Vostok-2018

[ikalugin]

https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Ftass.ru%2Farmiya-i-opk%2F5559825&edit-text=&act=url
Overview of the actual action, note how participating formations are represented by their subunits (ie - BTGs)

Kofman for the day-2
https://russianmilitaryanalysis.wordpress.com/2018/09/13/vostok-2018-day-2-september-12/

[Sublime]

Im surprised - of course I could just be completely ignorant of it - that Russias leaders arent more wary of contractors becoming a shadow army of sorts. I guess perhaps thats why theyre technically illegal.

I wonder how the PRC handles this - they have odd approaches (to western eyes) on mil matters, like militarizing their fishermen..

[ikalugin]

1 minute ago, Sublime said:

Do you think China will become a threat to its neighbors for example say in another 20 years? See for example the South China Sea..

I think that it would dominate the region, especially with it's naval build up (if you compare how much PLA-N gets in terms of tonnage it is greater than what USN gets from my understanding), provided things stay the way they are ofcourse. Which is one of the reason why they seek greater cooperation through SOC, with countries like Russia, Pakistan, India etc.

[Sublime]

also @ikalugin on the supposed US strikes on Wagner group troops several months back - is this getting any coverage in Russia? Or is it considered bs?

[ikalugin]

1 minute ago, Sublime said:

Im surprised - of course I could just be completely ignorant of it - that Russias leaders arent more wary of contractors becoming a shadow army of sorts. I guess perhaps thats why theyre technically illegal.

I wonder how the PRC handles this - they have odd approaches (to western eyes) on mil matters, like militarizing their fishermen..

They do not operate in Russia, plus the law in Russia is selectively enforced.

 

Just now, Sublime said:

also @ikalugin on the supposed US strikes on Wagner group troops several months back - is this getting any coverage in Russia? Or is it considered bs?

It was covered, however some sources (ie Strelkov) over inflated the numbers. Kofman had good coverage here:
https://russianmilitaryanalysis.wordpress.com/2018/02/14/u-s-strikes-and-russian-pmc-casualties-in-syria-fact-vs-fiction/

[Sublime]

you and the PRC guys better get more definitive border zones on your Siberian border - all Trump/Nixon comparisons aside if Putin calls Trump offering a massive nuke strike on PRC we may say yes this time

[ikalugin]

5 minutes ago, Sublime said:

you and the PRC guys better get more definitive border zones on your Siberian border - all Trump/Nixon comparisons aside if Putin calls Trump offering a massive nuke strike on PRC we may say yes this time

Actually the border was deconflicted for over a decade now, there are also trust building treaties like limits on the forces deployed in the border area, etc.

If anything there were several decades of consistent trust building and de-confliction with China, which was followed by joint organisations, exercises and now growing economic base.

Edited September 13, 2018 by ikalugin

[DerKommissar]

I'm happy to see that PLA is replacing their VAB-style 6x6s with a proper 8x8 platform. Looks like quite a platform too, so many different variants. A 155mm on a 8x8 APC chassis without supports? That suspension must be made of adamantium! It does look more roomy than the 82s, but also a bigger target.

I am curious what those specialist vehicles behind the TOS-1A were, with the two large boxes on the turret. Is that some kind of ammo carrier, or some sort of engineering vehicle? Never seen anything like it. Also, I'm impressed VDV has so many BMD-4s, on the initial video they only showed BMD-2s. Does the BMD-4 also drop crewed?

Yeah, it's surprising to see how far the SCO has come. I'll admit, I was a skeptic, myself.

[ikalugin]

33 minutes ago, DerKommissar said:

Does the BMD-4 also drop crewed?

Yes, the issue with the BMD-4M is that it is heavier/bulkier so it is hard to fit 2 per IL-76.

[BTR]

37 minutes ago, DerKommissar said:

I am curious what those specialist vehicles behind the TOS-1A were, with the two large boxes on the turret. Is that some kind of ammo carrier, or some sort of engineering vehicle?

I'm not sure what you are talking about, but it sounds like TZM-T ammo carrier for the TOS complex. 

[Rowdyhorse4]

41 minutes ago, DerKommissar said:

I'm happy to see that PLA is replacing their VAB-style 6x6s with a proper 8x8 platform. Looks like quite a platform too, so many different variants. A 155mm on a 8x8 APC chassis without supports? That suspension must be made of adamantium! It does look more roomy than the 82s, but also a bigger target.

ZBL 08s are pretty roomy and it is a modular design following trends for increased need for modularity in PLA....    Though i have not seen (nor heard off outside of western sources/mentioned in reliable Chinese sources) the 155mm Variant of the ZBL 08 Artillery....  only 122mm ZBL 08s (PLL 09s) and a 120mm mortar variant (Nona style) for indirect fire 

[ikalugin]

From the video's audio (did not verify):
- BMP2 of 60th det MR BDE
- BTR82A 40th det NI BDE
- BTR82A 155th det NI BDE
- AFV08 Chinese moto-infantry (unspecified)
- Type11 combat vehicles (unspecified)
- BMD2 11th det VDV BDE
- BMD4M 31st det VDV BDE
- T72B3 37th det MR BDE
- T72B3 36th det MR BDE
- T72B3 38th det MR BDE
- T72B3 212th MD training center
- Type99A2 (unspecified)
- Msta-S 30th art BDE of 36th Army
- Type07 SPG (unspecified)
- Type09 SPG (unspecified)
- Tornado-G 5th det tnk BDE
- TorM2U 5th det tnk BDE
- BukM2 35th AA BDE
- TOS1A and their transloaders from eastern MD (unit unspecified)
- Iskander-M 3rd missile BDE
- Iskander-M 107th missile BDE
- mil police and PLA wheeled vehicles

[BTR]

1 hour ago, DerKommissar said:

Also, I'm impressed VDV has so many BMD-4s. 

As of beginning of 2018 we had 182 BMD-4Ms delivered in five line battalions and two training companies and 92 BTR-MDMs (includes MDM based vehicles) in five line battalions and one training company. Further 132 BMD-4Ms with 58 BTR-MDMs have been ordered with delivery until 2020. That should cover VDV para formations completely. 

[ikalugin]

https://riafan.ru/818094-brigada-pvo-na-dalnem-vostoke-poluchila-noveishie-kompleksy-buk-m3
http://dfnc.ru/c106-technika/zenitno-raketnaya-brigada-zapadnogo-voennogo-okruga-nachala-perevooruzhenie-na-novye-zrk-buk-m3/
Note that for some reason Buk-M3s are fairly shy and are not shown on the parrade.

[DerKommissar]

3 hours ago, BTR said:

I'm not sure what you are talking about, but it sounds like TZM-T ammo carrier for the TOS complex. 

You are correct, that was exactly what I was talking about. 

ERA on my TOS? What's going on?

3 hours ago, Rowdyhorse4 said:

ZBL 08s are pretty roomy and it is a modular design following trends for increased need for modularity in PLA....    Though i have not seen (nor heard off outside of western sources/mentioned in reliable Chinese sources) the 155mm Variant of the ZBL 08 Artillery....  only 122mm ZBL 08s (PLL 09s) and a 120mm mortar variant (Nona style) for indirect fire 

Welcome to the forums! I think I saw Wiki mention the 155 version which blew my mind. 122mm seems more practical. The 08 also looks more armoured than the 82... do you know what level of protection it has?

3 hours ago, ikalugin said:

Yes, the issue with the BMD-4M is that it is heavier/bulkier so it is hard to fit 2 per IL-76.

One thing I felt omitted from CM:BS was the VDV (as well as the USMC). BMD series is very unique in its concept and I always like playing with them. I noticed the VDV squads bounding with the PKP.

Most NATO countries roll with the FN Minimi (or a variant) as the squad AR and FN MAG (or a variant) as the GPMG. As of late, many countries are trying to supplement/replace the AR concept, and by extension the Minimi, with modified service rifles intended for rapid fire. Brits call it LSW, Yanks call it IAR. The trend is that mag-fed is better than belt for a squad, and interchangeable parts are good.

The Soviets actually introduced this concept 20 years before the LSW or IAR with the RPK. So, they had the RPK as the squad AR and PKM as the GPMG for a long time. Now, the PKP is seen in the hands of squads around the world. What's the concept behind the PKP? Is it a squad AR? Is it a GPMG? Is it meant to replace either the RPK or PKM?

How can it? PKM is a better GPMG with changeable barrel and ubiquitous mountings on vehicles. RPK makes sense as a squad AR for the same reason as LSW or IAR. Is it just to complement? What can it do that the RPK and PKM can't?

[BTR]

6 minutes ago, DerKommissar said:

ERA on my TOS? What's going on?

Standard issued stuff. All TOS-1A built on T-90 chassis have this, export and domestic. Most of domestic TOS fleet is T-72A based however, which is why you have more pics like these -

Instead of these -

 

[ikalugin]

BTG on BMD-2s being loaded. The paradrop was used to cut off the escape of the BLUEFOR after the REDFOR counter offensive began.

[DMS]

Just now, DerKommissar said:

The Soviets actually introduced this concept 20 years before the LSW or IAR with the RPK. So, they had the RPK as the squad AR and PKM as the GPMG for a long time. Now, the PKP is seen in the hands of squads around the world. What's the concept behind the PKP? Is it a squad AR? Is it a GPMG? Is it meant to replace either the RPK or PKM?

How can it? PKM is a better GPMG with changeable barrel and ubiquitous mountings on vehicles. RPK makes sense as a squad AR for the same reason as LSW or IAR. Is it just to complement? What can it do that the RPK and PKM can't?

PKP doesn't need changeagle barrel. Because of better cooling and heavier barrel. It can make 600 shots, while PKM could 400.

RPK is considered as "AK with larger magazine". RPK isn't IAR, it has the same accuracy as AK in general.

[Peter Cairns]

Just watched this summary; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8ec7Wohdt0

is it just me or is everything Chinese, more advanced modern and in better condition than Russia's?

Peter.

[ikalugin]

3 minutes ago, Peter Cairns said:

Just watched this summary; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8ec7Wohdt0

is it just me or is everything Chinese, more advanced modern and in better condition than Russia's?

Peter.

In some ways this is true, Chinese have deployed their top of the line Ground Forces with the new Type99a2 tanks and other modern AFVs while the bulk of our Eastern MD uses older equipment, such as the T72B with K1 era. Central MD on the other hand had fairly modern T72B3 tanks etc.

However:
- PLA was using older fixed wing aircraft (we have deployed new production Su35S and Su34).
- we have deployed some new systems, mainly SAMs, such as S-400, Buk-M2, Tor-M2U and so on.

[DerKommissar]

1 hour ago, BTR said:

Standard issued stuff. All TOS-1A built on T-90 chassis have this, export and domestic. Most of domestic TOS fleet is T-72A based however, which is why you have more pics like these -

I thought the 72 chassis was an overkill for an MLRS. A T-90 chassis for MLRS? Wouldn't it serve better as a gun tank?

33 minutes ago, DMS said:

PKP doesn't need changeagle barrel. Because of better cooling and heavier barrel. It can make 600 shots, while PKM could 400.

RPK is considered as "AK with larger magazine". RPK isn't IAR, it has the same accuracy as AK in general.

So the PKP replacing the PKM, and not the RPK? 

I was not aware that the IAR was significantly more accurate than the M4. I just remember that it had a better mean time between failures. Makes it more appropriate for rapid fire.

10 minutes ago, Peter Cairns said:

is it just me or is everything Chinese, more advanced modern and in better condition than Russia's?

Oh, most certainly. They really put on their Sunday's best for this occasion. I wasn't even aware of the 8x8 -- let alone all the various modules available. It all looks fresh off the production line. Only thing that looked remotely cold war were the JH-7s. One of the last fighter-bomber breeds, it's still a perfectly serviceable plane.

Sadly no sight of BMP-3Ms, T-80BVM or even T-90s. I did catch a glimpse of a T-72B3 obr. 2016. But way more T-72BVs, which I haven't seen in a while. BMP-2s are still kicking it seems. Also saw a troop or two of Shilkas. All these relics look clean, functional and ready to rock, it looks to me. Which makes this look less like a glorified dress rehearsal and an actual military training exercise. 

[ikalugin]

7 minutes ago, DerKommissar said:

Oh, most certainly. They really put on their Sunday's best for this occasion. I wasn't even aware of the 8x8 -- let alone all the various modules available. It all looks fresh off the production line. Only thing that looked remotely cold war were the JH-7s. One of the last fighter-bomber breeds, it's still a perfectly serviceable plane.

Chinese servicement claimed that they got those recently and only had one year to train with the new gear.

 

7 minutes ago, DerKommissar said:

Sadly no sight of BMP-3Ms, T-80BVM or even T-90s. I did catch a glimpse of a T-72B3 obr. 2016. But way more T-72BVs, which I haven't seen in a while. BMP-2s are still kicking it seems. Also saw a troop or two of Shilkas. All these relics look clean, functional and ready to rock, it looks to me. Which makes this look less like a glorified dress rehearsal and an actual military training exercise. 

That is Eastern MD for you, they have the least priority in terms of AFVs. They did however have the Tor-M2U and other modern SAM systems.

Edited September 13, 2018 by ikalugin

[ikalugin]

https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Ftvzvezda.ru%2Fnews%2Fforces%2Fcontent%2F201809131431-mil-ru-ws6ta.html&edit-text=
Interesting to see the MFZ being used in those exercises.

Also, where is Steve?

[Sublime]

the TOS does seem to be a very popular weapons system.. I certainly think it.s a "cool" sounsing tank, but since Im American it all sounds pretty bad since in the unlikely event I ever do get shot at with heavy Russian equipment it would be in a WW3 scenario where TOS' would be the weapons of nightmares.

 

Its basically a T72 with a MLRS on top that shoots FAB rockets right?

[Artkin]

Russia sure is impressive flaunting their BMP-2's