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CMSF 2 BETA AAR #2 – Syrian Probe (Quick Battle)

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Even though the other BETA AAR is still going on, I expect it will end very soon.  I had already promised to take IanL on in a second game to fill the time, so here 'tis.  I hope it fills the time lef

I was in real life (a cannon cocker - FIST Chief, Btry Fire Direction Officer, Bde Fire Support Officer, and Arty Bn Fire Direction Officer). Although it's been a while, for preplanned fires your comm

MINUTE 1 ..and we are finally under way.  No action this turn, so sorry @c3k, no gifs showing stuff blowing up yet.    In order to ascertain whether there are any of Ian's units in the far l

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The Syrian models are looking great - the BMP 3 in particular - I'm looking forward to the release even more!

All the armour seems to be in camo except for the BMP 2 - any reason for that? Will there be options to switch skin?

Edited by AlexUK
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On 7/19/2018 at 12:58 PM, Bil Hardenberger said:

Had to weigh value versus cost...  I expect the armor to be the main actors in this action (as they usually are in the modern games) and I prioritized my anti-armor assets (AT13 and AT14 platoons) over anti-infantry (artillery).  Though I think I have enough assets to handle his infantry and their LAVs.. it's his armor that concerns me.  If he brings Leopard C2s then we should be on par (give or take, mostly give really), but if he brings Leopard 2s.. well, in that case my armor will stay behind cover and wait for the ATGMs to do their job.. then they'll come out to play.

Ahh ok, makes good sense to me. 

Being able to split Syrian infantry is a welcome improvement. If nothing else, the new models are excellent, both the infantry and vehicles. 

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This view from my side of the map shows the two main terrain features on the map, what I am calling Snake Ridge and Star Hill.  Note how close the initial objectives are to my start position. That makes me very nervous.


In the background of the above image, you can see the four positions where I dropped my TRPs.  These are what I think could be the main Hull Down positions for Ian to use against me.  They are labeled HD1 to HD4.  With those TRPs in position (slightly on the reverse slope) I can either smoke them or make targeting that position easier.  If he has ATGM positions on them, I can drop HE quicker and more accurately.


From the other side of the ridge, you can see how close those first objectives are to my Assembly Area (AA).  This could be a major problem as Ian can, and probably will have units as close to Snake Ridge and Star Hill that I am.. and his positions on the right side of this image could be so close to Snake Ridge over there that I could immediately be in trouble.

A nightmare scenario for me would be if he bought a Company of Leopards and rushed my troops before they could jump off and while loaded.  he could feasibly end this game in the first couple of turns.  Wouldn't be sporting, but hey.. things happen.  If he seizes the right end of Snake Ridge in the early turns, again this could be a very short game.

The terrain from Snake Ridge all the way through the rest of Ian's AO is pretty flat.  So a close defense would make sense.  

The red line indicates where I suspect the Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) lies.  It could be closer, it could be farther back.  Regardless, the initial turns could be scary and edge of your seat stuff.  We'll also see how sporting or ruthless Ian can be.  ;) 


You can see from the below that my AA sits behind a high ridgeline, this is Snake Ridge.  Star Hill is very clear in this GIF as well. 


The following image shows the proximity of the first objective.  I am not normally one to instantly go for objectives, but I suspect he will have a unit of some sort there, so first task is to find out.  I will dismount the infantry platoon assigned this sector and move them on foot to the ridge to peek over the top.  They will be on Hunt orders in case he sends a vehicle or two over the top as well.


Star Hill from my lines.  I will be sending the AT-13 Platoon (-) to this position in order to look down on the initial objective. 


Edited by Bil Hardenberger
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What are the distances from the forward (closest) edge of your set up zone to the terrain features and to the objectives? 

It's always best to find an initial location for the vast majority (preferably all) of one's units that is completely safe from any enemy observation.  In this case it seems that if an enemy is on Star Hill, he sees all of your set up zone immediately.  If that is correct, it's unlikely a designer would do that to a player.  (Unless that is a deliberate design decision for some reason.)

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On 7/19/2018 at 8:28 PM, boche said:

I work in a preety much desert environmet and all our utility vehicles are covered. ofcourse we open up the tarp when it gets extremely hot, bad thing is you eat dirt like a mofo.

when we are allowed to do what we want (or are in a place where they dont see us...) we ussually role like this: 


On holidays in Morocco last month we rented a 4 door Jeep Wrangler and had the hard top removed. Great vehicle for driving there (especially in the desert like mountains) and having no roof is sure nice when its 35+ C, but when the sun is down it gets cold very quick (even with 25+ C. ambient temperature), due to the wind at higher speeds. And yes, we ate some dust when we went off the road :-). 

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On 7/19/2018 at 3:53 PM, Bil Hardenberger said:


This element will be my main combat element in this action.  They will be tasked with capturing early objectives, ascertaining enemy strength and capabilities, and recovering the enemy Order of Battle.  

A Company Mechanized Infantry on BMP-2s 

  • Company HQ Element
    • Tanks are intended for anti-infantry support
    • ZSU-23-4 is mainly for AA support, but also is intended to be used in an anti-infantry role


  • 1st Platoon
    • Will have one AT-13 team attached


  • 2nd Platoon
    • Will have one AT-13 team attached



  • 120mm Mortar Battery with FO
    • Also purchased four TRPs


  •  AT 13 Platoon
    • One of the two sections will be assigned to the Main Body, one AT team per platoon
    • Note:  truck was purchased specially to carry the remaining section and the HQ element


  • AT 14 Platoon
    • One of the two sections will be assigned to the Reserve, both AT teams in the Mech Infantry platoon
    • Note:  truck was purchased specially to carry the remaining section and the HQ element


RESERVE - This force will be husbanded until needed, or until I can identify the main enemy positions

  • Airborne Mechanized Infantry Platoon on BMP-3s
    • Will have one complete AT-14 section attached


  • Tank Platoon on T-72M1 TURMS-T
    • Technology Note:  These tanks feature the TURMS-T computerised fire control system by Galileo Avionica.  It will be interesting to see how that helps in action.


Nice force composition, I'm curious what you can achieve with it. Especially the ATGMs are very dangerous for basically any BLUE vehicle.

Edited by Lethaface
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On 7/20/2018 at 5:45 PM, DerKommissar said:

The only Javelin Canadians used was the MANPAD, which has long been deprecated. ERYX left service in 2016, so it should still be around. I don't know if it's in SF, though.

ERYX isn't even comparable to the Javelin. It's designed for very short range (half a kilometer, roughly). Still, it's relatively light, mobile and can tackle an MBT. Kind of like a, more potent, wire-guided, Carl Gustaf.

In CMSF they had the Eryx and Carl Gustaf, IIRC. The Carl Gustaf mainly came with anti infantry rounds, afaik. No Javelins for any Nato module forces.

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You have some lethal tools in your line-up there Bil.....Your T-72 TURMS-Ts are the business, but you'll need to be crafty (I've no doubt that is your plan).  :ph34r:

Did I spy a couple of Kornet teams too?  Turkish Leopards have had a VERY bad time against the Kornet in Syria.....Although I suspect your opponent probably won't skyline his Leopards side-on to your forces.  :rolleyes:


Edited by Sgt.Squarehead
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..and we are finally under way.  No action this turn, so sorry @c3k, no gifs showing stuff blowing up yet.  ;) 

In order to ascertain whether there are any of Ian's units in the far left of Snake Ridge, I send 2nd Platoon to reconnoiter this area...


They were still on their way at turn end, and the following image illustrates their routes.. the small arrows indicate dismounted infantry taking a peek over the lip of each ridge line.  Only two BMPs are in this area now as the third was held back to overwatch the movement.  The last BMP will join them next turn.


On Star Hill I am deploying two AT-13 teams and the AT-13 Platoon HQ.  One team will crawl over the nearest crest in order to look down on the initial objective (North East Farm), one will be kept in reserve.  The HQ team will crawl over the opposite crest in order to get eyes on the other side of the valley.  The truck will return to the SP.



1st Platoon is moving dismounted toward the nearest crest overlooking the North East Farm Objective. 


They are being overwatched by the rest of A Company.



I finally did an analysis of what Ian could bring to the fight... he can potentially field a platoon of tanks, plus a few extra tanks if he sacrificed infantry.  If he went full Mechanized, then I can expect about a Company of infantry, give or take, depending on the number of tanks he bought, the type of tanks, and whether he bought any support units.  

I think with this terrain I would have gone armor heavy , so worse case I will expect to see a Tank Heavy Company Team in front of me  with up to 6 or 7 tanks.  I expect Leopard C2s as the Leopard 2A6Ms are very expensive, about 200 points more than the C2s, however they are much more capable, so its a trade off.  

If he decided not to go with LAVs or the Nyala APC then he could buy a lot more infantry and support assets, ATGM and artillery, maybe even some air... but then he would have no flexibility, so I expect to  see most of his infantry with either LAVs or the Nyala... but that will impact the amount of support units and numbers of infantry he can bring to the party.

I actually expect our forces to be close in size... though his will be far superior in capability.  However it shakes out its going to be interesting.

Edited by Bil Hardenberger
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10 hours ago, IICptMillerII said:

Really appreciate the close up shots of the vehicles and infantry models, even if some of the infantry models aren't complete yet. They look fantastic!


10 hours ago, Mord said:

Amen to that. Absolutely love that second to last shot, lots of atmosphere. That dude with the rpg looks badass! People that say this game is ugly need glasses and a brain transplant.


Unfortunately I have the sun against my back in this scenario, which doesn't help the image quality.  Still, yes, the infantry look amazing in the game.

10 hours ago, sburke said:

I am finding that movie mode somehow looks better in CMSF2 for me as well.  I've started viewing stuff in that mode more.  Bil you dastardly sneak!

It is about time you came over to the dark side.  👿

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Still no contact... it might be a little while until that happens so be patient.  My philosophy is to generally not plan until I have some data on the enemy.. right now I have nothing.  This initial reconnaissance phase can really help when it comes time to throw in the works.

On my far left, 2nd Platoon is getting to their initial positions.  1st Squad and the Platoon HQ is moving up quickly... 


2nd Squad and 3rd Squad have dismounted and are moving to their ridges as Dismounted Recon Teams (DRT).



In the 1st Platoon AO, they continue to move carefully forward, the infantry is staggering their movement and taking listening halts for 15-30 seconds at each waypoint.  The A Company infantry support tanks and the Platoon BMPs (except for one) are also staying close behind the infantry squads.

Next turn the T-62M will creep forward, peek over the ridge (hopefully masked from the rest of the map) and take a few shots at the top floor of the large building on the objective... then it will back off.  With this movement, I am just trying to force some movement from Ian.  Note on the far right that I have a dismounted team climbing the ridge at the map edge in order to look down into the objective.


Also looking down on the objective is one AT-13 Team.... many eyes from many different angles is key to successfully getting spots on enemy units or vehicles.


Edited by Bil Hardenberger
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14 hours ago, Bil Hardenberger said:


the infantry is staggering their movement and taking listening halts for 15-30 seconds at each waypoint. 

many eyes from many different angles is key to successfully getting spots on enemy units or vehicles.

Nice!!!  Good information.  The infantry in the above screenshot look very good.  A big improvement from CMSF1.  

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2nd Squad on my far left (2nd Platoon) received a sound contact as it moved up towards its position.

This gif has been sped up by 50%:


The image below shows final positions... I believe (and I am not sure as I really dislike the standard icons, so difficult to tell unit/vehicle types apart) that this is a light armor vehicle.  I assume (and I was taught to never assume) that Ian is reconnoitering this area in order to determine how I am deploying.  If he doesn't have a dismounted team nearby, he might not know my BMPs are on the other side of the ridge.  That enemy vehicle was definitely moving, I do wonder if its alone.  Perhaps I can expect a scout team to poke its head over the ridge in front of my squad.


In the 1st Platoon zone the T-62M moved past the advancing infantry and took a couple shots, both hit the upper floor of the large building in the Farm Objective...  I am slowly getting closer to the ridge and my infantry should be able to sight into the objective next turn. 

Time is slightly compressed in this gif, the tank reload took several more seconds to complete than is shown.


Edited by Bil Hardenberger
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