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I *think* I have the solution to the "communications problem".

So if BF don't like/want/can't post little bits of info every now and then, simply let every one that pre-order'd join closed beta.

People would:

- see that the games is coming along

- could join a "beta players only" segment in the forum

- help finding bugs

- be more happy

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Huh? This makes no sense. How did you jump to the conclusion that I was angry with you or anyone else? Sarcasm doesn't = anger. It means I'm tired of waiting for news from you guys and tired of w

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Well it seems to me that know one seems to know what is going on....Does anyone think that no information is acceptable.   I am really starting to get a little more concerned about this whole thing....I already paid my money for the prepaid game.   That's fine but if you ask me i am starting to get a little more than concerned.  Can someone at BF give us some info as to WTF is going on...A little info would make me and some other folks calm down a little bit....Not much  in my opinion this whole deal is getting a little more than than concerning...I know it's only a game but......really can we have some GD info.....

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They don't pick just anyone. I think they look for people who have been around a while and show a good grasp of  knowing the system and its in and outs. I was actually asked back when BN was coming out ( I am still not sure why LOL) but I turned it down because of comp problems and I was worried that the game would become a chore instead of fun.

 

Mord.

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3 minutes ago, markus544 said:

Well it seems to me that know one seems to know what is going on....Does anyone think that no information is acceptable.   I am really starting to get a little more concerned about this whole thing....I already paid my money for the prepaid game.   That's fine but if you ask me i am starting to get a little more than concerned.  Can someone at BF give us some info as to WTF is going on...A little info would make me and some other folks calm down a little bit....Not much  in my opinion this whole deal is getting a little more than than concerning...I know it's only a game but......really can we have some GD info.....

Well that is entirely up to Steve, but I am not sure exactly what you are concerned so much for.  Yes I get you'd like some info, but it isn't like the game isn't gonna come out and you'll lose money etc.  If it comes a little later why the angst?  I know the excitement and all is there but again there is no risk here, just a delay and so far a really minor one.  It is only Oct 6th. 

And no having everyone join beta is NOT a good idea.  Hell having me on beta is probably not a good idea, they just don't want to admit the mistake of letting me in.

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I'll give you one great reason even though you didn't ask me. Just because someone preorders doesn't mean they know anything about the game. What if it's the first time the dude has played CM? Without experience and extensive knowledge of how certain features are supposed to act and how the game handles them,  how would they be able to contribute? They'd be reporting typical game functions as possible bugs etc. if they don't understand what's going on. 

From what I've seen over the years most of the beta guys, the newer ones, have been plucked from the forums because of the knowledge and experience they've displayed, through tests and discussions. Why should anybody just be able to buy their way in without any proof they even know what's going on? It's a recipe for confusion.

 

Mord.

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1 hour ago, McMortison said:

@sburke why isn't it a good idea? I am not talking about an open beta but a closed beta for the ones preordering the game/sim.

 

Have you ever tried to manage that many people generating noise? 

The problem is bandwidth as (I guess) there is only two people (paid, and I am not sure they are getting paid that much for what they do!!!) working for the company at the moment...

This is the root cause of lack of communication and having a mass of people on a closed beta will not help.

This is a niche company and while I too would like more updates it is what it is and I keep hoping we get the patch...

At some point this journey will end, I just hope they can keep going for a while yet.....

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I am not talking from a alpha version, I am talking from a pre release beta that is 1 to 3 Month away from release to keep the buyers happy. 

I do understand you arguments @Mord and @Holien but IMHO it doesn't matter if the buyers doesn't  understand the full product or the pre release beta.

I should have been more specific about my beta idea, sorry. I always ment a version very close to release.

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Okay...I took a deep breath and I still don't get why us guys have not heard anything....not a GD thing...Am I really being this unreasonable or am I losing my GD mind over this BF deal.   Maybe I should visit my neighborhood shrink and seek their advise on this matter.  Or Should I just fire up my XBOX ONE and fire up some bad guys to calm me down.  At the end of the day I know that I am without a doubt one of the most dedicated customers that BF has and I will heed the advise of you all and just chill.

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I've always been of the opinion that BF will release a game when it's good & ready and everyone should just chill.  However, where I feel BF have scored an own goal is by offering pre-orders on a game that has no definitive release date.  That's people's hard-earned cash they've parted with and these same people were told earlier that the game was set for an end-of-September release.  If BF haven't conveyed what is going on with these people, then in my opinion these people have a justified reason to be irked.  My two-pence.  :)

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I am glad to see some people clearly get the problem with adding a ton of people to the mix: @Holien and @Mord. Plus @sburke trying to explain why 30s is not really 30s etc. Clearly just like any actual communication few people would really be satisfied.

Here is the thing several of us beta testers have said things are fine the game is progressing you will get your game. People claim that is all they want Steve to say. Considering you already have that information I think that is proof that it is not enough to satisfy people and therefore Steve should spend his time and energy working in releasing the game.

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28 minutes ago, Dynaman216 said:

That is actually the first time I have read something like that in the past month.  I had no reason to doubt it but have not read it directly.

The trouble is we are not allowed to post about details that are not already public - which is totally reasonable. So, we cannot really say much in terms of details. Which means they don't stand out much.

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7 hours ago, McMortison said:

@sburke why isn't it a good idea? I am not talking about an open beta but a closed beta for the ones preordering the game/sim.

 

I can't discuss real examples, but 2 general things as I am not sure of your intent in having people join a closed beta

Option 1.  They have access to the Beta but not as "testers"  they just get to play with something

Option 2 They get to actually provide feedback as testers

Regarding option 1 if there are issues being worked through that make running it difficult what would be the point and in early beta when you see models running around without textures and all it really isn't all that fun. They would have to sign an NDA so they can't even really talk to anyone about it.

Option 2.  There is a process to testing and feedback formats that are good and some not so good.  The forum is a very good example.  Lots of people cite things they think might be wrong, but they just report them and don't test.  That isn't helpful in testing.  You find something, you have to start digging.

I know some companies generate interest by inviting people to beta test.  Managing those people takes time even if it is just a forum moderator.  BF doesn't need more testers (I don't think) and they don't have the resources to moderate a bunch of folks who just supply commentary.

The real net result for both options is just more work for BF.

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1 hour ago, Dynaman216 said:

That is actually the first time I have read something like that in the past month.  I had no reason to doubt it but have not read it directly.

yeah I am not so sure I have heard anything quite in those words either, however Steve did post this today in the CMSF video thread..

I've been holding off posting an official update because there's been an annoying detail and a few other things that needed to get nailed down first.  It's pretty much where I need it to be, so expect a post in a few days.  And no, it won't be to announce CMSF2 is now ready for downloading.

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14 hours ago, Sequoia said:

This can solve the issue. All that needs to be done is hook Charles brain up to some others and the amount of coding that gets done daily is tripled.

I'm not so sure. It depends on how the work is divided and how smoothly the coders coördinate their efforts. Otherwise, they are just as apt to create three times as many stumbling blocks for each other as a single coder would.

Michael

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I thought the video was okay....I just wanted to get some other news that has not been forthcoming, for whatever reason.  I pre-ordered the game and I don't feel bad about it because I have been very happy with all the other CM games from the very beginning.  I mean all the way back to CMBO and everything since.  Thats all.  Over and out.

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9 hours ago, markus544 said:

Okay...I took a deep breath and I still don't get why us guys have not heard anything....not a GD thing...Am I really being this unreasonable or am I losing my GD mind over this BF deal.   Maybe I should visit my neighborhood shrink and seek their advise on this matter.  Or Should I just fire up my XBOX ONE and fire up some bad guys to calm me down.  At the end of the day I know that I am without a doubt one of the most dedicated customers that BF has and I will heed the advise of you all and just chill.

This is the kind of attitude I just don't get. Sure, it is a bit frustrating that the game is a little late, but why make a big deal of it? Who in hell is going to slit their wrists just because CMSF2 is late? Are you locked in a padded cell with nothing else to do? Have you no social life that you regularly involve yourself in? I don't mean to sound unsympathetic if that is the case and I genuinely hope that it is not. But it is edging awfully close to leaving that impression. I have to tell you that if you are depending on BFC to bring you happiness, you are leaning on a broken reed. It is what it is and can provide a nice complement to a satisfying life for certain kinds of personalities—of which I am one—but it is far from being the whole party that is life.

Michael

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We are all not the same which know to all.  Some people are horders and have to wade though mountains of newspapers and other junk to get to their tv and computers.. Some people like me are not social butterflies and more couch potatoes while other people are everywhere in between.  I really don't think a delay is the end of the world but I at the same time some coherent  information would be welcome, that's all.

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On August 9, 2018 at 6:53 PM, Battlefront.com said:

Huh?  This makes no sense.  You're angry with me because I don't want to string you guys along with dates pulled out of my backside, then make up more BS dates that I am not confident we can deliver upon just to appease demands for dates?  Or are you angry with me because I don't have magical powers?

Seriously, this is just another example of the futility of release dates.  If I post wrong ones we get skewered for not delivering on expectations those dates set.  If I post no dates we get skewered for not doing things which set expectations which we aren't sure we can meet.  Damned if we do, damned if we don't is a really unfair position to be in, but we accept that is the way things work. 

Given that we have to make a choice between being damned for setting up expectations that aren't met or damned for not setting up expectations, I think the right choice is the latter.  If someone wants to lay out a rational case for doing things differently, I'm all ears.

Steve

P.S.  one of the beautiful things about being an independent, self publishing game developer is we don't have any problem with someone tuning out for a year and then coming back to see what we have.  We don't have a 60 day window to make or break our future like other game companies.  So if people want to check back with us in a year because that works best for that person, it works fine for us too.  No pressure.

Please read page 3 of the Beta Video in the thread of that name in the CMSF2 forum. Steve has responded there, and makes a statement/update about 4 or 5 hours ago. I usually use an iPad for forums and don't know how to link from here, so this is the best I can do.

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10 minutes ago, Michael Emrys said:

Have you no social life that you regularly involve yourself in?

Says the man with 26,000 posts on the forums...

To me the most egregious thing about all of this is that there are many existing paying customers who had their Engine 4 upgrades borked by an issue that was CREATED BY BFC and that was pointed out what, a year-and-a-half ago?  No it's not necessarily "game breaking", but it can break games that you've already invested time in.  Either way, it's an issue that has been complained about multiple times, and after a long period of radio silence, Steve comes on and basically says "I know we can do better as far as communication goes" and yet here we are again a few months later with total radio silence.  Why everyone seems to think it's fine to ignore fixing something that is causing multiple paying customers issues  (and the updrade to Engine 4 has not been cheap for those who've been here since the beginning) in place of coming out with something new, I see that as a total lack of understanding of the wants and needs of your paying customers.

It's a nice gesture to send one of your forum members to post a video in your place, but I don't think that's what the people who are complaining are asking for.  Just a little common courtesy is all.  You've got guys loitering around here who are clearly showing interest in the product or they wouldn't be here.  Steve's responses are terse and show little respect for the people who keep them in business, if they come at all.

I've bought every single Combat Mission product from CBMO to CMBS, but I stopped at FB.  And I won't be buying anything else from them until they demonstrate in some way that they actually give two s*&ts about their customers.  

I am a software developer and the last company I worked for took the same cocky stance that "our product is superior so either shut up and like it/buy it or go find something else".  That worked out real well for those guys...   

 

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1 minute ago, DzrtFox said:

Says the man with 26,000 posts on the forums...

To me the most egregious thing about all of this is that there are many existing paying customers who had their Engine 4 upgrades borked by an issue that was CREATED BY BFC and that was pointed out what, a year-and-a-half ago?  No it's not necessarily "game breaking", but it can break games that you've already invested time in.  Either way, it's an issue that has been complained about multiple times, and after a long period of radio silence, Steve comes on and basically says "I know we can do better as far as communication goes" and yet here we are again a few months later with total radio silence.  Why everyone seems to think it's fine to ignore fixing something that is causing multiple paying customers issues  (and the updrade to Engine 4 has not been cheap for those who've been here since the beginning) in place of coming out with something new, I see that as a total lack of understanding of the wants and needs of your paying customers.

It's a nice gesture to send one of your forum members to post a video in your place, but I don't think that's what the people who are complaining are asking for.  Just a little common courtesy is all.  You've got guys loitering around here who are clearly showing interest in the product or they wouldn't be here.  Steve's responses are terse and show little respect for the people who keep them in business, if they come at all.

I've bought every single Combat Mission product from CBMO to CMBS, but I stopped at FB.  And I won't be buying anything else from them until they demonstrate in some way that they actually give two s*&ts about their customers.  

I am a software developer and the last company I worked for took the same cocky stance that "our product is superior so either shut up and like it/buy it or go find something else".  That worked out real well for those guys...   

 

Good bye. You're always welcome to come back and purchase new material when you feel the urge.

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53 minutes ago, Michael Emrys said:

I'm not so sure. It depends on how the work is divided and how smoothly the coders coördinate their efforts. Otherwise, they are just as apt to create three times as many stumbling blocks for each other as a single coder would.

Michael

I'm sure you understood I was joking. :)  That said, as Mord asked, are they bring a second, second programmer on board?

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14 minutes ago, Vet 0369 said:

Good bye. You're always welcome to come back and purchase new material when you feel the urge.

Bye. 

Thanks for the offer but I've lost interest in another $50 game with new guys and new guns and little else different.  We can keep milking this 10-year old engine with a horribly clunky interface and terrible performance on newer hardware and blaming all the cool things we can't do on the engine that THEY CREATED.  I'm moving on...

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