HEART OF DARKNESS AAR - MISSIONS 1 & 2

[Erwin]

This is an attempt to start a thread that will focus only on Dragonwynn's xnt CMSF campaign.  Have reposted some my earlier posts here for anyone interested in how the Missions play out.

PS:  I play ELITE WEGO. 

 

 

*************  SPOILERS *************

MISSION 1

I really like this sort of "sneaking around" missions.  The Brit force features all the light Land Rover-type vehicles as well as their "Desert Rat/LRDG" fast recon vehicles.  Snipers, 7.62 mm, 50 cals and AGL's that can be removed from the vehicles and mounted on top of buildings.  Love all that.  The Brits are however, a bit light on infantry - only one platoon of engineers (27 guys) and the rest are all HQ chaps, drivers and crews - so about 70 guys total maybe.

A bit frustrated that I lost 3 guys to mines quite early.  Problem with CM2 is that the only way to find mines/IED's is for someone to get blown up.  I thought that the area of IED's was indicated by barrels and other eye candy.  But, apparently there is no indication.

Also, I made the village to the left and close to the set-up zone as my HQ and was surprised to find a whole bunch of Taliban pop up literally under their feet.  Lost a 2-man FO team and the sniper guy from the sniper team but wiped out the Taliban.  Same thing happened a few meters in front of a couple of armed vehicles.  Fortunately all Taliban immediately killed with no loss to crews.

60 MINUTES TO GO:  Just about to take the first objective in the LHS town.  6 KIA and 6 WIA.  Seems too high % for this operation.  Can't help feeling that in RL, the Brits would pull back and have an inquiry at this point.  But, since it's a game I guess must soldier on.

55 MINUTES TO GO:  Still cautiously clearing the buildings around the first/closest objective (on the left).  I could have popped smoke and ran a guy into the "green" and out and got the Touch Objective.  But, I think that would be "gamey" and it's in the spirit of the mission that the buildings around the market be all cleared b4 we can declare the objective cleared.  I have committed the entire engineer platoon to the left flank plus a 2IC, so there is a reserve in case of more IED's, mines or ambushes.  Hopefully have flushed out the defenders of the market place.  Also a grenade thrower vehicle plus a 7.62mm vehicle are working their way down the left map edge and have flushed out an enemy HQ and uncons situated between the objective village and the Mosque objective. 

I recall that Brits don't do much recon by fire to save ammo. So am not firing at anything unless there is a target or a known enemy contact.  Someone plz correct me if I am doing this wrong.

On the right flank, have committed a couple of vehicles (one 50 cal and one 7.72mm) plus an FO, a 2IC and the Recon HQ to recon the approaches to the RHS village objective and also to clear the depression area, securing that flank.  Killed about 8 Taliban with arty in the trench.  Not sure if one should be using the 2IC, an FO or an HQ in this role.  (Plz let me know.)  But this force seems to be rich with HQ's, 2IC's and FO's and short on infantry.

All other HQ's and vehicles are in or around the small centrally located group of buildings. 

I may run out of time.  But, this pace seems right for this operation since friendly casualties are to be avoided.  Still 6 KIA and 6 WIA b4 even getting the first objective represents about 15% of my starting force(!).  So, in RL, one wonders if the operation would have been called off at this point.  Losing 3 to the mines irritates.  And it was strange to have Taliban pop up literally under the feet of my HQ and rear units causing me another 3 casualties.  But, I can understand that more.

34 MINS TO GO:  Things moving faster thank goodness.  Taken the Mosque objective.  About to take the 2nd village objective.  Also using choppers to degrade the uncons on the other ground objectives.  My only beef is that I had a recon vehicle out in the depression in the middle of nowhere and it hot a minefield!  Lost the vehicle and one survivor.  One expects mines around locations like roads, bridges, chokepoints etc.  But, in the middle of nowhere where it's incredible "luck" that anyone would ever find it??  

Lots of charges and ammo left.  I wonder if I should be using more ammo on "recon by fire?"...

Taliban surrender with about 30 minutes to go.  Got a Tactical Victory.   The Brits were literally a couple meters away from the 2nd road objective, and didn't get anywhere close to the trench complex objective. 

One issue:  Even tho' the Brits occupied the Mosque, we didn't get any points for it.  The "green area" remained even tho' it was a "Touch" objective.  I think I recall the same thing from the first time I playtested this scenario.   What's up with that?   (Jeez I hope I don't have an earlier buggy version of this campaign!!)

However, lost another vehicle to an RPG - that was plain careless.  18 guys KIA or WIA, or about 20% of my force.  That seems like it should be a loss, not any kind of Brit win.  My preference is to be penalized more heavily for friendly losses, but give the player a chance to win with minor losses.  In this Mission I seem to have "discovered" every minefield. 

At least my guys didn't stumble into the 2 IED's.

 

 

MISSION 2

My std SOP is that Recon units and long range weapons should not be used for assaults.  The snipers and recon have no business in the villages as clearly there will be restricted LOS.  From the RHS hills however, they can shoot into the villages from those hills.  So, will send the recon platoon plus the two snipers with at least one FO plus a mech platoon for back-up over the RHS hills.  (Maybe plus one engineer squad?)  Since dragonwynn is such a cunning SOB, I suspect there will be enemy defenses there.   With any luck, this force can swing left at some point and enter the center of the villages instead of fighting their way thru from the end.

The assault into the town will be conducted by the engineers, the ANA platoon, and one mech platoon.  The third mech platoon will be in reserve to go into the town or into the RHS hills.  (What the hell does the one man "Operations" unit do btw??)

Already being shot at by multiple snipers situated in the LHS hills.  Since there is no arty (why is that?) have to call for air support to sort the sniper nests out.

It makes me nervous that there is no ammo resupply.  I would like to do a lot of recon by fire, but since in CMSF we don't know how much ammo everyone carries, one can't budget bullets effectively.  Suggest that if you load up troops with extra ammo, you mention that in the briefing.  Otherwise, one has to assume regular (approx. 200 rounds/man for rifles?) and be very economical in its use.  18 charges does not feel like enuff for so many buildings, esp since the Brits had 24 charges in Mission 1 and I may have only used about 7. 

90 MINUTES TO GO:  The trickiest part was getting a foothold in the relatively protected buildings of first village without taking serious losses.  US and ANA troops have now captured the first 4 or 5 rows of houses, maybe about 20%-25% of the first village.  Am focusing on limiting friendly casualties, so the going is very careful and slow.  This would be MUCH easier in RT.  However, casualties are low so far - maybe 5-6 from the village force and 3-4 from the flanking force.  Ammo conservation may be the biggest challenge.  One ANA squad has half a bar left and will have to be pulled from the line soon.  Other units are still ok.  However, one encounters enemy units that no matter how much firepower is directed at them, they don't die and Allied units can waste a lot of ammo firing at them in one WEGO turn.  And of course in CMSF one doesn't know how much ammo a unit has until it gets low (its ammo bar starts dropping).

The village is protected by snipers and MG's on the hills on each side.  These enemy units harass the Allied force from both flanks.  A couple ANA hit by sniper fire.  A recoilless rifle on the deep far area of the RHS hills has taken out about 3 ANA as they advanced up to the first village.  Helicopter and fixed wing strikes have killed the recoilless rifle and an MG in the RHS hills.  Other strikes are degrading the MG's and snipers in the unreachable LHS hills.  Since we have to limit damage to the village buildings, all heavy aircraft ordinance is being used on the enemy units in the hills on either side of the villages.  Once the aircraft only have MG's, they can be used on the villages.

The LHS hills are impossible to reach due to terrain.  But the RHS hills have easy access.  A hillside "Task Force" comprising the recon platoon, a US inf platoon plus a sniper and an FO (with an engineer squad in reserve) has overrun several trenches - a couple were enemy occupied and a couple unoccupied.  Progress has been good - better than in the village.  The plan is to eliminate the flanking fire from the RHS hills and then turn the force and enter one of the villages from its side - thus enabling a 2nd assault on the villages instead of having to fight all the way thru in a linear fashion.

One inf platoon and an engineer squad and HQ's are all in reserve in their set-up positions.

So far, so good...

80 MINS TO GO:  Advancing through the village and reached halfway point.  No further casualties(!) since last briefing.   The RHS hill force is now level with the 2nd village and about to take out another enemy trench.  It doesn't seem worth using airpower to hit the enemy dug into the LHS hills, since with the right flank now secure, the troops can go around the buildings on their right side safely without worrying about enemy fire from the RHS hills.  

55 MINUTES TO GO:  The US and ANA took the entire of the first village, and are closing in on the 2nd village from both ends.  The main force successfully attacked linearly through the first village and is at the walls of the first house of the 2nd smaller village. 

At the same time a flanking force of the recon platoon, one mech/airborne platoon, the snipers, an FO and one engineer squad attacked through the RHS hills and took out about 6 Taliban flank guard positions which consisted of a series of earthwork trenches manned by snipers, MG's and a recoilless rifle.  Very satisfying operations as friendly casualties were low (below 10%). (Terrain made it impossible to reach the LHS hills where there were another 8 or so snipers, MG's etc.  These flanking defenses harassed the US/ANA forces but were not a significant problem.)

In the last minutes the RHS flank recon units took 4 casualties (carelessness on my part due to prior attacks being relatively easy).  This took the friendly casualty level to about 11%.  Still a satisfying result for this kind of op.

However, the enjoyment of the endgame was spoiled when at around 53 minutes to go(!), the Taliban unexpectedly surrendered even though the small village was only just about to be breached and the Taliban had about 20 defenders in it. 

Results were US 155 OK; 4 KIA; 15 WIA.  Taliban:  28 OK; 61 KIA; 33 WIA. 

The Allied force won everything - all objectives including for casualties.  The Taliban lost everything.  However, they got points for ground/terrain objectives ("Acceptable") which presumably are secret and different from what the Allies' objectives are.  As a result this was only a Minor Victory.  It doesn't seem that any points were lost for friendly casualties, so not sure how the scoring was calculated.

What worked:  The flanking attack took out the Taliban RHS harassing fire, enabling the Allied force to go to the right of the village to get around buildings.  The ANA are good for support fire - even the Green squad - they all seem to have plenty of ammo.  By luck, I completely avoided the one IED and minefield (thank goodness).  I was able to keep an entire Mech/Airborne platoon and an engineer squad completely unused and not required.  Only needed to use 6 charges to demolish building walls(!)  So, my earlier concern about not having enuff charges (or enuff small arms ammo) were unfounded. 

What didn't work so well:  Airpower was disappointing.  Repeated attacks on enemy entrenched positions degraded but did not kill.  Same with enemy on top of buildings.  Had to demolish a building once, and there still seemed to be defenders in it afterwards.  I wonder if air power is even needed in this mission.  Perhaps is we had one less US platoon and one less engineer squad, the airpower would have been more appreciated.

Overall one of the most fun scenarios I have played.  Good tactics & planning as well as careful play were rewarded.  One didn't get the feeling that traps were constantly being set to thwart the use of good tactics just to make it harder for the player.  Only disappointment was the early ending.  Very happy to have kept friendly casualties down to under 11%.

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Erwin

[grunt_GI]

Ok, so, this mission is endlessly kicking my ass, so...well, I decided to try your plan and see how it works.  

So, I used TACAIR on both the RHS and LHS hills as best I could from the get go...used a flanking force to attack RHS, and had some decent success...think I took too many forces out...almost 2 full platoons...patience is not my strong suit, so figured I would bull my way into other end of village.  That did not work so well.

My huge challenge is I can't get the first 3 objectives without taking a god-awful amount of casualties?  I play in RT, so managing everything is a chore, but how the hell do you get through the first 3 objectives without taking heavy casualties?  I use lots of covering fire, but without being able to use the ATK HELOS in the village, I am really stymied how to get past the halfway point without becoming force ineffective.  Should I stay off the main "street" and use an indirect approach?  Do you head down the street and try and use covering fire and maneuver?  I was able to move some forces down the right side, but eventually they need to get into those damn buildings.

I have tried this particular scenario 3 or 4 times and it is endless frustrating..I know I need to keep casualties low and avoid collateral damage, but damn, I really want to just level the place.   This is my one thing about playing campaigns,  I seem to get stuck on 1 mission impossible and lose interest cuz I can't seem to get past it. 

Oh, well, I guess that's why there's saved games...once more into the breach.

 

Edited August 5, 2017 by grunt_GI

[Erwin]

Firstly, one has to have patience with all CM2 games.  Yes, it's a PITA...  but it's when I get bored or impatient is when I take casualties.

2nd: one needs to use the minimum necessary force to achieve the desired result.  Putting a lot of guys in danger like a medieval attack is also a great way to take heavy casualties. 

Yes, use an indirect approach.

 

********* SPOILERS **********

 

I spent a lot of time working towards the villages making sure the initial force, maybe only a split squad, was using cover so they didn't suffer from snipers/MG's etc from either flank.  I also was careful to use max air attacks on the RHS hills since once the flank is "safe" on can move around the RHS of the village.  I did use air on the LHS hills bit found that was ineffective and a waste of HE.  However, one has a lot of air HE and I wasn't close to running out at the end.  But, recommend you make the RHS hills the prime objective for air support. 

It seemed quite easy and safe to move the recon platoon followed by one airborne/mech platoon and the snipers across the valley to the RHS hills.  Use cover as always.  Then work this force along the hills killing the Taliban defenders.  This force should be able to move much more quickly than the main force in the village. 

One has plenty of time, so go slowly and very carefully.   I did use smoke a few times to cross roads etc, but I wouldn't say that is critical.

CM2 training in MOUT is very useful/essential.  I learned by playing USMC RAMADI - RELIEF OF JOKER 3 (back in 2011!!) on the amazing Ramadi map.  Once you master MOUT on that map, I now find that building assaults are fun. 

Edited August 6, 2017 by Erwin

[grunt_GI]

10 hours ago, Erwin said:

Firstly, one has to have patience with all CM2 games.  Yes, it's a PITA...  but it's when I get bored or impatient is when I take casualties.

2nd: one needs to use the minimum necessary force to achieve the desired result.  Putting a lot of guys in danger like a medieval attack is also a great way to take heavy casualties. 

Yes, use an indirect approach.

 

********* SPOILERS **********

 

I spent a lot of time working towards the villages making sure the initial force, maybe only a split squad, was using cover so they didn't suffer from snipers/MG's etc from either flank.  I also was careful to use max air attacks on the RHS hills since once the flank is "safe" on can move around the RHS of the village.  I did use air on the LHS hills bit found that was ineffective and a waste of HE.  However, one has a lot of air HE and I wasn't close to running out at the end.  But, recommend you make the RHS hills the prime objective for air support. 

It seemed quite easy and safe to move the recon platoon followed by one airborne/mech platoon and the snipers across the valley to the RHS hills.  Use cover as always.  Then work this force along the hills killing the Taliban defenders.  This force should be able to move much more quickly than the main force in the village. 

One has plenty of time, so go slowly and very carefully.   I did use smoke a few times to cross roads etc, but I wouldn't say that is critical.

CM2 training in MOUT is very useful/essential.  I learned by playing USMC RAMADI - RELIEF OF JOKER 3 (back in 2011!!) on the amazing Ramadi map.  Once you master MOUT on that map, I now find that building assaults are fun. 

Thanks, I will give this another go.  It is becoming my CMSF white whale..I really want to conquer one of @dragonwynn's major campaigns...I usually make it 3 or 4 scenarios and then get stuck.    

MOUT is very tough for me, although I really like these types of scenarios.    Building assaults are a particular weakness of mine.  I am slowly getting the hang of a multi-prong assault with suppressive fire...I just wish CMSF has a FIRE BRIEFLY command.

Cheers  

[MOS:96B2P]

1 hour ago, grunt_GI said:

<Snip>  I just wish CMSF has a FIRE BRIEFLY command.  

Someday when we get CMSF2.  I am really looking forward to that day.  The following is what I have started to do in CMSF and CMA:   This also works inside a small (1 A/S footprint) building.  Target or Target Light and Pause for 20 or 30 seconds then add waypoint in the same or adjacent action spot with a Face command.  So they will shoot for the duration of the Pause, shift to the waypoint and stop shooting.  This helps to control ammo consumption.            

[Erwin]

Playing in RT, one should not have any problems.

But in WEGO to save ammo, one can have a unit fire but have a SLOW  (or other) move order to start after x seconds to avoid an unnecessary 60 seconds of wasting ammo.

The other method is to give a unit x seconds PAUSE before it moves to a desired firing position so that it only uses y seconds of fire B4 turn ends.

However, in my playing of Mission 2, only 3 or 4 units were getting low (and not even dangerously low) on ammo when the AI surrendered.  So ammo expenditure is not an issue here.  (And I had an entire airborne/mech platoon and two of the three engineer squads not deployed at any time!  I like having the comfort of reserves.  But, they could be eliminated from the mission and it would have made no difference the way I played.)

BTW:  The trickiest part for me was getting a foothold in the village so one gains the relative safety of the first building(s).  The first 5-10+ turns were spent carefully using the 2(?) ANA teams that are veteran, plus one AB squad plus an engineer team to scout and then BLAST into the first building (on the right side of the road).  I makes sense to avoid going into the road at all costs!   The two man ANA veteran team lost a man peering over the slope looking down the road.  But that team located the first enemy position and then it was straightforward getting into the first building and getting enuff firepower onto the first enemy position to degrade it man by man.

Only after the first building was secure did I bring up the rest of the US platoon, plus some ANA.  The ANA regulars and greens are only useful for fire support/suppression, but they can put out a lot of fire and seem to have quite a lot of ammo.  The engineers were always kept safe unless a BLAST was needed to destroy a bldg. wall.  But I only needed to use the charges from one engineer squad for the whole mission. 

My experience playing the economical Brits trained me to be very conservative re use of ammo and charges. 

But mentioned in previous post, USMC RAMADI - RELIEF OF JOKER 3 was the best training for how to conduct MOUT ops.

[grunt_GI]

58 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Playing in RT, one should not have any problems.

But in WEGO to save ammo, one can have a unit fire but have a SLOW  (or other) move order to start after x seconds to avoid an unnecessary 60 seconds of wasting ammo.

The other method is to give a unit x seconds PAUSE before it moves to a desired firing position so that it only uses y seconds of fire B4 turn ends.

However, in my playing of Mission 2, only 3 or 4 units were getting low (and not even dangerously low) on ammo when the AI surrendered.  So ammo expenditure is not an issue here.  (And I had an entire airborne/mech platoon and two of the three engineer squads not deployed at any time!  I like having the comfort of reserves.  But, they could be eliminated from the mission and it would have made no difference the way I played.)

BTW:  The trickiest part for me was getting a foothold in the village so one gains the relative safety of the first building(s).  The first 5-10+ turns were spent carefully using the 2(?) ANA teams that are veteran, plus one AB squad plus an engineer team to scout and then BLAST into the first building (on the right side of the road).  I makes sense to avoid going into the road at all costs!   The two man ANA veteran team lost a man peering over the slope looking down the road.  But that team located the first enemy position and then it was straightforward getting into the first building and getting enuff firepower onto the first enemy position to degrade it man by man.

Only after the first building was secure did I bring up the rest of the US platoon, plus some ANA.  The ANA regulars and greens are only useful for fire support/suppression, but they can put out a lot of fire and seem to have quite a lot of ammo.  The engineers were always kept safe unless a BLAST was needed to destroy a bldg. wall.  But I only needed to use the charges from one engineer squad for the whole mission. 

My experience playing the economical Brits trained me to be very conservative re use of ammo and charges. 

But mentioned in previous post, USMC RAMADI - RELIEF OF JOKER 3 was the best training for how to conduct MOUT ops.

AHHH, so I was curious about the utility of the engineers.  I wasn't sure if I could blast given the limited ROE...yea, the Afghan troops are kinda useless in the assault. (realism, eh?)  That was my assumption is that getting into that first building was key to getting that foothold...and avoiding the road...that's where I think I keep making my mistake...I need to stay off the dang road, use the engineers to blast into buildings when needed.  Thanks @MOS:96B2P  I will give that a try...I find the FIRE BRIEFLY command to be very handy in the other titles for suppressive fire.

[Erwin]

You can damage some buildings and not be penalized.  I flattened another building with heavy air strikes and I don't recall being marked down for that either.