John Kettler Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) Get a load of what's in the background. Pretty certain this is PS, but if not... Does anyone know if this tank in background is possible? I have some vague recollection Russia did receive a handful of British WW I rhomboid tanks. At the very least, here's a rare shot of the T-26 flamethrower tank (kHT-26, per Wiki), albeit something of a fixer-upper. Caption is as it appears on bmashina.tumblr.com Soviet flamethrower tank HT-26, abandoned by crew near the porch of the Cathedral of Smolensk. Image Credit: Probable German WW II photo via https://bmashina.tumblr.com/page/60 Regards, John Kettler Edited June 19, 2017 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StieliAlpha Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 7 hours ago, John Kettler said: Get a load of what's in the background. Pretty certain this is PS, but if not... Does anyone know if this tank in background is possible? I have some vague recollection Russia did receive a handful of British WW I rhomboid tanks. At the very least, here's a rare shot of the T-26 flamethrower tank (kHT-26, per Wiki), albeit something of a fixer-upper. Caption is as it appears on bmashina.tumblr.com Soviet flamethrower tank HT-26, abandoned by crew near the porch of the Cathedral of Smolensk. Image Credit: Probable German WW II photo via https://bmashina.tumblr.com/page/60 Regards, John Kettler If you look closely, there are two of those "original" tanks. Don't know, if they really were still in use in WW2, but it sounds possible to me. Another thought: Is the picture from WW2, or from the Russian civil war? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUSKER2142 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 In the winter of 1941, when the Germans were only 10 km to Moscow, even cannons of the Napoleonic wars were used. The tank "To fright" (NI-1) is an improvised light tank (armored tractor), hastily designed in Odessa during the defense of the city in the summer-autumn of 1941, taking into account the capabilities of the besieged city's industry. The factories of Odessa produced about fifty such tanks, which were used by the Red Army during the defense of the city. T-16 (KhTZ) or KhTZ-16 is an ersatz tank (armored tractor), produced in 1941, during the initial period of the Great Patriotic War, at the Kharkov and Stalingrad tractor factories. It was a conventional agricultural caterpillar tractor covered with sheets of armor, Cannon and machine-gun weapons. ЗИС-30 ( ZIS-30 ) - Soviet light anti-tank . In fact, you can find many ridiculous inventions that were used in the first months of the war in a situation where there was not enough tanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) The Mk.Vs are real.....I've got a bunch more images of them but the books are too big for the scanner. These old tanks didn't do very much though, IIRC they ended up as part of a barricade. Edited June 19, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 58 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: The Mk.Vs are real.....I've got a bunch more images of them but the books are too big for the scanner. These old tanks didn't do very much though, IIRC they ended up as part of a barricade. Andy, Fascinating. Would you please list a source and perhaps a short quote, for this is new treadhead ground for me. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I'll send you a pm when I dig it out.....Might be a awhile. Some applied Google-Fu will probably find you most of the same information. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) The excellent Beutepanzer site has a whole section on the Mk.V in WWII: http://beutepanzer.ru/Beutepanzer/uk/MK_V/Mk_V.htm It seems to suggest that the tanks seen in your image are in Smolensk, they were subsequently captured by the Germans and eventually ended up in the Battle of Berlin! http://talesanecdotesandtrivia.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/estonian-vintage.html Edited June 19, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) Andy, Did not see your latest before posting, so this is reflected in what I said. Had tried a bunch of places earlier, but knowing the model, Wiki had the answer. The British sent ~70 x Mark V to support the White Russians against the Bolsheviks. Italics mine. "Approximately 70 Mark V tanks supplied by Great Britain to the White Russian Army and subsequently captured by the Red Army in the course of the Russian Civil War were used in 1921 during the Red Army invasion of Georgia and contributed to the Soviet victory in the battle for Tbilisi.[19] The last confirmed use of the Mk V in battle was by units of the Red Army during the defence of Tallinn against German forces in August 1941. The four Mk Vs previously operated by Estoniawere used as dug-in fortifications. It is believed that they were subsequently scrapped.[20] In 1945, Allied troops came across two badly damaged Mk V tanks in Berlin. Photographic evidence indicates that these were survivors of the Russian Civil War and had previously been displayed as a monument in Smolensk, Russia, before being brought to Berlin after the German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941.[1] Accounts of their active involvement in the Battle of Berlinhave not been verified.[2] Good enough for me. I'm convinced. Regards, John Kettler Edited June 19, 2017 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) In the link in my previous post there's an image of the Smolensk tanks deployed in the field at the time of their capture, so they were definitely reactivated.....I suspect they were little more than barricades in Berlin though. PS - I'd call this: & this: Pretty thorough verification of their involvement. Edited June 19, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StieliAlpha Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 On 19.6.2017 at 6:14 PM, HUSKER2142 said: In the winter of 1941, when the Germans were only 10 km to Moscow, even cannons of the Napoleonic wars were used. The tank "To fright" (NI-1) is an improvised light tank (armored tractor), hastily designed in Odessa during the defense of the city in the summer-autumn of 1941, taking into account the capabilities of the besieged city's industry. The factories of Odessa produced about fifty such tanks, which were used by the Red Army during the defense of the city. T-16 (KhTZ) or KhTZ-16 is an ersatz tank (armored tractor), produced in 1941, during the initial period of the Great Patriotic War, at the Kharkov and Stalingrad tractor factories. It was a conventional agricultural caterpillar tractor covered with sheets of armor, Cannon and machine-gun weapons. ЗИС-30 ( ZIS-30 ) - Soviet light anti-tank . In fact, you can find many ridiculous inventions that were used in the first months of the war in a situation where there was not enough tanks. You seem to know the Russian "special designs" very well. What do you make of this one here: https://stukablr.tumblr.com/image/126922265670 Is this a real pic, or a fake. Somehow, I can't believe the normal KV2 carriage would carry three stacked turrets. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Yeah that would be side ways in the ditch. I vote fake. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76mm Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Definitely fake; the original KV-II could barely move or rotate its turret, that monstrosity wouldn't be able to do either. And how exactly could you load the second and third main guns? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) Not just fake but sadly fake! I'd be willing to bet I can find the original image with some Google-Fu: And I win the bet, with just under 20 seconds effort.....I typed "Abandoned KV-2" into search and selected the images tab. Edited June 21, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StieliAlpha Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 42 minutes ago, IanL said: DYeah that would be side ways in the ditch. I vote fake. Yeah, the "out of place" Center of Gravity made me wonder, too. 4 minutes ago, 76mm said: And how exactly could you load the second and third main guns? That would be simple: Cat ladders, platforms and man handling. Not very convenient, but workable. But I agree to questioning the power availability. I don't have many numbers, but AIRC, the Tiger turret weighed 18tons. Let's assume 10tons for the KV2. That would be 30tons for this monster. To move that on ab approx 2m slew ring, you need a huge drive moment, aka power. But then, the beast probably did not want to drive anywhere, once in firing position. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StieliAlpha Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: Not just fake but sadly fake! I'd be willing to bet I can find the original image with some Google-Fu: And I win the bet, with just under 20 seconds effort.....I typed "Abandoned KV-2" into search and selected the images tab. Ok, one beer on my account!? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I really do like tanks quite a lot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StieliAlpha Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 21 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: I really do like tanks quite a lot. Do you, really? ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ts4EVER Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Also some handweapons were hastily made back then. Korovin M1941 smg Bezruchko-Vysotskiy smg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76mm Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 On 6/21/2017 at 10:53 PM, StieliAlpha said: That would be simple: Cat ladders, platforms and man handling. Not very convenient, but workable. I don't think it would be workable; I couldn't find anything online in two minutes about the size of the KVII's shells, but I suspect that they are too long/heavy to allow them to be manhandled in that kind of turret. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StieliAlpha Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 3 hours ago, 76mm said: I don't think it would be workable; I couldn't find anything online in two minutes about the size of the KVII's shells, but I suspect that they are too long/heavy to allow them to be manhandled in that kind of turret. Look under "Ammunition": https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/152_mm_howitzer_M1938_(M-10) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUSKER2142 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) Ironically, the last operation, in which KVs were used in large numbers, was the breakthrough of the Mannerheim Line in 1944. Commander of the Karelian Front, K. A. Meretskov (К. А. Мерецков ), personally insisted that his front be given exactly KV (Meretskov commanded the army in the Winter War and then literally fell in love with this tank). The survivors of KV collected literally one by one and sent to Karelia - where the career of this car once began. Edited June 23, 2017 by HUSKER2142 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) I've always had a soft-spot for the KV-85, it was a mean looking thing, but it came along just a bit too late to be particularly significant: Edited June 23, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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