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SF2 demo game engine enhancements?


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2 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

Regarding the flickering: strange. My brother build the exact same pc as me, only difference is he got a TN gsync panel while I got an IPS. He did get some flickering in certain situations, for example in the TW warhammer menu screen. IIRC it had to do something with certain semi static graphic objects being rendered a certain way. The strange thing was that I didn't have the flickering at all. And yes I also checked his screen to see whether I could see the flickering. Not sure if he still has it and he doesn't play CM unfortunately. 
I haven't noticed flickering in CM at all.

In the video and during normal play I do use the keyboard mainly for rotating. I just tried rotating with the mouse in the CMSF2 demo beach scenario and I don't see a real difference compared to the keyboard. There is a bit of difference between 'wide' and '1.0x' screen adjustment in CM (using the 'c' key), the 'wide' option seems smoother.

I also have an IPS Gsync monitor, so not sure what it is that causes the flicker. I've read online that it's when the framerate tanks for some reason, but I'm no expert. I just know CM is the only game where I see it.

About the mouse camera control, I get a feeling I'm sometimes "dragging the camera through molasses", for lack of a better explanation.

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1. Regarding the 'low trees detail' setting. If what it's meant to do is de-animate the trees, stop them swaying (as someone has mentioned above), then it doesn't seem to work in the demo. If you swit

I'll never understand how you guys can say the game plays smooth. Looks like the meaning of smooth can vary a lot from person to person. I could call it a smooth slideshow if I would have used the smo

Previous Hackintosh had NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 4GB -3.9 GHz Intel i7-4770K - Windows 7 Pro. I was able to run all Battlefront Combat Mission games (own most all the CM titles) on DELL P2715Q Display -

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1. Regarding the 'low trees detail' setting. If what it's meant to do is de-animate the trees, stop them swaying (as someone has mentioned above), then it doesn't seem to work in the demo. If you switch the setting to 'low' the trees still sway. 

2. I was just messing around trying things and noticed the trees thing. In fact, on my pretty mediocre laptop system (i7, 8gb RAM, gtx850m) with the demo installed on the D drive (an HDD) it all works really nice and smooth with everything set to max. I do, however, always use the (free) 'crystal disc info' app to manually configure the AAM/APM control to 'Feh' in order to prevent load stutters, which that app does beautifully. (I've posted before about micro stutters running the game from an HDD on systems with SSD and HDD - the stutters are due to lags caused by head parking on the HDD  when the sound files are loading real time during the game (they are not pre-loaded each game, like the graphics files), and this 'crystal disc info' app solves the issue completely.) I mention this again just in case anyone here with the game on an HDD in a dual SSD/HDD system was experiencing micro stutters and hadn't seen that thread...

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6 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

I also have an IPS Gsync monitor, so not sure what it is that causes the flicker. I've read online that it's when the framerate tanks for some reason, but I'm no expert. I just know CM is the only game where I see it.

About the mouse camera control, I get a feeling I'm sometimes "dragging the camera through molasses", for lack of a better explanation.

ASUS ROG PG279Q?
That's the one that robbed me for a lot of cash 😉

Regarding the mouse camera, I think I understand what you mean. Think I experienced it before, but not on this pc. I sort of prefer the keyboard because it has a fixed rotation speed while the mouse rotation offers a controlled rotation speed depending on how far one moves the mouse.

 

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3 minutes ago, peter thomas said:

1. Regarding the 'low trees detail' setting. If what it's meant to do is de-animate the trees, stop them swaying (as someone has mentioned above), then it doesn't seem to work in the demo. If you switch the setting to 'low' the trees still sway. 

2. I was just messing around trying things and noticed the trees thing. In fact, on my pretty mediocre laptop system (i7, 8gb RAM, gtx850m) with the demo installed on the D drive (an HDD) it all works really nice and smooth with everything set to max. I do, however, always use the (free) 'crystal disc info' app to manually configure the AAM/APM control to 'Feh' in order to prevent load stutters, which that app does beautifully. (I've posted before about micro stutters running the game from an HDD on systems with SSD and HDD - the stutters are due to lags caused by head parking on the HDD  when the sound files are loading real time during the game (they are not pre-loaded each game, like the graphics files), and this 'crystal disc info' app solves the issue completely.) I mention this again just in case anyone here with the game on an HDD in a dual SSD/HDD system was experiencing micro stutters and hadn't seen that thread...

Regarding the crystal disc app, that sounds interesting! Never knew such an app existed. I do have CM on my SSD now, and there is no stuttering whatsoever. I did have it before on other machines and I too had the suspicion it was related to sounds, although I never bothered to check it really.

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23 hours ago, Hister said:

I'll never understand how you guys can say the game plays smooth. Looks like the meaning of smooth can vary a lot from person to person. I could call it a smooth slideshow if I would have used the smooth word describing my experience with the game and it has been like that on all the different hardware I had in these years up until the beastly rig I sport now. The only thing I haven't yet tried is using gsync monitor that purpotedly makes the gameplay "very smooth" but I am not falling for that any more, heh.     

You can try lowering the model detail to the lowest. Test it on a map with a lot of trees. Then bump up the model detail until you hit the point that is not acceptable for you.

 

27 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

The flicker only appears when the game frame rate fluctuates a lot. It doesn't appear all the time. Sometimes, it's not there at all. Sometimes, it's just barely perceptible. But in other situations, when the camera is pointing in a certain direction, it will flicker like crazy.

I think you rotate the view mainly using the keyboard? I find the most sluggish performance comes from holding down right mouse button and looking around that way.

If you point the camera towards the outside of the map, then the frames jump up and it feels smooth. If you point towards the center of the map, it drops down. This causes a lot of fluctuations.

As for moving the camera with the mouse vs keyboard. I don't think there's a performance difference between the mouse and keyboard. It's just that with the mouse movement there appears to be some sort of acceleration and really horrible mouse lag going on that makes it feel pretty bad.

 

51 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

I don't have the flickering problem with my GSYNC monitor, luckily. And yes CM doesn't run on 165 fps, but I consider this quite 'smooth' and IIRC I have the AA tuned up for CMBS:

At some points it's silky smooth (mainly when looking towards the outside of the map, and at others (like at 7 seconds) it's really bad performance, you were skipping frames like crazy. Personally, I'd recommend you lower the model detail, that mostly fixed it for me.

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4 minutes ago, BlackAlpha said:

At some points it's silky smooth (mainly when looking towards the outside of the map, and at others (like at 7 seconds) it's really bad performance, you were skipping frames like crazy. Personally, I'd recommend you lower the model detail, that mostly fixed it for me.

I feel the frames skipping comes mostly when rotating from a position where there is little to render to places with a lot to render. I don't really notice it when playing normally. I did have AA tuned up in NVIDIA though, CMSF2 demo with standard Nvidia settings seems smoother but I haven't really tested it like that yet.

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8 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

No, but it is an Asus - one of their gamer laptops with a GTX 980M. Also a lot of cash... got it at half price second hand though.

half price sounds good! :) 

While it cost me around 800 euro's for the screen alone, I don't regret the buy at all. No more screen tearing ever and I think the 1440p resolution works great with 27".

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10 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

Regarding the crystal disc app, that sounds interesting! Never knew such an app existed. I do have CM on my SSD now, and there is no stuttering whatsoever. I did have it before on other machines and I too had the suspicion it was related to sounds, although I never bothered to check it really.

Yes, you don't get the stutters/micro stutters if you install the game on your SSD, Lethaface, but if it's on the HDD then the sound files have to be loaded during gameplay from the HDD to the SSD and some HDDs (perhaps all) have a 'head parking' setting which generates enough lag to cause these stutters. The crystal disc info app allows you to switch off head parking, eliminating the lag. You can also switch off sound to get rid of them, of course. 

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Just now, Bulletpoint said:

Did you notice the AA screws up the ground textures? It's visible in your video. I got the same problem once when playing around with the Nvidia settings.

Yeah I noticed but I didn't really bother because the rest looked good. I started using that profile because I was suffering from the 'CM stopped working' problem, which someone seemingly fixed by changing the NVIDIA profile. After tweaking around with it myself I did manage to fix the problem so I didn't touch anything after. CMSF2 demo works great on a default profile so far.

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4 minutes ago, peter thomas said:

Yes, you don't get the stutters/micro stutters if you install the game on your SSD, Lethaface, but if it's on the HDD then the sound files have to be loaded during gameplay from the HDD to the SSD and some HDDs (perhaps all) have a 'head parking' setting which generates enough lag to cause these stutters. The crystal disc info app allows you to switch off head parking, eliminating the lag. You can also switch off sound to get rid of them, of course. 

Yeah that's why I thought your advice is interesting, if one doesn't have a large enough SSD and isn't willing to switch the sound off 😉

Edited by Lethaface
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1 minute ago, Lethaface said:

Yeah I noticed but I didn't really bother because the rest looked good. I started using that profile because I was suffering from the 'CM stopped working' problem, which someone seemingly fixed by changing the NVIDIA profile. After tweaking around with it myself I did manage to fix the problem so I didn't touch anything after. CMSF2 demo works great on a default profile so far.

Do you see shadows flickering on and off when moving the camera? That's the biggest graphical problem I have, and I know I'm not the only one, as I also see it in CM videos from others. However, I haven't found out if it's all players who get that problem or just some of us...

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1 hour ago, Lethaface said:

I don't have the flickering problem with my GSYNC monitor, luckily. And yes CM doesn't run on 165 fps, but I consider this quite 'smooth' and IIRC I have the AA tuned up for CMBS:

 

 

45 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

I have a 165hz Gsync monitor and while CM only runs at 20-30 fps on average use, it seems quite smooth. A lot smoother compared to CM on my previous PC's! 

I is quite smooth with your frames dropping considerably when looking towards the units. But as you said in  a later post, you regard 20 to 30 frames that you are getting in the gamesfrom general use just fine for you, I on the other hand have a hard time digesting these for me atleast low numbers since my eyes unfurtunately do not like the "slideshow" I am seeing at that frequency.  

I am not familiar with this particular scenario (thank you very much for thaking the time to record and post it!) but when I for example turn everything on and max it out in the ingame settings and then use also the shadows I get 15 FPS with my beefy rig in the Ambush scenario playing as Ukraininas when I position my camere view like shown in the screen below (shadowplay does not capture FPS counter unfurtunately):

2zgwyrm.png
 

 

23 minutes ago, BlackAlpha said:

You can try lowering the model detail to the lowest. Test it on a map with a lot of trees. Then bump up the model detail until you hit the point that is not acceptable for you.

Well sure, I had to lower my 3D model level to fast in order to be able to have FPS above 30 in most cases without the shadows but my point is I shouldn't have to with my i7 8700k and MSI 1070Ti... 

Edited by Hister
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4 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Do you see shadows flickering on and off when moving the camera? That's the biggest graphical problem I have, and I know I'm not the only one, as I also see it in CM videos from others. However, I haven't found out if it's all players who get that problem or just some of us...

No. I did have it before but so far not on this pc. Depending on the view angle the AA on shadows will change, some angles the AA seems not there at all. I will try to make a CMSF2 movie over the weekend and will check/post the nvidia settings along with it.

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18 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

Yeah I noticed but I didn't really bother because the rest looked good. I started using that profile because I was suffering from the 'CM stopped working' problem, which someone seemingly fixed by changing the NVIDIA profile. After tweaking around with it myself I did manage to fix the problem so I didn't touch anything after. CMSF2 demo works great on a default profile so far.

Nvidia control panel antialiasing transparency setting set on anything else then off or multisample is the one that makes your ground textures blurry. Set it to off and you won't have them blurry any more. This bug was introduced sometime last year with the new nvidia drivers and haven't been fixed yet. OpenGL really is of no interest to Nvidia at large unfurtunately. Prior to the bug being introduced you could set the antialiasing setting to 4x or 8x supersample and it made the game look incredibly crisp.   

15 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Do you see shadows flickering on and off when moving the camera? That's the biggest graphical problem I have, and I know I'm not the only one, as I also see it in CM videos from others. However, I haven't found out if it's all players who get that problem or just some of us...

I have them shadows flicker a lot and just look ugly in general when panning the camera around. 

Edited by Hister
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11 minutes ago, Hister said:

I is quite smooth with your frames dropping considerably when looking towards the units. But as you said in  a later post, you regard 20 to 30 frames that you are getting in the gamesfrom general use just fine for you, I on the other hand have a hard time digesting these for me atleast low numbers since my eyes unfurtunately do not like the "slideshow" I am seeing at that frequency.  

I am not familiar with this particular scenario (thank you very much for thaking the time to record and post it!) but when I for example turn everything on and max it out in the ingame settings and then use also the shadows I get 15 FPS with my beefy rig in the Ambush scenario playing as Ukraininas when I position my camere view like shown in the screen below (shadowplay does not capture FPS counter unfurtunately):

2zgwyrm.png
 

 

Well sure, I had to lower my 3D model level to fast in order to be able to have FPS above 30 in most case without the shadows but my point is I souldn't have to with my i7 8700k and MSI 1070Ti... 

The video was the 'Debaltseve Devils' scenario. I can recommend it, although I haven't finished it yet (half way). On my current build the frames don't get lower than 20FPS AFAIK and with the Gsync monitor I don't really feel like a 'slideshow'. Of course there is a noticeable difference to other games that do run on (much) higher FPS. And while I agree that my rig should be able to get a lot more performance out of it, I'm sort of ok with the current performance. Especially where I'm coming from with CMSF in 2007 :)

Edited by Lethaface
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1 minute ago, Lethaface said:

The video was the 'Debaltseve Devils' scenario. I can recommend it, although I haven't finished it yet. On my current build the frames don't get lower than 20FPS AFAIK and with the Gsync monitor I don't really feel like a 'slideshow'. Of course there is a noticeable difference to other games that do run on (much) higher FPS. And while I agree that my rig should be able to get a lot more performance out of it, I'm sort of ok with the current performance. Especially where I'm coming from with CMSF in 2007 :)

You lucky bastard! ;) 

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4 minutes ago, Hister said:

I have them shadows flicker a lot and just look ugly in general when panning the camera around. 

Thanks. Yes I have to play with the shadows toggled off, especially in CMFB when the sun is low, casting very long black shadows on the white snow.

Any idea what causes it? Nvidia drivers? Settings? Hardware?

Edited by Bulletpoint
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2 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Thanks. Yes I have to play with the shadows toggled off, especially in CMFB when the sun is low, casting very long black shadows on the white snow.

Any idea what causes it? Nvidia drivers? Settings? Hardware?

I have no idea what combo of hardware and drivers makes it different to indivdual users. I am yet to see a video where shadows don't flicker though so I am not fully convinced that people who say their shadows don't flicker are actually regarding flickering the way i do. 

1 minute ago, Lethaface said:

I'd say you should have similar or better performance, I'm on a 7700K and a 1080 with 16GB ram.

My CPU is better then yours while 1070Ti is slightly weaker to your GPU. Since CM games are bottlenecked by CPU and not GPU it supposedly gets down to the single core frequency the game runs on. I currently have the CPU set at stock 3.6MHz but saw no improvement when I ran it at 4.7MHz which was a surprise top me since one user was sayign how much better it runs on his OCed 8700k.  But anyway, I was saying you are lucky because you don't really spot the frames dropping while for me that drop is really annoying to look at.    

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4 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Thanks. Yes I have to play with the shadows toggled off, especially in CMFB when the sun is low, casting very long black shadows on the white snow.

Any idea what causes it? Nvidia drivers? Settings? Hardware?

Those CMFB shadows were at times quite horrendous indeed (like sawfish 😂), although not flickering on my pc iirc. No idea about what causes it. I will make a movie of the CMSF2 demo to let us compare.

@Hister thanks for the info regarding the AA problem! Maybe I'll try my CMBS profile on the CMSF2 demo too, although I'll disable that AA.

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2 minutes ago, Hister said:

I am yet to see a video where shadows don't flicker though so I am not fully convinced that people who say their shadows don't flicker are actually regarding flickering the way i do. 

It just seems like a problem that's very hard not to notice in CMFB. While in CMBN, the sun is often high in the sky, so the shadows are small.

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