Brit army grogs or vets - whats the deal with the warrior

[Sublime]

Love the autocannon and IED jammers. No ATGMs???? What gives? What was the reasoning?

Edited December 23, 2018 by Sublime

[Combatintman]

Must be manufactured in the UK is probably the reason.

[Hapless]

Presumably it's so no one would make the catastrophic mistake of thinking it can fight tanks.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

No stabilisation for the gun either, which is very 1940s IMHO, basically it's a heavily armed battle-taxi, not really an IFV. 

[db_zero]

Money probably also had a role. The British defense budget isn't that big or generous as the US

[Sgt.Squarehead]

2 hours ago, db_zero said:

Money probably also had a role. The British defense budget isn't that big or generous as the US

That is most certainly the core of it, but perhaps not quite in the way you might expect.....Look up the story of the Bradley's procurement/development/funding etc. it's very enlightening stuff. 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Panzerpanic]

The brit dont have missile on their ifv because they really want their tank and atgm vehicles to do the killing of tank. Personnaly i like my ifv with atgm and stab  but you do with what you have.

I suppose that you could always ask one of your javelin team to ride on top of your warrior ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ !

[MikeyD]

When Belgium in the 1970s went looking for an armored close infantry support vehicle they were offered a stripped-down Leopard 1 for the role. They turned it down in favor of Jpz-Kanone. Their reasoning was if a vehicle looks like a 'tank' commanders will be tempted to use them as 'tanks'. But they aren't 'tanks', they're dedicated close infantry support. If you strap an anti-tank weapon to an APC some commander somewhere will try to use them as anti-tank vehicles. I've seen picts of Stryker remote weapons station with a Javelin missile strapped onto it. My first thought was when shrapnel or sniper fire detonates that exposed missile it's going to take the whole CROWS weapon station with it.

[Sublime]

Fair nuff but -

Noones saying to use them as tanks -and i still imagine if the Germans can strap milans on marders..wouldnt the emergency (oh $hit tank fire the milan) be worth some idiots who ignore what they were taught?

Bradleys arent AT but historically those TOWs have saved many bradleys and also that 25mm DU that could KO T72s from the sides.

This wasnt abt bashing Brits I genuimely wanted to know about what seems a big oversight. Otherwise why develop expensive APFDS rnds - HE and AP should be fine?

[Cpl Steiner]

From a cursory investigation online it would appear that the Warrior was basically designed as a British version of the German Marder, which at the time just had a 20mm cannon. The Marder did eventually get a MILAN missile launcher as an upgrade but it didn't have one when the Warrior was developed.

[EDIT]

I should also add that the British MOD (Ministry of Defence) is notorious for letting down our servicemen and women with garbage kit. Radios that don't work and boots that are so bad the troops were forced to buy their own are just some of the stories I've read. A friend of mine who worked in the MOD said there was a general attitude of "servicemen and women always gripe", so legitimate concerns are often ignored or put off for another day.

Edited December 24, 2018 by Cpl Steiner

[db_zero]

34 minutes ago, Cpl Steiner said:

From a cursory investigation online it would appear that the Warrior was basically designed as a British version of the German Marder, which at the time just had a 20mm cannon. The Marder did eventually get a MILAN missile launcher as an upgrade but it didn't have one when the Warrior was developed.

[EDIT]

I should also add that the British MOD (Ministry of Defence) is notorious for letting down our servicemen and women with garbage kit. Radios that don't work and boots that are so bad the troops were forced to buy their own are just some of the stories I've read. A friend of mine who worked in the MOD said there was a general attitude of "servicemen and women always gripe", so legitimate concerns are often ignored or put off for another day.

Hows the food and MREs? I like watching youtube videos that compare MREs of different armies? IIRC the chicken fajitas distributes in US MREs had a reputation for explosive results. Don't know if that's really true. 

The MREs I have tried don't seem too bad to me, but a steady diet over a long period may be a different story.

[Ghost of Charlemagne]

1 hour ago, db_zero said:

Hows the food and MREs? I like watching youtube videos that compare MREs of different armies? IIRC the chicken fajitas distributes in US MREs had a reputation for explosive results. Don't know if that's really true. 

The MREs I have tried don't seem too bad to me, but a steady diet over a long period may be a different story.

In the Danish army, and a number of other European armies', they have transitioned to dehydrated/freeze-dried meals.
Supposedly it was done to reduce the weight a soldier has to carry around and allow for more variation in the meals.

[Cpl Steiner]

2 hours ago, db_zero said:

Hows the food and MREs? I like watching youtube videos that compare MREs of different armies? IIRC the chicken fajitas distributes in US MREs had a reputation for explosive results. Don't know if that's really true. 

The MREs I have tried don't seem too bad to me, but a steady diet over a long period may be a different story.

In the best traditions of the British Army, the officers eat slightly better than the men

 

[db_zero]

"In the best traditions of the British Army, the officers eat slightly better than the men "

That was hilarious...

I know in Canada Poutine is popular. I wonder if they Canadian army has managed to get that in an MRE. I'm pretty sure pizza and American favorite has been put into an MRE form or is being worked on.

[Combatintman]

51 minutes ago, Cpl Steiner said:

In the best traditions of the British Army, the officers eat slightly better than the men

 

Apart from the fact that the Royal Marines are not part of the British Army ...

[Cpl Steiner]

3 hours ago, Combatintman said:

Apart from the fact that the Royal Marines are not part of the British Army ...

Royal Navy. I stand corrected.

[Sublime]

I can confirm pizza MREs and another mexican type IIRC MRE added (cant remember if it was tacos or what) but the pizza MREs definitely are now in use

[Sublime]

On 12/24/2018 at 12:20 PM, db_zero said:

Hows the food and MREs? I like watching youtube videos that compare MREs of different armies? IIRC the chicken fajitas distributes in US MREs had a reputation for explosive results. Don't know if that's really true. 

The MREs I have tried don't seem too bad to me, but a steady diet over a long period may be a different story.

This makes sense they look amazingly like marders - a milan 3 launcher.  Im just saying you.d think especially with what Ive read on ARRSE and elsewhere about the BAOR having a fire and fall back method etc throwing swingfires or milans later on would only seem to makr sense?  I see the point of its not meant to fight tanks but it surely seems just almost a fallacy to have no anti tank remedy for emergency when the US, Germans, Russians, and Im sure countless other major military powers all have afvs that all carry atgms. Its a proven concept that works as well Id add. Not sure when warriors were adopted but 2008 seems awfully late to not even have some milan 3s on a few of em?

[Combatintman]

22 minutes ago, Sublime said:

This makes sense they look amazingly like marders - a milan 3 launcher.  Im just saying you.d think especially with what Ive read on ARRSE and elsewhere about the BAOR having a fire and fall back method etc throwing swingfires or milans later on would only seem to makr sense?  I see the point of its not meant to fight tanks but it surely seems just almost a fallacy to have no anti tank remedy for emergency when the US, Germans, Russians, and Im sure countless other major military powers all have afvs that all carry atgms. Its a proven concept that works as well Id add. Not sure when warriors were adopted but 2008 seems awfully late to not even have some milan 3s on a few of em?

To be honest we could go on and on about the Warrior. Lack of stabilised gun, the chain gun not working particularly well, the vehicle not being able to carry a full dismount section and a full crew and as per the thread title, no ATGM.

It ain't the worst IFV in the world but it could have been a lot better.

[MikeyD]

Warrior is getting a big service life upgrade scheduled for 2018 (first turrets have been delivered). The Lockheed Martin WCSP turret mounts a stabilized 40mm gun and the capability to mount missiles like Spike or Javelin. Whether the Brits will actually fit missies to the vehicle is anyone's guess.

 

[Boche]

When was this approved? wasnt the UK planning on buying the ASCOD (or AJAX as they called it) as their new IFV?

 

EDIT: Correction, I now see the AJAX was just for specialist vehicles.

Edited December 25, 2018 by boche

[MikeyD]

The Ajax turret 'shares commonality' (whatever that means) with the Warrior WCSP turret. Apparently the two projects are proceeding concurrently, both coming on-line next year, it seems.

[Sublime]

Well also I was just reading the Kuwaitis already upgraded and fielded theirs with 25mm bushmaster thats stabilized and a tandem TOW launcher. Whats not to like with that package? You get NATO commonality with your biggest ally and very decent AT ability. I dont think the vehicle itself is a problem at all..?

[Vet 0369]

On December 24, 2018 at 12:20 PM, db_zero said:

Hows the food and MREs? I like watching youtube videos that compare MREs of different armies? IIRC the chicken fajitas distributes in US MREs had a reputation for explosive results. Don't know if that's really true. 

The MREs I have tried don't seem too bad to me, but a steady diet over a long period may be a different story.

I've had an MRE only once when my mother was given some by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) after a hurricane in Florida, and they were much better than what I had when in. We had Combat Rations (C-Rats). In the 1970s, I had C-rats that were packaged in 1946. The cigarettes (four in each accessory pack) didn't even have filters. Then in 1976, when I was on deployment to a NATO exercise in Northern Norway, our Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare, decided that cigarettes were dangerous to our health, so he had them taken out of the rats, and no one told us so we could bring our own. Imagine if you will, two full Companies of Marine Infantry, in the field, going through nicotine withdrawal. Talk about dangerous to someone's health!

[Vet 0369]

On December 24, 2018 at 12:20 PM, db_zero said:

 

The MREs I have tried don't seem too bad to me, but a steady diet over a long period may be a different story.

The Meal, Ready to Eat (MRE) isn't designed to be a long-term dining option. As I understand it, they are light weight rations that provide (IIRC) 4500-5000 calories per day while in the field, until the unit can be rotated out of combat to where there's, at a minimum, a field kitchen. When we finished the NATO excercise in Norway, we rotated from a week in the field on C-rats, to a base "near" Trondhiem. We hit the mess tent and immediately began begging the Airwingers to give us the bones left over from the reindeer they had for a meal that evening. We gnawed the remaining fat off the bones. We craved the fat.