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An Possible Exploit


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Right I've known about this for an little while now, sorry for the delay. Seems there's an limitation or bug in an game mechanic that enables you to discover where an enemy unit is even though you cannot see them. I've not done any PBEM though I imagine that this could be quite an issue for those that do. I've recorded something to explain and show whats going on. But question before doing so is I'm not sure what would be better to do, either post the recording here or private message someone involved in development/testing instead.

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8 minutes ago, Oliver_88 said:

Right I've known about this for an little while now, sorry for the delay. Seems there's an limitation or bug in an game mechanic that enables you to discover where an enemy unit is even though you cannot see them. I've not done any PBEM though I imagine that this could be quite an issue for those that do. I've recorded something to explain and show whats going on. But question before doing so is I'm not sure what would be better to do, either post the recording here or private message someone involved in development/testing instead.

Pm me. I don’t have any pbem going so no opponent that needs be concerned. :D

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okay, videos just uploading now

was concerned what to do as I doubt an patch would come quick to sort out and so maybe better to not let this become public, but then again something similar happened in another game and those that knew about the exploit continued to abuse that knowledge for their own gain, and would be surprised if others have not realised this problem so also thought maybe better that everyone knew about the thing

http://community.battlefront.com/profile/36389-battlefrontcom/ this the profile to private message steve or there an more personal one to use?

Edited by Oliver_88
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16 minutes ago, Oliver_88 said:

http://community.battlefront.com/profile/36389-battlefrontcom/ this the profile to private message steve or there an more personal one to use?

Yes, that is Steve from BFC's profile. But honestly I would recommend sending it to this Steve @sburke:

50 minutes ago, sburke said:

Pm me.

He will likely get on it quicker and his mail box is probably not full :)

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As far as I know there are quite a bit of exploits that allows you to discover the location of unspotted units. With stereo audio or better you can determine where any shooting unit is down to the tile, be they far away on-map mortar teams, or just a pesky machine gun whose position have not been determined yet.

There are no clear way to solve it. You could play the sound from a generic location / direction, but that would hamper immersion.

Another variant, is that you can see anti-tank weaponry from unknown shooters during the last 10-50 meters. You can use this to do "battlefield forensics" do determine the shooters likely location.

It is my understanding that most people either, (A) have gentlemen's rules not to use abuse that knowledge, or (B) accepts that's how it is any information you gather, no matter the source, is yours to use. Personally I lean towards A.

Edited by Muzzleflash1990
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Some things can be fixed though. I remember right after movable way points were added some of us discovered that you could take a on map mortar team and give them a target at a way point and then move the way point and the mortar could still hit that spot just like it had direct LOS to the target. It meant that you could hit any location with pin point accuracy nearly instantaneously. All it cost you was a short move and the setup time. Oops. That's why when you move a way point any target command attached is discarded. I was asked to stop talking about that "feature" while the patch was assembled. :D

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@Muzzleflash1990 yeah the audio issue is something I don’t see changing. Trying to randomize it would really affect immersion and create a very odd feel to the, again and hit decals will give you clues anyway.  The other one is vehicles going through fences and hedges. You can hear and see those disappear. I used to deliberately use jeeps etc to break fences randomly to disguise my movements. :D

some things are just not able to be changed and not have a lot of unintended affects that affect the game more.

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2 hours ago, Muzzleflash1990 said:

As far as I know there are quite a bit of exploits that allows you to discover the location of unspotted units. With stereo audio or better you can determine where any shooting unit is down to the tile, be they far away on-map mortar teams, or just a pesky machine gun whose position have not been determined yet.

There are no clear way to solve it. You could play the sound from a generic location / direction, but that would hamper immersion.

I remember that in CM1, the game would fool you about the location of distant shooters. At very long range, you might get a "?" mystery contact that is several tiles away from their true location. Then after you've blasted that spot with area fire, you discover later on that their real location is 50m off to the right or whatever. That was a pretty cool way to handle the problem. Whatever happened to that? I've always felt that CM2 gives you way too much info about the enemy. Not just with the sound exploits, but with other things as well, like being able to tell who is an enemy HQ team and who isn't at 1000+ meters or whatever. Or the game telling you the exact moment that an enemy MG or AT gun position is destroyed or abandoned. Or always being able to tell the exact type of enemy tank. I liked how in CM1, your troops could mis-identify enemy tanks, thinking one is a Tiger when it really isn't or whatever.

Edited by Bozowans
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1 hour ago, Bozowans said:

I remember that in CM1, the game would fool you about the location of distant shooters. At very long range, you might get a "?" mystery contact that is several tiles away from their true location. Then after you've blasted that spot with area fire, you discover later on that their real location is 50m off to the right or whatever. That was a pretty cool way to handle the problem. Whatever happened to that? I've always felt that CM2 gives you way too much info about the enemy. Not just with the sound exploits, but with other things as well, like being able to tell who is an enemy HQ team and who isn't at 1000+ meters or whatever. Or the game telling you the exact moment that an enemy MG or AT gun position is destroyed or abandoned. Or always being able to tell the exact type of enemy tank. I liked how in CM1, your troops could mis-identify enemy tanks, thinking one is a Tiger when it really isn't or whatever.

This +10

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2 hours ago, Bozowans said:

I remember that in CM1, the game would fool you about the location of distant shooters. At very long range, you might get a "?" mystery contact that is several tiles away from their true location. Then after you've blasted that spot with area fire, you discover later on that their real location is 50m off to the right or whatever. That was a pretty cool way to handle the problem. Whatever happened to that? I've always felt that CM2 gives you way too much info about the enemy. Not just with the sound exploits, but with other things as well, like being able to tell who is an enemy HQ team and who isn't at 1000+ meters or whatever. Or the game telling you the exact moment that an enemy MG or AT gun position is destroyed or abandoned. Or always being able to tell the exact type of enemy tank. I liked how in CM1, your troops could mis-identify enemy tanks, thinking one is a Tiger when it really isn't or whatever.

You didn't mention what game skill level that you are playing.  The higher the skill level, the less the amount of info you get.  Rachet it up to at least Elite... Iron is better still.

But that's just my opinion.

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1 minute ago, Jim1954 said:

You didn't mention what game skill level that you are playing.  The higher the skill level, the less the amount of info you get.  Rachet it up to at least Elite... Iron is better still.

But that's just my opinion.

I always play on Iron. Even on Iron, if you click on an enemy soldier then it will tell if you they are part of an HQ team or AT gun crew or whatever. It would be better if it just told you nothing.

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24 minutes ago, Bozowans said:

I always play on Iron. Even on Iron, if you click on an enemy soldier then it will tell if you they are part of an HQ team or AT gun crew or whatever. It would be better if it just told you nothing.

I couldn't agree more...Did I mention +10

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6 hours ago, Bozowans said:

I remember that in CM1, the game would fool you about the location of distant shooters. At very long range, you might get a "?" mystery contact that is several tiles away from their true location. Then after you've blasted that spot with area fire, you discover later on that their real location is 50m off to the right or whatever. That was a pretty cool way to handle the problem. Whatever happened to that? I've always felt that CM2 gives you way too much info about the enemy. Not just with the sound exploits, but with other things as well, like being able to tell who is an enemy HQ team and who isn't at 1000+ meters or whatever. Or the game telling you the exact moment that an enemy MG or AT gun position is destroyed or abandoned. Or always being able to tell the exact type of enemy tank. I liked how in CM1, your troops could mis-identify enemy tanks, thinking one is a Tiger when it really isn't or whatever.

Yes, I miss the non-exact icons too, I think there is too much information given on location at the moment.

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13 hours ago, Muzzleflash1990 said:

you can determine where any shooting unit is down to the tile, be they far away on-map mortar teams, or just a pesky machine gun whose position have not been determined yet.

There are no clear way to solve it. You could play the sound from a generic location / direction, but that would hamper immersion.

They could disable positional audio for units that haven't been spotted yet. I think that would increase immersion, not diminish it.

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19 hours ago, Oliver_88 said:

okay, videos just uploading now

was concerned what to do as I doubt an patch would come quick to sort out and so maybe better to not let this become public, but then again something similar happened in another game and those that knew about the exploit continued to abuse that knowledge for their own gain, and would be surprised if others have not realised this problem so also thought maybe better that everyone knew about the thing

http://community.battlefront.com/profile/36389-battlefrontcom/ this the profile to private message steve or there an more personal one to use?

And, where  is this Vid you wanted all to see...

I wonder what you are mentioning is the ability for Units to use the LOS Tool at every Waypoint (and 'Area-Fire')...If so, then it's a Game Mechanic function that I believe should've been Banned.

Just your 2 Cents...

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11 hours ago, Artkin said:

I used to only play on Iron. Now I play on scenario test mode and turn off icons ingame. This works much better with a smaller force obviously :)

I am having a hard time telling if that was a joke or you are serious.  Why would you play on scenario auth test mode?  You get full intel on the enemy and turning icons off doesn’t help.  You can still see them and if you do click on them you now get their c2 links as well showing their higher hq.  Why don’t you just play iron with icons off? That would be harder.

 

the whole point of test mode is so you can verify the ai plan is working as intended. 

Edited by sburke
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6 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

They could disable positional audio for units that haven't been spotted yet. I think that would increase immersion, not diminish it.

That would decrease it for me.  Hearing the snap of a sniper round when I don’t know where he is? Way cool.  Rounds hitting with no sound? Weird.  I don’t go searching for audio sources to pinpoint my targets but I do like hearing the rounds   

some folks don’t get all in on the immersion thing, true of any game. I wouldn’t let their behavior drive game development for the rest of us though.

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25 minutes ago, sburke said:
7 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

They could disable positional audio for units that haven't been spotted yet. I think that would increase immersion, not diminish it.

That would decrease it for me.  Hearing the snap of a sniper round when I don’t know where he is? Way cool.  Rounds hitting with no sound? Weird.  I don’t go searching for audio sources to pinpoint my targets but I do like hearing the rounds   

You misunderstood. I just meant they could disable the positional aspect of the sound, but still play the sound. So you'd hear the crack of the rifle like in your example, but not know where it came from.

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4 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

You misunderstood. I just meant they could disable the positional aspect of the sound, but still play the sound. So you'd hear the crack of the rifle like in your example, but not know where it came from.

Ah okay, yeah I mis understood. 

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Or do a variable tile source, if your close but have no eyes the indicator will be within a couple of tiles of the actual source, the further the distance the larger the tile spread.  So at say 1km the ? Icon pings upfor an AT that fired but it is randomly placed within a (i dunno) 20 tile radius, so you can take a swag at it and pummel it with arty but you might be wrooong.  To me this would be the best solution.

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3 hours ago, sburke said:

I believe sound contacts are still variable so not sure what folks are pointing out here as different.

I get the impression that contacts (not sure how to differentiate between sound and other types) tend to show the exact spot. I haven’t tested it though.

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