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CMSF2 New Belligerent ?


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1 minute ago, Sequoia said:

I think there would be good interest in that, but the vibe I get is that Battlefront is adverse into making "sandbox" expansions.

I don't think it is entirely out of the question- they do vehicle packs, why not soldier packs?  Part of the issue is BF has always insisted that CMSF was not about the Syrian occupation, but rather just the invasion and they weren't real interested in the whole insurgency war.  That is something that is subject to change, but it would have to fit within the priorities they may have already decided upon and the cost value they see in this kind of thing.  Personally I would love it. A Muj pack would really enhance Afghanistan oriented scenarios. An African insurgent pack would open up whole new vistas for the war on terror concept.  Considering this is what the US has been fighting for almost 2 decades …..  that is just my 2 cents subject to inflation, devaluation of the Chinese yen and Iranian rial and removal of the gold standard post zombie apocalypse - I.e. worthless

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56 minutes ago, sburke said:

I don't think it is entirely out of the question- they do vehicle packs, why not soldier packs? 

That's my thought, at least as far as Muj go because:

1.) The TO&E structure could be pulled from SF2 Uncons/Fighters and tweaked to fit the specific forces.

2.) We'd only need about three or four unique soldier models. Like in CMA.

3.) What vehicles they would use are already in SF2. No need to create a bunch of new models like you would if it was say, the French army or something.

4.) It would take far less time than creating a module.

5.) It would be a great experiment to see if customers would go for something like this. After all the vehicle pack and 1st scenario pack were all testing the waters when they were released.

 

 

56 minutes ago, sburke said:

they weren't real interested in the whole insurgency war. 

The funny thing is, look at just how many scenarios that were created based exactly on that. And a lot of them have proven it's damn good fun. I never understood the stubbornness regarding that. Three of our last four wars were basically centered around it. So, it's not like it is unrealistic. And it's there in the game already, it just needs to be a little less confining to make it all it could be.

 

Mord.

 

P.S. Do I sound desperate?

 

Edited by Mord
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22 minutes ago, Sequoia said:

One thing I note from CMA is the buildings have fewer windows. I assume that's accurate for the 80's and perhaps still is. Still it wouldn't be hard to do to throw a few  in I would think.

Huh? You lost me on that one.

 

Mord.

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Maybe it's just me and I've only played the demo, but I recall the buildings in CM:Afghanistan had fewer windows than the ones in CMSF. I assumed that was accurate for the setting. 

P.S. And I meant throw a few Afghan style buildings into this potential pack.

 

Edited by Sequoia
P.S.
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16 minutes ago, Sequoia said:

Maybe it's just me and I've only played the demo, but I recall the buildings in CM:Afghanistan had fewer windows than the ones in CMSF. I assumed that was accurate for the setting. 

P.S. And I meant throw a few Afghan style buildings into this potential pack.

 

you can alter the number of windows now.

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3 hours ago, sburke said:

A Muj pack would really enhance Afghanistan oriented scenarios. An African insurgent pack would open up whole new vistas for the war on terror concept.  Considering this is what the US has been fighting for almost 2 decades ….. 

YES!!! This!!

Maybe BFC could put independent buildings into any CMSF2 pack also. 

In the editor in CMBS you can change modular building roofs between flat and sloped.  I hope this ability is added to CMSF2 and CMFI.  Especially CMFI since flat roofs would facilitate North Africa scenarios.     

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Now that my, perhaps in reality inaccurate, fewer windows problem has turned out not to be a problem, I want to ask, especially to those who may actually have been there, are there any unique Afghan style buildings really needed? There's a photo of a "grape hut" in another thread. Are those common?

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13 hours ago, sburke said:

I don't think it is entirely out of the question- they do vehicle packs, why not soldier packs?  Part of the issue is BF has always insisted that CMSF was not about the Syrian occupation, but rather just the invasion and they weren't real interested in the whole insurgency war.  That is something that is subject to change, but it would have to fit within the priorities they may have already decided upon and the cost value they see in this kind of thing.  Personally I would love it. A Muj pack would really enhance Afghanistan oriented scenarios. An African insurgent pack would open up whole new vistas for the war on terror concept.  Considering this is what the US has been fighting for almost 2 decades …..  that is just my 2 cents subject to inflation, devaluation of the Chinese yen and Iranian rial and removal of the gold standard post zombie apocalypse - I.e. worthless

This is a great idea.  It's kinda what I was suggesting for a N Africa DAK Pak module for CMFI a few weeks ago.  And "DAK Pak" just rolls off the tongue beautifully - so good marketing already inherent.

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I've been quietly hoping for MORE UNCONS GODDAMMIT for some time now.  ;)

A full price module that covered all the games would be a pack full of awesomeness in my opinion.....

FFI and various resistance organisations etc. for CM:BN & CM:FB

Assorted Partisans for CM:FI & CM:RT

Militants & Militias for CB:BS & CM:SF 2

The unique capabilities of these units would vastly expand the scope of the game.  B)

18 hours ago, sburke said:

you can alter the number of windows now.

You could always do this.....In the editor go into preview mode and CTRL+Click on the face of the building you want to modify, with cunning use of ALT+CTRL+Click you can make some pretty cool looking modular buildings, even in the older games (& even if I do say it myself): 

pDSRbvw.jpg

cn4Nko5.jpg

flCVH6q.jpg

PS - These pictures don't have any 'Flavour Objects' yet.....These can add a lot of, well, flavour to a map, and they offer the scenario designer the chance to script his scenarios in a slightly more involved fashion.

See @MOS:96B2P's epic CM:BS Tactical Operations Centre for a fine example of this technique:

Make sure you read the briefing very, very carefully:)

19 hours ago, Mord said:

1.) The TO&E structure could be pulled from SF2 Uncons/Fighters and tweaked to fit the specific forces.

Please god.....No!  :unsure:

The Uncons in CM:SF don't have a unit structure beyond the 'Group' (Platoon) and we've learnt in the intervening years that these groups are a lot better organised than that.....The CM:A 'Islamic Battalion' or 'Tribal Militia Command' would make an infinitely better starting point.

There is actually a valid reason for my still liking CM:A you know.....Barring a few odd quirks it's massively better than CM:SF, especially if you like Uncons.

I just hope that BF have given the Uncons a better command structure in CM:SF 2, otherwise CM:A will still be the best game in the series for Uncon warfare (especially HTH).

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead
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3 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

The Uncons in CM:SF don't have a unit structure beyond the 'Group' (Platoon) and we've learnt in the intervening years that these groups are a lot better organised than that.....The CM:A 'Islamic Battalion' or 'Tribal Militia Command' would make an infinitely better starting point.  

Uncons in CMSF1 are very cool.  An Uncon battalion grouping would make them even better and provide a command structure to decapitate.  As a work around, since I don't expect BFC to create Uncon battalions for CMSF2,  maybe an existing OpFor battalion could have the conventional platoons removed and replaced with Uncon specialist teams in the editor/purchase screen.  (If we get specialist teams for Uncons.)  We'll have to wait and see.   +1 

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12 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

Uncons in CMSF1 are very cool.  An Uncon battalion grouping would make them even better and provide a command structure to decapitate.  As a work around, since I don't expect BFC to create Uncon battalions for CMSF2,  maybe an existing OpFor battalion could have the conventional platoons removed and replaced with Uncon specialist teams in the editor/purchase screen.  (If we get specialist teams for Uncons.)  We'll have to wait and see.   +1 

I honestly don't know how it will appear in it's final form, but formations are how one assigns groups in CM and the formations of the uncons were put in a particular way in CMSF.  CMSF did not have an option for specialist teams so that will be new in CMSF2.  The extent of those specialists teams will need to be decided by BF, but I would not expect I'd be able to really fill out a formation by taking for example a Syrian Special forces BN and gutting everything but the HQs then assigning specialist teams from the uncons.  Specialist teams are generally just what they say - scouts, breach teams and heavy weapons units.  You would be stripping out all the small arms teams.  It would be cool if you could assign formations to other formation HQs, but that isn't possible in any CM title.

In answer to your question yeah there are specialist teams but I don't know for sure what the limits will be.  My assumption would be that fundamentally uncons in CMSF2 would not be all that much different than CMSF.  Again insurgents while included in CMSF were never intended to represent anything like what we have seen more currently.  No matter how much folks want this to be ISIL- it isn't.  Think of them more as the Sadr brigade in Sadr city.  Various groups both criminal and political with divergent views working in an umbrella for the sake of convenience.  There is no Battalion level organization (especially in combat) and trying to draw comparisons to other conflicts or timelines is a complete dead end. The closest they come to coordination is the Minaret speakers shouting Jihad!  Jihad!

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14 minutes ago, sburke said:

Specialist teams are generally just what they say - scouts, breach teams and heavy weapons units.  

In answer to your question yeah there are specialist teams but I don't know for sure what the limits will be. 

Think of them more as the Sadr brigade in Sadr city.  

This is good.  A lot of cool stuff can be done with this.  From a Syrian infantry company: 1st platoon leader is the bomb maker and has trigger men and VBIEDs assigned to him.  2nd platoon is intelligence and has several spy teams assigned, 3rd platoon leader controls the death squads with scouts, breach teams, RPG teams etc., 4th platoon leader has the technicals.  They work for the company commander who is renamed The Murderer of Mosul.  Or something along these lines............. :D :lol:.   

Thanks for the information.  +1  

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41 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

This is good.  A lot of cool stuff can be done with this.  From a Syrian infantry company: 1st platoon leader is the bomb maker and has trigger men and VBIEDs assigned to him.  2nd platoon is intelligence and has several spy teams assigned, 3rd platoon leader controls the death squads with scouts, breach teams, RPG teams etc., 4th platoon leader has the technicals.  They work for the company commander who is renamed The Murderer of Mosul.  Or something along these lines............. :D :lol:.   

Thanks for the information.  +1  

^^^This^^^

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1 hour ago, MOS:96B2P said:

This is good.  A lot of cool stuff can be done with this.  From a Syrian infantry company: 1st platoon leader is the bomb maker and has trigger men and VBIEDs assigned to him.  2nd platoon is intelligence and has several spy teams assigned, 3rd platoon leader controls the death squads with scouts, breach teams, RPG teams etc., 4th platoon leader has the technicals.  They work for the company commander who is renamed The Murderer of Mosul.  Or something along these lines............. :D :lol:.   

Thanks for the information.  +1  

You are already assuming too much.  I have no idea what the specialist teams will be, but uncons even in their formations do not include breach teams, scouts etc.  That was a general reference. 

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22 minutes ago, sburke said:

You are already assuming too much.  I have no idea what the specialist teams will be, but uncons even in their formations do not include breach teams, scouts etc.  That was a general reference. 

No worries.  As long as BFC includes Uncon specialist teams they will be dudes that have the Uncon look and they will have weapons.  Whatever they are named in the editor, scout team or small team or something else they can be plugged into the TO, renamed and made to work. :)    

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32 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

No worries.  As long as BFC includes Uncon specialist teams they will be dudes that have the Uncon look and they will have weapons.  Whatever they are named in the editor, scout team or small team or something else they can be plugged into the TO, renamed and made to work. :)    

true, I just don't know what options for what they will be equipped with.

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Wow, aren't you just *full* of Cheery Waffle(R) these days, SB!  Got me slitting my wrists here (metaphorically).😵

At this point I'm starting to wonder whether a mod of CMBS might not end up having better potential for simming modern asymmetric infantry warfare than the SF reboot. Heck, we few Uncon deplorables could have pulled that one together years ago. And yes, with IEDs. Maybe even suicide belts.

And we could get Russians and Syrians/Iraqis (modded Ukes) fighting ISIS/Chechens in a 2018 setting too.

*With* all the building options! 😣

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