Mine flails

[Trasher]

So this isn't really too important to the game but I ran a test in the editor and found that the mine flail on the Sherman tank doesnt kill infantry, and while this isn't game breaking (or even necessary) a mine flail should still kill any infantry it hits. Is there a game engine reason for this or is it purely a design decision?

Edited August 4, 2018 by Trasher

[Mord]

It probably has to do with path finding issues and abstractions, tanks can't even crush infantry or anything else for that matter. It's probably a logistical nightmare coding wise when you have a couple hundred guys surrounded by vehicles all on the move. If you noticed, dead vehicles don't block vehicle traffic either. It's either a limitation of the engine or a design decision, either way it's not ideal. Unfortunately we still have to live with abstractions, just much, much less than the old days.

 

Mord.

[LongLeftFlank]

Sorry, trying not to troll here, but in RL can't men scramble out of the way of those devices pretty easily? I mean, a 280mm AVRE spigot mortar, sure, concussion alone would cause lethal hemorrhaging. But death by steamroller?

 

Edited August 4, 2018 by LongLeftFlank

[Trasher]

11 hours ago, Mord said:

It probably has to do with path finding issues and abstractions, tanks can't even crush infantry or anything else for that matter. It's probably a logistical nightmare coding wise when you have a couple hundred guys surrounded by vehicles all on the move. If you noticed, dead vehicles don't block vehicle traffic either. It's either a limitation of the engine or a design decision, either way it's not ideal. Unfortunately we still have to live with abstractions, just much, much less than the old days.

I think you're right, and thankfully it really isn't important to the game, blocking traffic with destroyed vehicles however will hopefully be something we get to see one day.

[Trasher]

5 hours ago, LongLeftFlank said:

Sorry, trying not to troll here, but in RL can't men scramble out of the way of those devices pretty easily? I mean, a 280mm AVRE spigot mortar, sure, concussion alone would cause lethal hemorrhaging. But death by steamroller?

I'm sure its fairly easy to avoid, especially because the Sherman only travels at 5mph with the flail in operation

[IICptMillerII]

18 hours ago, Mord said:

If you noticed, dead vehicles don't block vehicle traffic either.

I thought dead vehicles did block traffic? I know they don’t block friendly line of sight or fires, but I thought that in order to move past a destroyed vehicle another vehicle has to slowly merge through the destroyed one, simulating the hulk being pushed out of the way. 

[IanL]

27 minutes ago, IICptMillerII said:

I thought dead vehicles did block traffic? I know they don’t block friendly line of sight or fires, but I thought that in order to move past a destroyed vehicle another vehicle has to slowly merge through the destroyed one, simulating the hulk being pushed out of the way. 

I think @IICptMillerII is correct. I am certain that I have had a railway bridge blocked by a destroyed tank

 

[Mord]

That's what I mean. That isn't blocking you. In CM1 you actually had to physically push the vehicle (if your vehicle was big enough) out of the way. If all you had was a halftrack and a tiger was knocked out on a bridge, you probably weren't gonna get by. Now, you just merge through anything that is knocked out. It's an abstraction.

EDITED: I'll go give it a test and see what happens. It may be different if it's an enemy vehicle.

Mord.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Mord

[IICptMillerII]

Just now, IanL said:

I think @IICptMillerII is correct. I am certain that I have had a railway bridge blocked by a destroyed tank

 

I think I remember reading about it in the engine manual. Unfortunately I don’t have access to the engine manual right now, but I’m sure someone interested could check. 

 

Just now, Mord said:

That's what I mean. That isn't blocking you. In CM1 you actually had to physically push the vehicle (if your vehicle was big enough) out of the way. If all you had was a halftrack and a tiger was knocked out on a bridge, you probably weren't gonna get by. Now, you just merge through anything that is knocked out. It's an abstraction.

 

Mord.

Ahh ok I didn’t know that. Never played CMx1

[Mord]

Here ya go. This illustrates what I mean.

 

I mean, it is what is at this point. Been that way for at least 7 years, but more likely 11. I never bothered to try it in SF.

 

Mord.

[sburke]

13 hours ago, LongLeftFlank said:

Sorry, trying not to troll here, but in RL can't men scramble out of the way of those devices pretty easily? I mean, a 280mm AVRE spigot mortar, sure, concussion alone would cause lethal hemorrhaging. But death by steamroller?

 

Ahh but you forgot the moment my pixeltrooper twists his ankle and falls to the ground crying out as the flail continues approaching and in his fear he neglects to realize he could likely crawl out of the way....

[IICptMillerII]

26 minutes ago, sburke said:

Ahh but you forgot the moment my pixeltrooper twists his ankle and falls to the ground crying out as the flail continues approaching and in his fear he neglects to realize he could likely crawl out of the way....

 

[Mord]

14 hours ago, LongLeftFlank said:

Sorry, trying not to troll here, but in RL can't men scramble out of the way of those devices pretty easily?

Of course, but my point was that in CM2 they don't. It's all abstracted. Just laying there while a tank rolls over them is supposed to represent them scrambling and not being crushed. LOL It doesn't work visually whatsoever. The best you can do reality wise is avoid the situation, if you can.

 

 

Mord.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Mord

[Warts 'n' all]

I suppose BFC can't win either way. If we all have to spend ages every Command Phase making sure that our infantry don's share an AS with our tanks, there would be a lot of moaning. 

[Mord]

Well, that's what I was saying in my first response, probably just too many bodies to create that kind of fidelity. Ideally the troops getting up and displacing would be the happy medium between modeling them being squashed or what we see in the pic. But again, most likely that is a coding nightmare. It was easy to do in CM1 because 12 guys were abstracted into three and they were considered spread out over a 20mX20m area. They could just move a little bit out of the way and all was good.

 

Mord.

[StieliAlpha]

On 8/5/2018 at 12:15 AM, Warts 'n' all said:

I suppose BFC can't win either way. If we all have to spend ages every Command Phase making sure that our infantry don's share an AS with our tanks, there would be a lot of moaning. 

I remember the good old „Commandos“, where vehicles could over-run troops. But that looked sort of stupid, too. The Commando crawling to cross a road, truck approaching from the right at walking speed and „bang“. Or better „crush“?

[JonS]

On 8/5/2018 at 9:28 AM, sburke said:

Ahh but you forgot the moment my pixeltrooper twists his ankle and falls to the ground crying out as the flail continues approaching and in his fear he neglects to realize he could likely crawl out of the way....

Aka, “the Prometheus syndrome”

[Sequoia]

Are there any scenarios that have the flail tank?

Thanks

 

[JonS]

Yes, there are. “Seven winds” for one.

[Erwin]

Blimey.  I recall how so many folks were calling for flail tanks and there are hardly any scenarios that features them, and it's rare one even hears about them in the game?!!  Am gobsmacked.  (Sad how all those folks have moved on to demand other "fun" stuff that presumably will be forgotten about/ignored as soon as BF produces the feature/unit.  For BF it must be like dealing with short-attention span children.)   

[Warts 'n' all]

Give "The Lions of Carpiquet" campaign a go. I love it when my Sherman Crabs do their thing.

[MOS:96B2P]

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Hope these can be converted into mine-rollers for CM:RT, CM:BS & CM:SF2. 

[IICptMillerII]

On 8/14/2018 at 12:13 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Hope these can be converted into mine-rollers for CM:RT, CM:BS & CM:SF2. 

I really hope we get a vehicle pack for the modern titles at some point that adds engineering vehicles. At the least, mine rollers/plows for Abrams and T series tanks. Would love to see more complex vehicles as well, such as a MICLIC launcher, but I think that is much more of a stretch. 

[DerKommissar]

18 hours ago, IICptMillerII said:

I really hope we get a vehicle pack for the modern titles at some point that adds engineering vehicles. At the least, mine rollers/plows for Abrams and T series tanks. Would love to see more complex vehicles as well, such as a MICLIC launcher, but I think that is much more of a stretch. 

My man, you hit the nail on the head. Recently, I lost a lot of modern and ww2 vehicles to mines while attacking. Infantry identify a mine, and I try to circumvent it with my vehicles. Even going backwards -- boom! Nothing I can do.

There are so many tools that both WW2 and modern armies have for breaching minefields, and other obstructions. I've seen line charges even being used by the SAA. Vehicle packs with combat engineering vehicles would be worth their weight in gold.