Jump to content

First try at a scenario: questions


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Holdit said:

Then I created an AI plan (the only one) that would trigger when the exit zone was touched by a U.S. unit. When I tested it, though, I could never get more than one German group to head for the bridge; the rest just sit there in their starting locations doing nothing. The trigger was set correctly and to be activated any time between 00:00 and 40:00. I've tried this a number of times but always got the same result. Either no groups move or only one does.  I also have an problem whereby the "Wait for" option often doesn't show, and neither does the time limits for starting/ending the order.

There are so many things it could be it would almost be easier if I could look at it in the editor.  First I'm assuming you are using Terrain Objective Triggers and not Orders Triggers.  Also I'm guessing your problem is where you can't see the "wait for" and time limits.  In the below steps you can see the "wait for" and time limits can effect the trigger.   The below must be done with every AI group [A2] [A3] etc. that you want to respond to the trigger.  They can all use the same trigger, no problem.  The way you have the time, up above, they should move when the trigger is touched or 40 minutes into the scenario.  Really need more detail to give a more detailed answer, my friend.  I hope the below helps.   

Edit to add: Just noticed something, the wait for time would be 00:40:00 to make the unit wait until 40 minutes into the scenario if not triggered earlier.    

1) In Units assign the AI units to groups. (CTRL and F key)

2) In Missions – Terrain Objectives: paint a terrain objective trigger.

    Select type of trigger.

    Name the terrain objective trigger.     

3) In AI select the plan and the Group you want to be triggered.

    Paint a setup zone unless you want the unit to deploy in the exact same location every game.

    Click Add to add orders. (A unit can be triggered from its setup location however setup is not the

    trigger. In this case order #2 would be the trigger (setup is not an order but does take the place of

    order #1)).

    Click Can Trigger to the destination order (units can be triggered to move here)

    Paint the area on the map you want the unit to move to or shoot at when triggered.  

    Make selections in the four categories of orders.

    Go back to the previous order/setup and click Wait For.

    A window with a dropdown will appear. 

    Click on desired trigger and click OK.

    Check the times on the Wait For order. The exit time should be set to zero (00:00:00).

    If you only want the unit to be triggered and never use the timer set the “….and” to a time past the   

    end of the mission.

4) Click Save.

Example: Exit between 00:00:00 Wait For (name of assigned trigger)

                …and            xx:xx:xx  If not triggered first this is the time the unit will move.

Edited by MOS:96B2P
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 69
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

@Holdit- This is completed now.  The TPGII webmaster and I discovered that "No plan survives contact with the enemy" in scenario design either.  The Proving Grounds II does not effectively support a v

There are so many things it could be it would almost be easier if I could look at it in the editor.  First I'm assuming you are using Terrain Objective Triggers and not Orders Triggers.  Also I'm gues

@IanL Whenever is soon enough.  My intent is to build a "Scenario Designer Workshop" area on the TPGII Forum pages.  While I have a bunch of references to organize and post initially, the vision

Posted Images

17 hours ago, Holdit said:


I'm at the point in a scenario where I'm setting up the victory conditions and AI plans.   The Allied force, U.S. Airborne approaching from the northwest and northeast, has to exit off a road on the south edge of the map so it can secure an important bridge (off-map). The German forces are more or less in the centre of the map.

Sounds interesting.

Quote

The first question is pretty simple; how do I set up different starting locations for units, particularly defenders? I thought that the different AI plans would take care of this, but they only appear to concern actions, rather than positioning. Is it even possible to have AI defenders in a variety of defensive setups?

It is possible. When you are in the units screen and you select deploy red or deploy blue that positioning is used if the chosen AI plan has no setup areas defined. As @Sgt.Squarehead suggested the AI plan way of defining the setup offers less control on the exact positioning so I would recommend that the default deployment be used by one of your AI plans. For the other AI plans paint an area on the map for the setup order for each AI group. Once the game starts the units from that group will setup in the area you defined facing the enemy map direction subject to terrain. You can control how that happens by controlling the size of the setup area you create and the number of troops in the AI group.

Note: the AI group's setup deployment will only be evident after the player's setup is done. So, if you start the game in scenario author test mode when you are deploying the player controlled side the positions of the AI units will start off in their manually deployed default positions until you press the BRB. Then the AI controlled units will jump to their setup positions.

 

Quote

The second question is more complicated. The original ASL scenario's victory conditions state that the Americans win if they exit 1 or more squads at that point, but that if the German player exits y squads from the same point, then the American player must exit y + .5 squads. My first thought was to simply discard that part of it and just make the fight for a couple of key points in the village and near the bridge exit, but from my reading I reckon I could have the exit point as a trigger that would start the Germans falling back toward the bridge when the first U.S. unit touched it. This might make for a more interesting fight, with the Germans "realising" that the Americans have got through or around them, and displacing to bolster the bridge's defences, and the American player needing to decide which forces to exit and which to leave as a rearguard/exit block to prevent the German player from getting his forces off. It could even play out as a running gunfight with multiple units from both sides head for the exit at the same time.

I think what you want - triggered withdrawal of the Germans to also exit the map should be possible. I don't see anything from your post that is obviously wrong. Hopefully some of @MOS:96B2P's advice will help you get it working.

Edited by IanL
Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I also have an problem whereby the "Wait for" option often doesn't show, and neither does the time limits for starting/ending the order.

Timed movement orders don't apply to the *last orders* in the chain because there's nothing to be done after. That means in order to get the 'Wait for' movement times selections there has to be another order after the one you're working on. You'll get your 'Wait for' options on all the movement orders except the last.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

Timed movement orders don't apply to the *last orders* in the chain because there's nothing to be done after. That means in order to get the 'Wait for' movement times selections there has to be another order after the one you're working on. You'll get your 'Wait for' options on all the movement orders except the last.

IIRC the game manual gives just this example.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Many thanks to all for your suggestions. The last order solution rings a bell and I'd say that is indeed where I'm going wrong. I'll dive in again and have a poke around. If I can get this working over the next few days the scenario should be ready for testing before the weekend.

There are a few other kinks to iron out, like why the Germans will head for the exit but not actually exit this but that's probably something simple I overlooked. Whatever the cause, it was interesting watching it play out and having the Germans end up like this... 

bloodyLane.jpg.5234c5887445a379a3f8ec2fa650a129.jpg

It reminded me of the Bloody Lane at Antietam.

Hero of this particular playtest was the soldier who showed what can be achieved with a Thompson and a nice bit of cover. He was the only one covering that hedgerow. That's got to be worth a gong...

thommygunner.jpg.90c33f5bf695ddad6252c91b329937d4.jpg

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, the 'Pixeltruppen-Zombie-March-Of-Death'.....The stuff of scenario design nightmares!  ;)

Bear with it, eventually you'll get the little swine to do what you want, you've already got 'em moving, so it's all just a matter of trial & error now.

PS - Don't be afraid to tweak your map to do the AI pixeltruppen a few favours (don't do this for scenarios with a 2p HtH option) .

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead
Link to post
Share on other sites

The battle of Normandy was stalemated for months because of difficulty making progress through those darned hedgerows. I mention this to stress that CMBN hedgrerow maps are notorious man-killers. This places an extra burden on the scenario AI designer. Formulating AI plans in an environment that even competent human players struggle to survive in.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am right now constructing an 'offensive' AI orders set across difficult terrain, myself. It is tough - really tough. But if it was easy it wouldn't be fun! ^_^ Defensive AI orders are simple, offensive orders you need to plan your AI movements as carefully as if you were live-playing the scenario.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/12/2019 at 1:35 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Ah, the 'Pixeltruppen-Zombie-March-Of-Death'.....The stuff of scenario design nightmares!  ;)

Bear with it, eventually you'll get the little swine to do what you want, you've already got 'em moving, so it's all just a matter of trial & error now.

PS - Don't be afraid to tweak your map to do the AI pixeltruppen a few favours (don't do this for scenarios with a 2p HtH option) .

I have this working now. The problem was that the game seems to treat the triggered terrain objective as an "occupy" objective - so the pixeltruppen obediently make for the zone..and just stay there. The fix was to create a new exit zone as a smaller zone within the trigger zone and adjust the relevant AI order accordingly. I still had two straggler teams hanging around and I'm not sure why, but I wonder if it might be connected to the fact that all HQs had exited before could. More testing required but if only one squad out of 10 is giving trouble, I can live with it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/11/2019 at 2:51 PM, IanL said:

It is possible. When you are in the units screen and you select deploy red or deploy blue that positioning is used if the chosen AI plan has no setup areas defined. As @Sgt.Squarehead suggested the AI plan way of defining the setup offers less control on the exact positioning so I would recommend that the default deployment be used by one of your AI plans. For the other AI plans paint an area on the map for the setup order for each AI group. Once the game starts the units from that group will setup in the area you defined facing the enemy map direction subject to terrain. You can control how that happens by controlling the size of the setup area you create and the number of troops in the AI group.

Note: the AI group's setup deployment will only be evident after the player's setup is done. So, if you start the game in scenario author test mode when you are deploying the player controlled side the positions of the AI units will start off in their manually deployed default positions until you press the BRB. Then the AI controlled units will jump to their setup positions.

This was a big help, and I can even flesh it out a bit after some trial and error.

When you paint the AI setup areas, the AI will only set up on those parts of the AI setup area that overlap with the standard setup zones already painted on the map. So if you paint, for example, a small wood as an AI setup zone and that wood isn't included in the default setup zones, the AI won't use it. This is actually a plus if you want the AI to set up in particular locations. You paint those locations as default setup locations, and then the general area as an AI setup location. Now when the AI deploys, it will deploy only in those locations. A nice feature also is that the AI will setup slightly differently each time. The only downside is that if the AI setup area is too large, HQ units can find themselves off on a far flank, since the AI doesn't seem to consider effective HQ unit placement.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Holdit said:

When you paint the AI setup areas, the AI will only set up on those parts of the AI setup area that overlap with the standard setup zones already painted on the map. So if you paint, for example, a small wood as an AI setup zone and that wood isn't included in the default setup zones, the AI won't use it. 

No, my friend, they don't need to overlap.  If I understand what you are saying.  You can have an AI setup zone with no standard setup zone on the map at all.  The standard setup zone is for the use of a human player.  In Human vs AI only scenarios the AI side will not have any standard setup zones (don't need them).  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well all I can say is that I set a zone for the AI to use in setup and time after time it didn't use it. As soon as I included it in the default setup zones, it used it.  When I set up a large AI setup area but only the buildings in that area were part of the default setup zone, it only placed units in the buildings.

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Holdit said:

Well all I can say is that I set a zone for the AI to use in setup and time after time it didn't use it. As soon as I included it in the default setup zones, it used it.  When I set up a large AI setup area but only the buildings in that area were part of the default setup zone, it only placed units in the buildings.

Hmm, interesting.  I found the below in my notes from a post made by @Paper Tiger.  

In the map editor you will have to 'paint' at least one set up zone (there are three) for one or both sides first if you want the AI to set up its own units. If you don't paint a set up zone for a side, the units will always start the scenario set up where you find them in the editor. Once you've painted the set up areas on the map, you can then 'paint' locations in the AI map editor within these set areas and the AI will then deploy stuff depending on the set up orders you gave them.  

It would seem he might agree with you....................................... 

Edit to add: You are right my friend.  I generally place the initial starting deployments of AI troops as I want.  They don't get to choose.  However I have an old scenario, Consulate Evacuation, where I did allow the AI to place it's troops in a setup zone.  I opened my old scenario in the editor and sure enough I have one big RedFor setup zone painted.  Inside this big setup zone are smaller AI setup zones.  My apologies you are correct.     

Edited by MOS:96B2P
Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

This has got me wondering about a couple of failed experiments.....Did I paint a setup zone

Hmmm, and another thing is that in the scenario we are testing the regime leader dude randomly shows up at one of three AI setup zones.  There is not a "standard" RedFor setup zone anywhere on that map.  And it works without a problem.  He starts in the corner of the map.  When the BRB is hit he jumps to one of the three zones.  This is what I was thinking of when I first responded.  I'm trying to figure out why there seems to be a difference.............. and failing.  @Combatintman what am I missing?        

Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt I can shed much light on this. My understanding has always been as per the Paper Tiger quote  - namely:

If an AI group has no setup order, it should always start where the designer deployed it in the unit editor. I have always found this to be the case.

If setup orders are used, they must be painted on areas of the map that have been painted as setup zones in the map editor. If that condition is met, the AI will randomly set units up in the designated painted area of the setup order. As I've previously had mixed results with this, I've generally not used it much. I have certainly seen the turn 1 'jump' in scenario author test mode shifting units from where the designer has placed them to their setup zones in accordance with the AI plan that is active.

Edited by Combatintman
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

I thought I'd done the same when bouncing IEDs around.....Actually come to think of it one of the possible setups was in the Blue setup zone!  :ph34r:

@Holdit.....Are you sure all your AI plans are active?  :unsure:

They're not. I've set the default AI plan to "Not Used"  and Plan #2, which I'm currently working on, to "Frequently Used".

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, benpark said:

I use the non-setup zone method mostly, but also mix that with a zone setup within the same plan to randomize specific elements- like a few AFVs or anti tank guns, etc. That allows control, as well as some randomization for replayability.

+1  This is probably the best way to go about it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...