Assault Boats?

[MikeyD]

Amphibious capability didn't show up til CMBS, I think. So if they wanted to provide assault boats to the WWII titles they'd need to retrofit the titles to make them work. It can probably be done in theory but you're faced with a large number of coding/behavior/animation issues. Carrying the boat to the water, getting in, paddling across, and getting out. And a dozen other things besides. That a lot of effort for a limited use feature. Providing boats is one thing, bringing LVTs into CMFB to cross the Rhine would be very doable with the current game engine, though the vehicle's use in the game would be mighty limited.

[Bulletpoint]

5 hours ago, StieliAlpha said:

@kohlenklau created this T34 for his CMFI Malta mod and CmPzC campaign „Operation Hercules“.

Since there are no T34‘s in FI, he used the Pz IV model and gave it T34 skins. The result was pretty convincing.

My ideas was, that something similar could be done, to „simulate“ landing craft.

I'm pretty sure that is in fact a T-34 model, not a skin. A skin/texture is just a surface that's 'painted' on top of the model. In this case, I think he managed to swap two models around.

To do the landing boats in this way, there needs to already be a landing-boat-like model in the game.

[StieliAlpha]

7 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

I'm pretty sure that is in fact a T-34 model, not a skin. A skin/texture is just a surface that's 'painted' on top of the model. In this case, I think he managed to swap two models around.

To do the landing boats in this way, there needs to already be a landing-boat-like model in the game.

Nope, read the „Operation Hercules“ thread. @Kohlenklau described it somewhere.

The issue is, one can‘t import models from one game to the other. So he took the Pz IV as „nearest match“ and „just“ gave it a new look.

To make it working game wise, you obviously need something as „nearest match“ with similar characteristics. You can probably make a King Tiger look like a U-Boat, but it still would not dive...

[Pete Wenman]

24 minutes ago, StieliAlpha said:

So he took the Pz IV as „nearest match“ and „just“ gave it a new look.

I'm pretty sure that is not correct. I suspect what was done was that the selected T-34 .mdr file from RT was placed into CMFI, but renamed as a PzIV so that it would show up and be available in the editor. This will mean however that every time that specific PzIV type is selected the T-34 model would be used. A new texture does not change the shape of the 3d model.

P

[StieliAlpha]

17 minutes ago, Pete Wenman said:

I'm pretty sure that is not correct. I suspect what was done was that the selected T-34 .mdr file from RT was placed into CMFI, but renamed as a PzIV so that it would show up and be available in the editor. This will mean however that every time that specific PzIV type is selected the T-34 model would be used. A new texture does not change the shape of the 3d model.

P

I may be mistaken, but feel free to check.

[mjkerner]

Pete's correct.  They are model swaps. You rename the mdrs of the T34 to those of the PzIV and  when the game looks for a PzIV, it grabs the mdrs labeled as PzIV, not knowing that it now looks like a T34.  (You also need the proper texture added to the mod, of course.)  I swapped some models for a Crete/hypothetical Malta mod Phil (Kohlenklau) and I (and I think one or two others) were putting together but never finished. 

[Sequoia]

If I may for a moment hi-jack the thread, does any one have a hunch as to if we may ever see Schwimmwagens  and Seeps? I can see Battlefront not wanting to add them as they would be used ahistorically. Of course jeeps and Kubelwagens are already used ahistorically for recon of death.

[StieliAlpha]

12 hours ago, Pete Wenman said:

I'm pretty sure that is not correct. I suspect what was done was that the selected T-34 .mdr file from RT was placed into CMFI, but renamed as a PzIV so that it would show up and be available in the editor. This will mean however that every time that specific PzIV type is selected the T-34 model would be used. A new texture does not change the shape of the 3d model.

P

Ouch, looks like you are right.

I read through the Operation Hercules thread and found that Kohlenklau indeed wrote about “copying and renaming some files”, to produce the T34.

There goes another myth down the drain.

I could have bet on being right. Good that I did not.

[WhiteWolf65]

On 2/12/2019 at 3:42 AM, Bulletpoint said:

Unfortunately not... Well, waiting is. But DK winters are just rain and mud.

In any case, I prefer waiting forever than play scenarios where I have to imagine a Schwimmwagen is a landing craft. Reminds me too much of those tabletop wargames I played as a kid, where I didn't have money for all the stuff and then just pretended a bottle cork was a tank, a book was a hill, etc.

You must be as old as me. "bottle cork was a tank, book was a hill". I remember drawing all the tanks and infantry on heavy card-stock and then gluing them standing up on a base to represent the miniatures I needed. Hey, it worked and it is still used even today.

Edited February 14, 2019 by WhiteWolf65

[WhiteWolf65]

On 2/12/2019 at 11:38 PM, MikeyD said:

Amphibious capability didn't show up til CMBS, I think. So if they wanted to provide assault boats to the WWII titles they'd need to retrofit the titles to make them work. It can probably be done in theory but you're faced with a large number of coding/behavior/animation issues. Carrying the boat to the water, getting in, paddling across, and getting out. And a dozen other things besides. That a lot of effort for a limited use feature. Providing boats is one thing, bringing LVTs into CMFB to cross the Rhine would be very doable with the current game engine, though the vehicle's use in the game would be mighty limited.

I completely agree with you. If it ever was done, say in Upgrade 5 or whatever, it would indeed be a huge undertaking. Of course, they could probably use the coding from Black Sea as a baseline for a future Upgrade to add amphibious vehicles or even assault boats. If they were to do it for only a new title though, I can just hear the gamers moan and groan "Why can't they be included in the other games too?" I know this from being a beta-tester for another company. There is just so much a programmer can code into an existing game if he, or she, is limited by the constraints of that gaming engine. They can't fulfill everyone's wish list.

[Michael Emrys]

50 minutes ago, WhiteWolf65 said:

You must be as old as me. "bottle cork was a tank, book was a hill". I remember drawing all the tanks and infantry on heavy card-stock and then gluing them standing up on a base to represent the miniatures I needed. Hey, it worked and it is still used even today.

Yeah, any kind of wargaming is all about imagination. That's it always amazes me when some posters gripe about CM's graphics. They just don't know how good they have it.

MIchael

[Ales Dvorak]

16 minutes ago, Michael Emrys said:

That's it always amazes me when some posters gripe about CM's graphics. They just don't know how good they have it.

This.

[WhiteWolf65]

1 hour ago, Michael Emrys said:

Yeah, any kind of wargaming is all about imagination. That's it always amazes me when some posters gripe about CM's graphics. They just don't know how good they have it.

MIchael

Definitely. Always loved building things for my miniature collection I had eons ago. True. Gamers that have never had to set-up a board game with hundreds, or even thousands, of counters and leave it on a kitchen table, only to find out that your cat decided it was a good place to take a nap does not know the meaning of "KILL THE CAT!!!". LOL. No, I did not kill the cat.

[Bulletpoint]

You made me miss the good old days so much that now I want them back. I demand a graphics downgrade. BF please unfix or something.

[Michael Emrys]

13 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

 I demand a graphics downgrade. BF please unfix or something.

Winter dementia. You've been indoors too long. You need to start going for long walks. You'll feel better when the flowers begin to bloom again and the birds start building their nests.

Michael

 

[Erwin]

21 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

You made me miss the good old days so much that now I want them back. I demand a graphics downgrade

Well, CM1 featured assault boats for amphib landings and river crossings!      So you can simply buy CM1 and all wishes are granted. 

[Combatintman]

55 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Well, CM1 featured assault boats for amphib landings and river crossings!      So you can simply buy CM1 and all wishes are granted. 

Correct, apart from the minor detail of CMx1 not being available in the Battlefront store.

[Bulletpoint]

8 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

Winter dementia. You've been indoors too long. You need to start going for long walks. You'll feel better when the flowers begin to bloom again and the birds start building their nests.

Michael

 

 +1

That's me on the right, typing away on the forum...

 

[MOS:96B2P]

2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

That's me on the right, typing away on the forum...  

     

[RockinHarry]

slightly off topic, but concerning mentioned model swaps. Anybody yet successfully converted soldier models + textures for particular infantry formations in any the games? I´m thinking about converting german Luftwaffe infantry (CMBN, CMFB), to look like normal german paras with their smocks and unique helmet. I´m a bit in doubt of the stock games german para formations with regard to weaponry and squad organisation, most likely modeling fully equipped and trained elite german paras. Late in 1944 and 1945 they´re mostly anything but that and had to struggle for sufficient weaponry and gear, just like any other infantry of that time and maybe even more so. So it would be mostly the rebuilt formations destroyed in normandy and after, as well as the newly raised 6th and following (7th, 8th, ...) divisions. I know, bits of hacking the mdr files is necessary, but before I start myself just the question if it makes sense to try. Any hints (or links) welcomed.

[mjkerner]

Hey Harry, I can’t remember which had FJ added first, FI or BN, but I do recall doing uniform textures swaps and model swaps from one game to the other when they first came out. The model swaps look better than new textures, of course, but then you’d have the OOB problems. With new textures you’ll probably want to make normal maps to make them look “better” (they’ll never look right without 3D models). But because I don’t see how you’ll get FJ helmets without a model swap, which means all other German troops will then have the FJ helmet, you might as well go the model swap route and just don’t play any scenarios with other types of German troops. Or you could tag the FJ model swap mods, which I find to be a pain in the ass. YMMV. If you want, I’ll dig around in my toolbox and see what I have to share. 

[benpark]

Model swapping is simply renaming the pertinent model files with the name of the file you intend on replacing (back up the old one!), and adapting the texture with the new name. So you should take the model you like, then rename it with the FJ model you want to replace.

You would probably want the gear, helmet, etc. swapped as well. So take note in the Editor of what they look like when seeing what models are your target for swapping.

I do this constantly to test different ideas.

[RockinHarry]

23 minutes ago, benpark said:

Model swapping is simply renaming the pertinent model files with the name of the file you intend on replacing (back up the old one!), and adapting the texture with the new name. So you should take the model you like, then rename it with the FJ model you want to replace.

You would probably want the gear, helmet, etc. swapped as well. So take note in the Editor of what they look like when seeing what models are your target for swapping.

I do this constantly to test different ideas.

thanks @benpark

Sounds like a whole lot of work. I did try some german officer cap to steel helmet conversion (real officers lead amongst their men at the frontline and not from the desk  ) years back and IIRC textures weren´t showing corretly. Otherwise the conversion worked. Think I got it solved by changing texture names within the concerning (renamed) mdr file, but I can´t find these on my HD anymore. However, this seems the way to go then.

Btw.. a mix of helmets within a formation also sounds interesting, but this won´t probably work.

https://c8.alamy.com/compde/h3agrn/deutsche-fallschirmjager-an-der-westfront-1945-h3agrn.jpg

Edited February 15, 2019 by RockinHarry

[benpark]

It’s as complicated as locating them and copy-pasting the names. After you do it once, it will seem easy.

[benpark]

Helmet mixing probably not work, as the source soldiers from any given branch- aside from officers, generally- use the same headgear model within a formation. You would need the rag-tagging done at the code level for that. It would be great to see this allowed, but it would be extra graphic real estate better used elsewhwere, I expect.