Stinger missiles

[ebphoto]

I was wondering if you have to do anything special to get troops to fire the stinger missile? I have the stinger troops covering in three different areas of friendly units but no stingers were fired while my units were devastated by Russian helicopters and aircraft! Do you need to put a covering arc/ring around them or something else? I'd appreciate the help.

Thank you,

E

[sburke]

actually in my experience the best thing is to leave them alone to decide, but you do need to be sure they will have LOS, keep them away from intervening obstacles like trees, buildings etc.   A roof top or hill is best.  

[Erwin]

Re Stingers, would be interested in how others handle the ammo issue.  I used to load up the unit with Stingers but found that it will fire off as many as it can - and one can run out quickly.  But, if you keep some in reserve your unit runs out and while reloading, the aircraft attacks in any case.  (Maybe designers need to ensure a lot more AA missiles in their scenarios.)

[ebphoto]

Hmmm, so you don't really need to do anything I take it. I did make the mistake of hiding two units near trees! So I can understand those not being able to get any shots. I was afraid if I left them in the open they'd get hit by enemy aircraft strafing or bombing! The other though, I had on a rooftop & they didn't fire a single missile. I'm not sure why they didn't. Units were being attacked all around the area near them by the helicopter! Do they have to stay by or in the hummer they came in? Not sure I understand the whole MANPADS thing.

Thank you,

E

[sburke]

you don't have the rooftop guy in hide mode do you?

Their only constraint is having ammo... I have made that mistake.   

One thing I learned early on was grab all the damn missiles you can from the Humvee and take em with you as odds are that Humvee will get shot by the aircraft you miss with the stinger on your first missile. Get to the tallest building or highest open ground.  I am not sure I have ever had a AD guy get hit by aircraft.  Generally they either take out the offending enemy first or they stand around having a smoke while all hell is breaking lose around them.

Honestly I think I have had more luck with Russian AD guys than US, but the US guys have not been totally inept.

[Lille Fiskerby]

I deploy stinger teams at the edge of the map hopefully out of harms way. Give them as many extra missiles as possible and just have them wait.

[Erwin]

15 hours ago, ebphoto said:

left them in the open they'd get hit by enemy aircraft strafing or bombing!

Have found that leaving them in the open (hopefully not in sight of enemy ground troops) and not hidden in trees is the best way to deploy AA units.  And yes, one gets all the missiles one can in case the spares in the vehicle get blown up.  Designers just need to provide more AA units.

Also, have found the RED manpad units were more effective vs air than the expensive & sophisticated RED AA missile launcher vehicles.  (Not sure if that is also true for BLUE units.)

[ebphoto]

Hmmm, so you don't really need to do anything I take it. I'll have to deploy them more carefully & see if it makes a difference. I appreciate all the advice...

E

[MikeyD]

I had joked awhile ago that AA units were the only units you're supposed to stick out in the middle of a field far away from defilade positions.

[A Canadian Cat]

11 hours ago, ebphoto said:

Hmmm, so you don't really need to do anything I take it. I'll have to deploy them more carefully & see if it makes a difference. I appreciate all the advice...

E

 

8 hours ago, MikeyD said:

I had joked awhile ago that AA units were the only units you're supposed to stick out in the middle of a field far away from defilade positions.

 

Nice.

Joking aside I, personally, don't quite put them in an empty field. What I do though is place the various teams separate from each other just outside good cover. So, in the field right next to the forest so they can disappear into cover if the need arises. Those places need to be selected so the teams have a clear view of a lot of sky and overlapping coverage.

[Erwin]

A small copse or bushes (that the unit can see thru, but which provides "hiding cover") surrounded by open fields is good.

[DerKommissar]

In my experience, playing as UKR and USA, is that MANPADs are a weak kind of compromise for AA. By the time they spot the enemy CAS, lock on it and shoot it -- the CAS will already have done most of its work. Add in that sometimes the missiles will miss and other times they won't destroy the CAS. So, how many missiles do you have? Not many. Even dedicated MANPAD teams usually carry 1 reload and solo MANPAD operators just got one missile. Reloading takes time, CAS has fun, in the meanwhile. This makes the suppressible value of a MANPAD limited.

Moral of the story is do not expect your MANPADs to prevent CAS from vaporizing your other troops -- especially mechanized formations in open spaces. It's the equivalent to expecting floating seat cushions to prevent your passenger plane from crashing into the ocean. If your MANPADs are your only AA tool -- you're gonna have a bad time. This being said, MANPADs are kinda precious, because there your only answer to Shturmoviks zipping about.

I would like to have organic SPAAGs in my battalion. The main advantage of SPAAGs being that they can not just kill CAS, but also suppress it. But it seems that the world has kinda left SPAAGs behind. Love to see the LAV-AD, when they release USMC. Can IFV autocannons and AA MGs shoot at CAS?

I know many APCs carry a MANPAD, and I've seen pictures of them being shot by turned out crew/passengers. Can that be accomplished in CM? Turned out MANPAD dudes in a BTR/Stryker?

Edited September 5, 2018 by DerKommissar

[sburke]

Man something tells me I’d rather sit off to the side away from that afv.  Like painting a big bullseye on yourself and then hoping you can kill the bull before it gores you. 

[Splinty]

One thing that would improve the American AD situation would be Bradleys engaging helicopters. It is something they are equipped to do and it's doctrine as well. 

[Artkin]

I remember reading (Maybe on here?) that manpads were the most deadly anti air asset since theyre pretty much impossible to conduct SEAD against. 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Artkin

[DerKommissar]

19 hours ago, Splinty said:

One thing that would improve the American AD situation would be Bradleys engaging helicopters. It is something they are equipped to do and it's doctrine as well. 

Aye, nearly all IFVs are made with that, in mind. Linebackers would also be nice.

AA MGs are also mounted on many vehicles. Never saw them shooting up at helis.

16 hours ago, Artkin said:

I remember reading (Maybe on here?) that manpads were the most deadly anti air asset since theyre pretty much impossible to conduct SEAD against. 

Yeah, their IR passive guidance makes them very accurate, and virtually impossible to detect. Recent advances have increased their range and resistance to countermeasures. And they're pretty much mounted on everything, nowadays. Including helicopters!

This being said, AD was never really a focus of CM. And like any weapon, it is more effective when well networked, coordinated and supplemented by other tech.

I think it'd be cool if we got radar warnings for incoming air targets. Stealthier craft would be a boon. Also it'd be cool to have an abstracted Patriot or S-X00 defenses -- flying in from off-map. 

Edited September 6, 2018 by DerKommissar