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My CM sails are deflated once again from a CMBN campaign


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2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

I didn't mean to say your criticism has no merit. Like you, I'm more into immersion than just watching various weapons systems fire at each other. I have many of the same frustrations actually, especially with night missions etc. But I just try to skip the missions I find are somewhat poorly done so I can focus on the good ones. Luckily, many campaigns now let us cease fire and move on without too much of a penalty.

As an example, Scottish Corridor is quite generous at letting us skip what we don't like. And for every mission I didn't enjoy in that campaign, it has four or five that are well done and very challenging, I find. Nothing is perfect.

Ehhhh, something quite different: Perhaps  you two guys should try to play Bullet Points "Contact Front!" H2H scenario. Sounds like a good match to me.

And, Pericles, believe me: It is quite immersive!

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3 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Hmmm... not quite sure what you mean ? 

Since Pericles has doubts about the "immersion factor" of BN and I suggested to play H2H earlier, I proposed that he plays your Contact Front with you. You guys seem to be quite much on the same page and it would nicely show, how immersive BN can be.

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2 minutes ago, StieliAlpha said:

Since Pericles has doubts about the "immersion factor" of BN and I suggested to play H2H earlier, I proposed that he plays your Contact Front with you. You guys seem to be quite much on the same page and it would nicely show, how immersive BN can be.

Are you being sarcastic? :)

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23 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Are you being sarcastic? :)

Not at all.

I may not have been very communicative in our game, but that is the "need to know factor". I still hope to win big time.?

No, really: I think your scenario is pretty "immersive" and if you play it with Pericles, it may give him a different point of view.

Edited by StieliAlpha
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10 minutes ago, StieliAlpha said:

Not at all.

I may not have been very communicative in our game, but that is the "need to know factor". I still hope to win big time.?

No, really: I think your scenario is pretty "immersive" and if you play it with Pericles, it may give him a different point of view.

Thanks. I might release it for a public playtest after I do the ajustments based on our test game.

Meanwhile, it's available as a single player scenario. The link is in my signature. I would say the difficulty is probably medium to high (but not very high) according to player feedback.

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Bulletpoint, I agree with what you're saying about being able to skip the odd bad mission during campaigns, and the fact that Scottish Corridor was for the most part solid. 

I am about to embark on a play through of "Contact Front!". I'll report back. 

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First of all: Have you tried the German Market Garden campaign? I quite liked that one.

Secondly, on the topic of the campaigns: I have played on my Youtube channel the Russian Campaign and the German Market Garden campaign, as well as lots of other campaigns "off camera). In my eyes you can't really judge the campaigns in general, but on an individual basis.

Road to Montebourg, Scottish Corridor and Road to Nijmegen are all made by Papertiger and are similar in style. I have a love hate relationship with them. I love their attention to detail, their graphical fidelity that always seems a cut above the others, the historical correctness and the huge amount of work that obviously went into them. Most of the scenarios have force sizes that (in my eyes) are manageable in CM.

Problem is: They are hard, and not necessarily in a good way. Many people say they have too short time limits and to a degree that might be true, but I think that is not the actual problem. The problem is that they often leave very little room for error, which in CM is always dangerous because of what in commercial games is often called "RNGesus", meaning the element randomness. I have played CM turns several times and often extremely different results came from the same order. This is in itself not bad and belongs into a military simulation, but in many PaperTiger missions you feel that one mistake will f.... your whole scenario over, and by extension the campaign. Sometimes not even a mistake, but just sheer bad luck. The scenarios are designed with such little tolerances that the little annoyances of randomness and the CM engine are magnified.

This leads to frustration, especially since, as Pericles pointed out, CM campaigns represent a considerable investment of free time.

Anyway, the other campaigns he mentioned I haven't tried (yet), so I can't comment, but some short reviews of those I played (or started to play):

CM BN

Road to Montebourg - See above, but was in my eyes the best of the PaperTiger campaigns, engine changes might have messed it up. That is another danger if you script the scenarios this much, btw.

Road to Nijmegen - See above, don't think I finished it ever.

Scottish Corridor - See above, don't think I ever finished the bonus battle

Kampfgruppe Engel - Kind of in progress (had a long pause for other reasons), seems quite good so far

A moment in time - Quite good, but one unwinnable scenario that left me scratching my head as to why it was in there

CM FI

Troina Campaign - Almost bit through my laptop due to the incredibly frustrating and unfair second level. Apparently this was fixed at some point, but tbh it seemed like the whole thing was one annoying and frustrating infantry slog through artillery fire.

Monte Cassino - Same, really frustrating in a boring kind of way

Raging Buffalo - Very good campaign, varied scenarios, great maps, manageable force size, some unusual vehicles to fight against

Foiling Fustian - One of the best campaigns, very weird forces, infantry focused, interesting scenarios and maps

Conrath - Spot the at-guns, bombard them, roll through map, repeat. Rather boring, can't remember if I ever finished it, so not a good sign.

CM RT

Hammer's Flank - Good campaign, forces a bit big and "unpersonal", but some great scenarios in there. Terrain sometimes a bit boring.

So all in all a mixed bag, although I haven't played all of them and some of the ones I don't like might be good in other people's eyes. Who knows, maybe someone enjoys storming one nondescript hill after the other, so the Monte Cassino on might be right up that person's alley.

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There is a fundamental problem in that scenario designers are usually the very experienced players, so their idea of a challenge is much harder than for most regular and casual players. Also, spending weeks working on the same map gives one a very detailed understanding of the landscape that a new player won't have.

A good rule of thumb for scenarios designers could be to make a scenario you yourself would find difficult but winnable, and then cut the enemy force in half and double the amount of time the player has available.

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Ts4EVER, no I haven't tried any German campaigns. For some reason I can't bring myself to head German forces... eventually though. I prefer Commonwealth and if not then USA. Your opinion of the CMx2 WWII campaigns seems to be the same as my opinion of CMBN campaigns. Have you tried any of the CMBS campaigns? I find those better. PS I have watched and enjoyed many of your Combat Mission videos. 

Bulletpoint, I could have used a doubling of time on your "Contact Front!" scenario. Finished yesterday and in the process of preparing an AAR, which I'll put on youtube. I'll post it later today on the CMBN forum. 

 

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