of the objective a foxhole for example. Again, this is to make sure they attack the foxhole only is by a fire arc. I call rules in a game a guideline. We can't make rules for every commonsense decision. Happy gaming.  

[chuckdyke]

I agree with @JoMac out of contact you should be able to have a 'Hold Your Fire Cover Arc'. Say inside 50 meters. Maneuver elements yes you set your waypoints while you are under command of your HQ. You have enough leeway here; you can modify them between turns without breaking the original orders. Here is the element out of contact because of the building.

Edited February 14, 2021 by chuckdyke

[JoMac]

1 hour ago, chuckdyke said:

I agree with @JoMac out of contact you should be able to have a 'Hold Your Fire Cover Arc'. Say inside 50 meters. 

I Think it was limited to 100 meter max Firing Arc if out of C2...Also, all HQ's (In or Out of C2) were limited to 100 meter max, due to giving orders, etc. 

[chuckdyke]

1 minute ago, JoMac said:

I Think it was limited to 100 meter max Firing Arc if out of C2...Also, all HQ's (In or Out of C2) were limited to 100 meter max, due to giving orders, etc. 

I agree some operations are routine and have become a drill. Read all the contributions and accept what appeals to you. The two players will have the last word. It is just not the case if we enter a competition than we must accept the rules as laid down by the organizers. Till then for the individual, it is a guideline. 

[weapon2010]

 it would be awsome if the Hard Cat Rules could be programed into the game on a level above iron , call it "extreme" so we didnt have to have the discipline to follow it 

[chuckdyke]

Hard Cat Rule 5C, why don't we just press Alt+Z to show the C2 lines? I have it switched off most of the time. On Iron during the replay phase, you can see which units display their Icons relative to their HQ. I don't have much of a problem with the Area Fire Rules. Cover Arcs should be permitted if you press the Shift Key (Full Circle). That way you can hold your fire in an area. 

[chuckdyke]

On 5/25/2019 at 4:07 AM, Haiduk said:

There is one realistic and hardcore feature - to use the camera on eye-level only or at least on one step higher. And do not close the camera to the enemy objects. There is would be great, if some "fog of war" existed over terrain in 200-300 m from any unit, especially for crews of armored vehicles. 

I unlock camera levels according to terrain features. Pos 3 Top of high-rise buildings four if you occupy key terrain. 5 to 9 are maps to be used by HQ units. 

[A Canadian Cat]

11 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Hard Cat Rule 5C, why don't we just press Alt+Z to show the C2 lines

This rule is for units that are not part of the game's C2 for a particular HQ but you have declared (in your head) that they are attached. For example, if you declare that an HMG from the weapons platoon is attached to your 1st Platoon before the game starts, the game will not recognize that C2 link. The game will continue to consider the HMG as linked to the weapons platoon and never your 1st Platoon. So you have to perform the check manually as described.

[chuckdyke]

8 hours ago, IanL said:

This rule is for units that are not part of the game's C2 for a particular HQ but you have declared (in your head) that they are attached. For example, if you declare that an HMG from the weapons platoon is attached to your 1st Platoon before the game starts, the game will not recognize that C2 link. The game will continue to consider the HMG as linked to the weapons platoon and never your 1st Platoon. So you have to perform the check manually as described.

So, for example I send my platoon HQ (He has the RTO) with the first squad on a recon. I can assign 2nd and 3 rd. squad temporarily to Company HQ as Com HQ is in C2 with their Platoon HQ. Your HMG if they are in visual contact with the friendly HQ they will also get their contact icons and would be permitted area fire. Which level difficulty they play? On Iron you see who is in contact before you press the Red Button on the end of the replay phase. I just want to make it all clear if we play under @Bil Hardenbergerrules there is no fun starting with an argument. 

[A Canadian Cat]

14 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

So, for example I send my platoon HQ (He has the RTO) with the first squad on a recon. I can assign 2nd and 3 rd. squad temporarily to Company HQ as Com HQ is in C2 with their Platoon HQ.

Correct. This example the game already automatically supports. If a squad is out of contact with their immediate HQ will still be in C2 if their company HQ is close by. So, no need for special rules to be invoked.

 

14 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Your HMG if they are in visual contact with the friendly HQ they will also get their contact icons and would be permitted area fire.

They will be able to area fire at the direction of the HQ they are attached to. Only the game will transfer contact icons and in the scenario of the "attached by us" HMG team you don't have to wait for those contact icons to get to the HMG unit you can direct the fire by the attached HQ.

 

14 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Which level difficulty they play? On Iron you see who is in contact before you press the Red Button on the end of the replay phase.

This is an interesting point. Under Iron the game can tell you if the attached HMG team is aware of the HQ unit - during play back. The other main objective of these rules is to not force people to keep track of stuff. You should be able to apply them just based on the state of the game while you are issuing orders. From that point of view I would say do not use the iron info to determine if the HMG team should be considered in C2 but use the rule's technique.

 

14 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

I just want to make it all clear if we play under @Bil Hardenbergerrules there is no fun starting with an argument. 

Indeed. Good point. Obviously this system takes some trust between the players to work. Also, obviously even two well intentioned and trusting players may disagree. My personal feeling is that you can have a conversation with your opponent. Run through the issues in this thread and any hyptotheticals you like and come to some agreement on your interpretation. I would then see if you can have a port mortum after the battle and discuss anything that you had trouble deciding on. After a few rounds of that you and your opponent will likely come to more of an agreement or hate each other and never play again

None of these rules cause a huge burden on you. I have played many games and used these rules my self and never even brought them up to my opponent because I find that they increase realism without a large burden or major disadvantage.

[chuckdyke]

@IanL Thank you for taking the time addressing the issues. With fire arcs by out of contact units I just press 'Shift + K' to form a circle to hold fire outside their area. The way I play it is similar to @Bil Hardenberger rules. I just have different Camera protocols and fire arcs. Units out of contact are expected to find their way to a friendly HQ and at times I select them with Camera Position 1 only. Respect the integrity of the game as a military simulator. 

[JorgenCAB]

I just started playing with this rules and must say I really like them... have not played Combat Mission for quite some time...

Regarding the fire arcs discussion this was one thing that came up in a recent scenario I was playing (single player) and my house rule was to give a cutoff squad or fire-team a choice between trying to fulfill the original order (if able) or go into self preservation mode. I would "role-play" that on a case by case scenario... to be honest that seem to be a very difficult way to write down in hard fast rules when a unit happens to violate an order.

Once a unit or team start panicking or become pinned and/or receiving heavy casualties AND become separated from it's platoon I would likely force them into a self preservation mode and only allow them to fire on anything unless fired upon until they regain C2 with its platoon leader or another HQ unit. This will make me even more forced in C2 as a unit that is pinned and seriously shaken would suddenly forgive orders and just hide unless the enemy get really close to their position. If they have not already bolted they would fire, of course they may fire if fired upon in every case.

But unless the unit was separated from it's platoon under chaotic circumstances there should be very few cases they would change their standing order. 

There also are those situation when a platoon is defending a stretched out area and being out of C2 is a product of design. In those circumstances the squad or team in question are likely to stubbornly follow the last order until the HQ reestablishes contact. The same could happen on a battle drill on the attack. A team might get an order that will take them outside of C2 for an extended period. The team or squad then have to perform that "order" the best of their ability. In my opinion this is also try about recon... they will get an order of what to do and come back or hold position. When **** hit the fan then they will fall into self preservation mode and a different ruleset should apply.

There also is the option of detaching a scout team from an isolated section to run back and find their HQ and report any development and request any new orders. Even a panicked squad might do this after they run off and hide in a forest nearby. Or a platoon leader who lost their radio need to communicate with their company HQ but can't really leave it's post, sending one or two runners probably is the second best option available.

In single player I always give mental orders to squads, platoons and companies and then have the leaders trying to perform them to the best of their abilities until they can make contact and get new orders. There also is a limited amount of orders a company or battalion commander can give and receive in any given 60 second turn. But making hard rules for that is kind of difficult.

At least It makes for more fun games for me and the game become more challenging overall, especially some of the single player campaigns becomes quite difficult to play. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by JorgenCAB

[MOS:96B2P]

On 9/12/2021 at 8:04 PM, JorgenCAB said:

I just started playing with this rules and must say I really like them... have not played Combat Mission for quite some time...

Regarding the fire arcs discussion this was one thing that came up in a recent scenario I was playing (single player) and my house rule was to give a cutoff squad or fire-team a choice between trying to fulfill the original order (if able) or go into self preservation mode. I would "role-play" that on a case by case scenario... to be honest that seem to be a very difficult way to write down in hard fast rules when a unit happens to violate an order.

Once a unit or team start panicking or become pinned and/or receiving heavy casualties AND become separated from it's platoon I would likely force them into a self preservation mode and only allow them to fire on anything unless fired upon until they regain C2 with its platoon leader or another HQ unit. This will make me even more forced in C2 as a unit that is pinned and seriously shaken would suddenly forgive orders and just hide unless the enemy get really close to their position. If they have not already bolted they would fire, of course they may fire if fired upon in every case.

But unless the unit was separated from it's platoon under chaotic circumstances there should be very few cases they would change their standing order. 

There also are those situation when a platoon is defending a stretched out area and being out of C2 is a product of design. In those circumstances the squad or team in question are likely to stubbornly follow the last order until the HQ reestablishes contact. The same could happen on a battle drill on the attack. A team might get an order that will take them outside of C2 for an extended period. The team or squad then have to perform that "order" the best of their ability. In my opinion this is also try about recon... they will get an order of what to do and come back or hold position. When **** hit the fan then they will fall into self preservation mode and a different ruleset should apply.

There also is the option of detaching a scout team from an isolated section to run back and find their HQ and report any development and request any new orders. Even a panicked squad might do this after they run off and hide in a forest nearby. Or a platoon leader who lost their radio need to communicate with their company HQ but can't really leave it's post, sending one or two runners probably is the second best option available.

In single player I always give mental orders to squads, platoons and companies and then have the leaders trying to perform them to the best of their abilities until they can make contact and get new orders. There also is a limited amount of orders a company or battalion commander can give and receive in any given 60 second turn. But making hard rules for that is kind of difficult.

At least It makes for more fun games for me and the game become more challenging overall, especially some of the single player campaigns becomes quite difficult to play. 

+1.  These rules can add a lot of fun and realism to the game. 

[nathangun]

12 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

+1.  These rules can add a lot of fun and realism to the game. 

 

I wish more of the lads over at the FGM would use them.

[Bil Hardenberger]

On 9/12/2021 at 9:04 PM, JorgenCAB said:

I just started playing with this rules and must say I really like them... have not played Combat Mission for quite some time...

...

At least It makes for more fun games for me and the game become more challenging overall, especially some of the single player campaigns becomes quite difficult to play. 

I am happy to hear that you have been trying these out, they can give a very rewarding and eye opening experience.

On 9/12/2021 at 9:04 PM, JorgenCAB said:

There also are those situation when a platoon is defending a stretched out area and being out of C2 is a product of design. In those circumstances the squad or team in question are likely to stubbornly follow the last order until the HQ reestablishes contact. The same could happen on a battle drill on the attack. A team might get an order that will take them outside of C2 for an extended period. The team or squad then have to perform that "order" the best of their ability. In my opinion this is also try about recon... they will get an order of what to do and come back or hold position. When **** hit the fan then they will fall into self preservation mode and a different ruleset should apply.

There also is the option of detaching a scout team from an isolated section to run back and find their HQ and report any development and request any new orders. Even a panicked squad might do this after they run off and hide in a forest nearby. Or a platoon leader who lost their radio need to communicate with their company HQ but can't really leave it's post, sending one or two runners probably is the second best option available.

Regarding the above... you can always write down an SOP for these detached units.  An SOP such as, "Squad 1: Return to Platoon HQ if situation 1 or 2, advance to ___ if situation 3", etc.

They might have options to retire or take up another action under differing circumstances.  At least for Western style armies... the Soviets, and probably the Italians with a stricter centralized control would not have this flexibility, at least not at the platoon level.

Bil

[Darth Panzer]

Just found this topic, I know its been out for awhile, but this is a perfect way to play.

[nathangun]

36 minutes ago, Darth Panzer said:

Just found this topic, I know its been out for awhile, but this is a perfect way to play.

 

I couldn't agree more.

[Bil Hardenberger]

@IanL - for your SA

I have made some additions and small edits to these rules.  I added "designer notes" (look for the green boxes) and cleaned up the rules slightly. The designer notes are intended to supply an explanation for some of the more controversial rules.  I hope they do the trick.

Post here if you have any questions or comments.

Here are the basic rules - a formatted PDF Version available at this link This PDF includes all of the latest additions (version 2H) - UPDATED 01JUN22

Click the image to see full size.

The following Advanced or Optional Rules also fit on one page, they are on page two of the PDF linked above. 

Click the image to see full size.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Bil Hardenberger

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Thanks Bil, good to see them kept clean and up to date.

[A Canadian Cat]

23 hours ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

I added "designer notes" (look for the green boxes) and cleaned up the rules slightly. The designer notes are intended to supply an explanation for some of the more controversial rules.  I hope they do the trick.

Really nice @Bil Hardenberger. I do like the green intent information. I think it will help with understanding the rules.

[MOS:96B2P]

+1.  Good stuff!  Thank you for the update @Bil Hardenberger.  This kind of stuff makes a great game even greater!!  

[chuckdyke]

I think you should be allowed short cover arcs for the purpose of holding fire.  

[Bil Hardenberger]

4 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

I think you should be allowed short cover arcs for the purpose of holding fire.  

That’s one of the optional rules.  Feel free to modify them as you like.  I do see your point though, that a team or squad leader would be able to give his team these types of orders.

[chuckdyke]

1 minute ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

That’s one of the optional rules.

My game is influenced by your rules. I see them as guides but very useful. Artillery: WW2 Kesselring was in Nuremburg and had to answer why he went ahead with the bombardment of Rotterdam. His defense was the bomber crews didn't see the flare of the ground forces. It was pointed out flares should be used to confirm a mission not to cancel it. I feel artillery could be canceled for this reason. I know Kesselring talked about the Luftwaffe, but even Soviet infantry had signal pistols. But I think Soviet artillery shouldn't be allowed to adjust it. Kind regards.