Col Deadmarsh Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 I tried using grenades to remove some friendly walls, but nothing happened. You'd think that something that powerful would leave concrete in rubble. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasMorbo Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Do you mean a hand grenade? Hand grenades have an average of 50-150 grams of explosives. That is not as powerful as you might have imagined. Most hand grenades kill by concussion and/or fragmentation. These are very effective against flesh but not much against brick and even less against concrete. On top of that, an explosive device placed against a blank wall will cause hardly any damage because the pressure of the explosion will seek the easiest way - straight away from the wall. It will just make "pouff". Basic principle of physics. To overcome this, the explosion needs to have a certain strength, which hand grenades just don't offer. In one recent game I mortared a wall with an 8cm GrW 34. About 10-15 rounds did the trick. Big waste of ammo but worth it. Just a hint to what it needs to remove a wall. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 27 minutes ago, DasMorbo said: On top of that, an explosive device placed against a blank wall will cause hardly any damage because the pressure of the explosion will seek the easiest way - straight away from the wall. It will just make "pouff". Basic principle of physics. To overcome this, the explosion needs to have a certain strength, which hand grenades just don't offer. Tamping also helps; like with a sand bag or two. But that's not available in the game. BTW, I once took down a wall with a few shots from a Bradley's gun in BS. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) Poured cement, especially with rebar, is a lot more blast resistant than cinderblock or even brick. Cinder doesn't stop bullets. For WWII settings, walls are mostly brick, or in older buildings, dressed stone. A bundle of grenades would probably be needed to blast a gap. Cement formworks would be less common, and associated with military, probably not civil construction. Edited July 5, 2017 by LongLeftFlank 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 I guess I just thought grenades were more powerful. This was just a low stone wall I was trying to take out. So what is mixed with those stones to create these structures? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 (edited) Physics. Grenades are small contained charges designed to throw fragments of their casings over a wide area, not to demolish structures. Edited July 6, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 58 minutes ago, Col Deadmarsh said: I guess I just thought grenades were more powerful. They can't be too powerful or they would be impossible to throw far enough to be out of the danger zone. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasMorbo Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 8 hours ago, Michael Emrys said: They can't be too powerful or they would be impossible to throw far enough to be out of the danger zone. Michael You are not out of the effective range of a fragmentation hand grenade (100m +/- ) after throwing it (30m +/-). That is why the SOP is ducking after throwing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Wenman Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 (edited) P Edited July 6, 2017 by Pete Wenman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted July 8, 2017 Author Share Posted July 8, 2017 I just tried using a tank with a 75mm gun to take out a low wall and even that HE round would not destroy the wall on a direct hit. Surely these HE rounds would take out that structure, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) How many rounds did you fire? Which is to say, how many rounds struck the wall? Michael Edited July 8, 2017 by Michael Emrys 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xorg_Xalargsky Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 4 hours ago, Col Deadmarsh said: I just tried using a tank with a 75mm gun to take out a low wall and even that HE round would not destroy the wall on a direct hit. Surely these HE rounds would take out that structure, right? A 75mm gun will most likely take a few direct/near hits to destroy a wall, low or otherwise. Now, a 150mm on the other hand... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user1000 Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) Not sure about axis but, there is something in WW2 called an offensive hand grenade could do it. It had more TNT in it compared to a regular hand grenade, and regular grunts carried them. Edited July 8, 2017 by user1000 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 11 hours ago, user1000 said: Not sure about axis but, there is something in WW2 called an offensive hand grenade could do it. It had more TNT in it compared to a regular hand grenade, and regular grunts carried them. Maybe, but it would take more than one to do the job. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 On 7/4/2017 at 9:51 PM, Michael Emrys said: BTW, I once took down a wall with a few shots from a Bradley's gun in BS. I use the Mk-19 to the same effect in Shock Force. 14 hours ago, user1000 said: Not sure about axis but, there is something in WW2 called an offensive hand grenade could do it. It had more TNT in it compared to a regular hand grenade, and regular grunts carried them. "Offensive" hand grenades are called 'Offensive' not because they are significantly more powerful, but because they have a smaller lethal radius by using concussive force more than fragmentation to achieve their effect. This means the throwing distance is greater than the lethal radius, and can thus be used while attacking a position, by throwing grenades into it, then advancing when they detonate. "Defensive" grenades are intended for maximum fragmentation, and have much larger lethal radii, meaning they can only be used from a position of cover.http://www.wne.edu/usarmyrotc/Training/grenades.pdf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 I'm pretty sure I have seen hand grenades destroy walls in this game, but only after other HE had been going off close by, so the wall was already weakened. You can also shoot (low) walls to pieces with a 50 calibre heavy machinegun. I've even seen a .50 destroy a house once (after the area had been under 80mm mortar bombardment). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IICptMillerII Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 On 7/4/2017 at 6:22 PM, Col Deadmarsh said: I tried using grenades to remove some friendly walls, but nothing happened. You'd think that something that powerful would leave concrete in rubble. For real? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 23 hours ago, Bulletpoint said: I'm pretty sure I have seen hand grenades destroy walls in this game, but only after other HE had been going off close by, so the wall was already weakened. You can also shoot (low) walls to pieces with a 50 calibre heavy machinegun. I've even seen a .50 destroy a house once (after the area had been under 80mm mortar bombardment). Yes, exactly. Weakened walls can be completely flattened by even minor blast effects rather far away and straight through buildings. Seen that happen from WP grenades, Schreck rounds and rifle grenades, hitting the opposite side of a building. Seen that oftenly on densly built urban maps, where buildings directly adjoin action spots with walls. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasMorbo Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 On 8.7.2017 at 6:44 AM, Col Deadmarsh said: I just tried using a tank with a 75mm gun to take out a low wall and even that HE round would not destroy the wall on a direct hit. Surely these HE rounds would take out that structure, right? Map structures (trees, houses, walls) are generally too strong in CM. A 75mm grenade would certainly put a hole in a brick wall, but you need 2-3 in CMBN. Example: shoot a 75mm HE or AP shot against a tree - the round is 1/3 or even 1/2 the diameter of the tree trunk but the tree just won't fall, even after multiple hits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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