Sulomon vs Oleksandr: A Quick Battle AAR

[Sulomon]

Hello this is an AAR of my quick battle with @Oleksandr  It's a Russia vs Ukraine medium size meeting engagement. 

I haven't played much Black Sea (I mostly play Final Blitzkrieg) and I went with what I figure would be a standard force.  I have four platoons of mounted infantry, 5 T-90AMs, six mortars, a mounted grenade launcher platoon, and an igla platoon and a Tunguska for AA.  

I don't have a very advanced plan.  Essentially move forward and see how the match develops from there.  But I assume the major objective will be the main contest and the minor objectives won't be very contested.  I send two platoons of infantry, the T-90AMs, and the grenade launchers to the center.  I send a platoon of infantry on each flank, one to secure my minor objective, the other to contest his minor objective if possible.  I dismount my platoon that is securing the minor objective since it is rather exposed, the BMP-3s will be first to the objective.

Damn!  I lose two BMP-3s at the same time and I don't even know what killed them, looks like tank rounds though.  Good thing I dismounted.  This doesn't change my plans but I do am now aware of how dangerous the area around the minor objective is.  Going to move my infantry platoon in the forest next to the minor objective.  I spotted a Tunguska while the rest of my units move forward uneventfully. 

Next post will be soon, either tomorrow or the day after.

[DMS]

BMPs without commander are blind! I would advice to leave at least platoon leader mounted. Or to keep riflemen close, so they would spot and share intel.

[Erwin]

And have some sort of plan even if it's changeable (rather than a general advance and "see what happens").

[IanL]

Very cool - love AARs.

Another good way to make use of the BMP's is to put out a smoke screen. Their smoke launchers throw the smoke generators quite far forward. Two or three BMPs can create a very significant smoke screen. Even with the availability of IR sensors they can be helpful - against Ukraine very much so - they have a lot less IR sensor equipped vehicles.

[Sulomon]

11 minutes ago, Erwin said:

And have some sort of plan even if it's changeable (rather than a general advance and "see what happens").

I do have a plan even if it isn't complex, "But I assume the major objective will be the main contest and the minor objectives won't be very contested.  I send two platoons of infantry, the T-90AMs, and the grenade launchers to the center.  I send a platoon of infantry on each flank, one to secure my minor objective, the other to contest his minor objective if possible."  I am not sending units forward with no idea of what for them to do.

25 minutes ago, DMS said:

BMPs without commander are blind! I would advice to leave at least platoon leader mounted. Or to keep riflemen close, so they would spot and share intel.

Thanks for the advice!  I've seen that recently and will definitely remember to use that next time I play Black Sea.   

1 minute ago, IanL said:

Very cool - love AARs.

Another good way to make use of the BMP's is to put out a smoke screen. Their smoke launchers throw the smoke generators quite far forward. Two or three BMPs can create a very significant smoke screen. Even with the availability of IR sensors they can be helpful - against Ukraine very much so - they have a lot less IR sensor equipped vehicles.

I'll be honest I didn't know the BMP-3 had smoke!  Thanks for the info.

[Stefano Z]

1 hour ago, Sulomon said:

 

I haven't played much Black Sea (I mostly play Final Blitzkrieg)...

Please keep the T90-AMs and BMP3s buttoned.

[Sulomon]

10 minutes ago, Stefano Z said:

Please keep the T90-AMs and BMP3s buttoned.

I keep my vehicles unbuttoned generally for the better spotting.  I haven't had much issue with commander death from small arms and nearby explosions.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Sulomon

[Erwin]

Note: Depending on what equipment the vehicle possesses, it may be that it spots better when buttoned.

[Kinophile]

Buttoned. This ain't WW2. 

And dont that send BMPs into/near an urban area without scouting.  Too many hiding spots. 

If you repeat your unsupported/unscouted AFV advance with the other objectives then this wil be a short AAR

The question, of course, is if you lost valuable time dismounting the troops. Maybe you should have bull charged ASAP to the village edge, THEN unloaded... Still risky but at least then you'd have something at the village. Now, it appears those troops are in the open, lost their immediate heavy weapon support and have UKR tanks actively watching their area. 

If Oleksander is awake, I'd expect mortar fire behind your burning BMPs over the next 3-6 turns.... 

Good luck...

[Sulomon]

2 hours ago, kinophile said:

Buttoned. This ain't WW2. 

And dont that send BMPs into/near an urban area without scouting.  Too many hiding spots. 

If you repeat your unsupported/unscouted AFV advance with the other objectives then this wil be a short AAR

The question, of course, is if you lost valuable time dismounting the troops. Maybe you should have bull charged ASAP to the village edge, THEN unloaded... Still risky but at least then you'd have something at the village. Now, it appears those troops are in the open, lost their immediate heavy weapon support and have UKR tanks actively watching their area. 

If Oleksander is awake, I'd expect mortar fire behind your burning BMPs over the next 3-6 turns.... 

Good luck...

This is a small map and it's 45 minutes, didn't lose any valuable time.  And the infantry have a tank platoon 15 seconds away, they still have fire support.  As for being buttoned up I agree with you, was talking with some other people about Black Sea and MBT spotting is good to the point where unbuttoning isn't worth it.

[Sulomon]

Next post!  Sporadic combat but no major pushes.

Oleksandr starts to drop fairly heavy artillery on my minor objective, it stops my infantry platoon from entering the objective but his Bulat and other units in the forest ridges are already doing that.

Pictures of said infantry platoon and Bulat.  Modern spotting continues to surprise me!  I am not expecting forest infantry to be hit so quickly and easily.  As for the Bulat there are three that I've spotted, one in each forest hill/ridge on his side of the map, one on the left, center, and right.  The Bulat above being positioned in the forest hill on the right side of the map.

But I am not the only one to be underestimate enemy spotting.  Oleksandr moved a Tunguska up which got spotted and destroyed by one of my T-90s.

And I make the same mistake damn.  Thought my units were deep enough in the forest combined with that they weren't moving was enough to hide them.  Casualties are light fortunately, the BMP-2 only fired a couple rounds before losing sight.

Then Oleksandr moves another Tunguska forward and in the open.  One of my BMP-3 kills the Tunguska then takes fires from a BMP-2.  One of the BMP-2 rounds penetrates but surprisingly doesn't kill or destroy anything.  The BMP-2 missed or had nonpenetrations on the next severals rounds and burst.  My BMP-3 returned fire and killed the BMP-2.

Oleksandr also dismounted a platoon of infantry in the forest and I have one of my mortars platoon about to fire in that area.  The situation as a whole is fairly even despite me taking a little more casualties.  We both have similar  map control and are both setup in ridges and forest.  I have a fairly good idea of his positions, Bulats, BMP-2s, and infantry mostly in the center and right but some units on the left.  Going to do a some more recon before deciding where to attack with my T-90s.  I'm hesitant to move forward due to the multiple los' Oleksandr's units have and openness of my possible avenues of attack.  I'm not in a rush, still have a good amount of time.

Next post will be Thursday probably!  

Edited March 13, 2018 by Sulomon

[Erwin]

33 minutes ago, Sulomon said:

I am not expecting forest infantry to be hit so quickly and easily.

That's a reason CMBS is so bloody and it's hard to keep inf alive.  The ease of spotting with new tech (in CMBS at least) is brutal on the target.

[JoMac]

41 minutes ago, Erwin said:

That's a reason CMBS is so bloody and it's hard to keep inf alive.  The ease of spotting with new tech (in CMBS at least) is brutal on the target.

Yeap, even Infantry in Woods can be readily acquired due to Modern Systems...Your best bet is to have Inf hiding in Heavy Woods to give off less Thermal Signature, and only unhide to fire in ambush/close targets or at range with ATGM's.

Now, and in saying the above, I don't play Modern, but have a good idea of what's going on.

[Kinophile]

That's good advice, but of course the rub is that if hiding then your crunchies don't have LOS or any spotting value. 

This line is where US inf have such a major advantage over RUS troops (indeed, even over some of  their AFVs)  - if/when they do unhide, they are far quicker to spot, ID and engage. Add in Javelin fire/forget and you have an insanely dangerous foe - and that's just the pedestrians. 

Edited March 14, 2018 by kinophile

[Sulomon]

Next post!  Not very active, mostly listening to the sounds of Ukrainian artillery.

One of my BMP-3s gets hit by a Bulat, haven't spotted the tank but saw the round.  In any case acceptable losses for Russia.

Oleksandr begins another artillery barrage on half of the forest in next to the major objective.  Fortunately my men are in the other half and I don't take any casualties despite several minutes of bombardment.  On a related note my mortar barrage had unknown results, I didn't spot any enemy infantry so I couldn't tell if there were casualties.  They're probably in the rear of the forest so the mortar barrage was probably ineffective.

A less acceptable loss for Russia, one of my T-90s bogs down as I move to another position.  But four T-90s is good enough given the small amount of observed enemy armor.

My MG team spots some sort of infantry moving up and unsurprisingly they also get spotted and killed by a BMP-2.

Another Tunguska reveals itself and kills some of my infantry, annoying but oh well.

I'm moving my T-90s to the other side of the map.  I'm going to move them up the hill to engage in a fight with whatever units are on the opposite side of the map.  Ideally I'll kill the Bulat.  If that goes well I'll push the flank.    

I'll make three more posts, two that are ten minutes then the last post will be the last 5 minutes of the game.  Will post in 2-3 day intervals!

 

[Kinophile]

Why is Olek wasting Tungus as super heavy MGs? 

[Sulomon]

3 hours ago, kinophile said:

Why is Olek wasting Tungus as super heavy MGs? 

He's been forward with his Tunguskas in this match, don't know why though.

[Kinophile]

It's a very wasteful move. I'd use them judiciously in an urban fight, with lots if cover. And even then....

But in open country? 

 

 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Did you buy any helos to torment him with after you've swatted his Tunguskas? 

[Sulomon]

11 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Did you buy any helos to torment him with after you've swatted his Tunguskas? 

I didn't go with any air power, I haven't used airpower in Black Sea before so I decided to go units I had used before.  If I had airpower I probably would have already used it after killing the first two Tunguskas, the third one was unexpected.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Cheapo drones are a good investment to test the waters for a possible helo strike.

[Haiduk]

13 hours ago, kinophile said:

It's a very wasteful move. I'd use them judiciously in an urban fight, with lots if cover. And even then....

But in open country? 

I think, this is substitution for ZU-23 guntrucks

X-Ray vision in the game is a terrible problem, I see. No one UKR vehicle in this battle hasn't thermals, but its too easy spotted RUS troops in the forest.  

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I love SPAAGnicals, but they run out of ammo too damned fast. 

But this reminds me that there are Super-SPAAGnicals in CM:A:

Off to check out their ammo supply! 

EDIT - '>1000rnds' Oh boy! 

Edited March 18, 2018 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Sulomon]

45 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

I love SPAAGnicals, but they run out of ammo too damned fast. 

But this reminds me that there are Super-SPAAGnicals in CM:A:

Off to check out their ammo supply! 

EDIT - '>1000rnds' Oh boy! 

This thread is about Black Sea and my AAR of a battle in it, please don't derail.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Apologies.....But dude >1000rnds!