klkitchens Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) Just saw a review of CMFB on Armchair General and they mentioned this series was originally a digital version of ASL, is that correct? I've come to the store page a few times before, but get a bit lost in all the options. Some are expansions to certain games and some are stand alone games (vs. a set system + expansions). So figuring CMFB was the latest and greatest, I looked at it, but am confused by the Base Game and the v4 Upgrade (for sale). If I buy the base game, am I getting the v4 engine? What is the upgrade for? People who bought CMFB previously at v3? Or is the base still v3 and I would need to pay more for a v4 upgrade? Also in some videos I'm watching, I see a lot of graphics "tearing" on the screen. I have a pretty beefy system, will I experience that too or is that because the video maker has a weaker system? I love tabletop wargames, especially at the squad level, so this looks like a good PC game for me, but like I said, a little weary walking in blind. RE: complexity... how complex is this game to play just for fun? RE: " The game does not work in a virtualized environment (virtual machine) " Does this just mean I cannot run the game INSIDE a VM or that I cannot run on a machine that also USES VMs? Edited February 24, 2017 by klkitchens 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Greetings Best try the CM demo/s to see and get a feel through some of the included scenarios. You'll also find if your 'puter is up to scratch before hitting the purchase button. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klkitchens Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, Wicky said: Greetings Best try the CM demo/s to see and get a feel through some of the included scenarios. You'll also find if your 'puter is up to scratch before hitting the purchase button. Wait what??? DEMOS!!! HUZZAH! Not worried about my computers as I stated... was worried about the game engine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) Game will run fine even if you have a VM. I have not tried it IN a VM, but I'm pretty sure that BFC has explicitly stated that none of the CM games will run in a VM environment due to limitations inherent in the DRM software. Tearing: I've never seen it. Note that the CM games use an engine unique to them. The CM games do not necessarily respond the way other games do vis a vis specific hardware. Look at the various Nvidia/AMD "improve my graphics" threads floating around. There are some simple setting changes which can make significant improvements. Complexity: the game controls are simple...once you've passed the learning curve. Again, like graphics, the CM control scheme is not like others. There is a good reason for that. I STRONGLY suggest playing WeGo (or Realtime with unlimited pauses). (I prefer WeGo.) It's best to try the demos. Remember, the demos are generally a generation or more behind the current version. So, you'll see some bug fixes and other improvements with the current version which may not be present in the demos. Good luck! Ken Edited to add: My advice to newbs is to play the smallest battle first. You'll be frustrated at your incompetence. Then, try it again. Sure, you'll have lost the element of surprise (since there is a limited variability to the enemy forces and plans), but it's not about winning, it's about learning, at this stage. Then, play it again, and again. When you win that first battle with ZERO casualties, you'll have figured out enough of the interface and tactics to progress onwards and upwards. Don't "waste" a good battle if you're not ready for it. It's a lot more pleasurable when you have an idea of how to lead your forces. (Imagine a newly minted 2nd lieutenant being put in charge of a regiment at the breakthrough location for a new offensive. He will fail. Better to start him with a simple multi-squad patrol (not even a whole platoon) and have him learn how to use the squads before giving him more responsibilities. Similarly, you should meter your own expectations. Use that first (smallest) battle as the learning tool. Repetition is your ally.) Edited February 24, 2017 by c3k 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) About complexity. You click on a unit, you hit the spacebar and a menu of commands pops on screen. Then you issue one of those commands (or a combination). The game is as simple or as complex as you want to make it. Theoretically you could issue a single group order for everyone to march to the far side of the map and do nothing else, watch the action unfold in realtime. Some players describe spending hours meticulously planning out complex movement commands for each unit for each 1 minute. To each his own. Basic advice on gameplay. This isn't a twitch shooter game. Running & shooting faster than the other guy (or the AI) doesn't often win a battle. Real world common sense goes a long way. Would YOU walk across an open field into the teeth of a hidden enemy machinegun? Then maybe your pixeltruppen shouldn't either. Edited February 24, 2017 by MikeyD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 35 minutes ago, klkitchens said: . RE: complexity... how complex is this game to play just for fun? Imo when it comes to using and understanding the UI and basic game mechanics the game is not very complicated. You will learn this quickly. When it comes to winning a battle...Things get's a bit more complicated. Where the combat mission games shines are REALISM ! You will need to use your head to plan out your attack and to the best of your ability use somewhat correct military tactics atleast... Battlefront have gone to great lenth to make sure to provide us with as historically (and currently ) correct TOEs, OOBs and what not... Every piece of equipment is modeled with very high level of detail both when it comes to looks as well as performance (both offensivly and defensivly). If you are looking for a realistic, tactical wargame you will find no better. This is not a 'fantacy game' set in WW2 setting...It is something quite different and that's what sepperates the combatmission games from things like MEN OF WAR or COMPANY OF HEROS for example. This is much, much better... In my oppinion offcourse... This forum is very friendly to newcommers and demanding on Battlefront. If some piece of equipment does not look or perform 'right' Battlefront will most certanly hear about it. On the other hand If you as a newcommer have some trouble getting started or have some questions about different tactics to use some other things it will usually not take long Before some of the veterans players lend a helping hand. My recomendation would be...BUY IT ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niall78 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Just replying to the war-gaming part of your post KlKitchens. As a tactical battle 'simulator' the CM series has no competitor. It is simply light years ahead of anything else on the market. It is the dream of us old hex and chit gamers when we first realised the potential of computers for our hobby decades ago. It's ASL brought to life. It's simply a war-gaming grogs dream game system. It is simply amazing what this system can offer. Platoon through to multi-battalion sized fights with a historically accurate ToE covering a multitude of nations and combat formations. Every man, bullet and shell tracked in-game. Morale, leadership and communication all tracked in-game. It doesn't get better than this for the war-gamer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, klkitchens said: Just saw a review of CMFB on Armchair General and they mentioned this series was originally a digital version of ASL, is that correct? I've come to the store page a few times before, but get a bit lost in all the options. Some are expansions to certain games and some are stand alone games (vs. a set system + expansions). So figuring CMFB was the latest and greatest, I looked at it, but am confused by the Base Game and the v4 Upgrade (for sale). If I buy the base game, am I getting the v4 engine? What is the upgrade for? People who bought CMFB previously at v3? Or is the base still v3 and I would need to pay more for a v4 upgrade? Also in some videos I'm watching, I see a lot of graphics "tearing" on the screen. I have a pretty beefy system, will I experience that too or is that because the video maker has a weaker system? I love tabletop wargames, especially at the squad level, so this looks like a good PC game for me, but like I said, a little weary walking in blind. RE: complexity... how complex is this game to play just for fun? RE: " The game does not work in a virtualized environment (virtual machine) " Does this just mean I cannot run the game INSIDE a VM or that I cannot run on a machine that also USES VMs? The upgrades are for pervious purchases. If you buy CMFB now, the version you download will be fully up to date. That is true for most titles (CMFI is in the process of getting that treatment, CMSF is an older title you'll have to patch) Regarding the history, to a degree yes, but it is not directly a digital version of ASL. Neither historically or in game design. This is especially true for CMx2, the current family of games. You'd have to google for some of Steve's discussions on the history of Big Time Software for the full history. As to complexity, what others have noted is spot on. You can make it as complex as you want. Personally I like getting down in the trenches with my pixeltruppen. I split squads routinely and micro manage their movements rather than rely on commands like "assault". You don't have to, it is a matter of choice The game rewards patience and attention. Take a run at the demos and you can can decide for yourself if it is for you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klkitchens Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 OK so... mid first demo session update. WOW! same rule for boardgames applies to me with digital games. if I have fun losing, it's a great game because just playing is the fun. And right now, this one is fun. Stumbled my tanks into a trap right off and whammo... and then: THE CREW BAILED OUT!!! What a detail! Found the bloody Panzerschrek doing the damage and now have to put him down. But very cool. Reminds me of the joy I had playing the original Close Combat series back in the 90s. Not saying they are the same, but the fun for me is. Got the Normandy "demo" and it says v3. Is the v4 engine a lot better in terms of graphics, etc? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Oh boy, klkitchens, I can tell by that last post you are going to go ape sh*t over CMx2! Have blast...as most others here have, I've been having one for almost 6 years now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klkitchens Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, mjkerner said: Oh boy, klkitchens, I can tell by that last post you are going to go ape sh*t over CMx2! Have blast...as most others here have, I've been having one for almost 6 years now. CMx2 ? Nevermind! next-gen CMx2 engine based games Edited February 24, 2017 by klkitchens Ignorance correction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 AAhh...Close combat ! Close combat 3 was the first tactical wargame i ever played. I to enjoyed that very much back in the days. I remember dreaming back then... " If only there could be something simular... BUT IN FULL 3d ! Oooh well i guess that would be asking to much "... But then by chans i saw some pictures of Combat Mission Barbarossa to Berlin on some forum i was just skimming through... " My god ! What is this... " I remember spending many evenings reading AARs i found posted on various internet pages drouling about this game. Back then i did not know that you could buy this game on-line ( perhaps you could not ) so i searched every computer-game store i could find in the area where i live to try and find a copy of the game... Finally i found one. I have been stuck ever since. Regarding graphics... Improvements are constantly being made and V4 will have slightely better graphics then V3 but nothing major. The two game-engines are pretty simular as far as graphics goes. Graphics are not combat missions greatest selling argument though...You will find prettier games out there... but more enjoyable...No, i don't think so. It's a matter of taste offcourse what is 'better' graphics but there are a great numberr of mods avaliable for download (for free) that in my oppinion significantelly improves some of the graphics in this game... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klkitchens Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 Speaking of mods are there camera control mods? That's the one discomfort I'm having right now. I know what the keys are, but they aren't intuitive to me as a long time user of games and graphics software. For example, I expect mouse scroll to zoom in and out. Right click and mouse to rotate, etc... Nothing I cannot get used to but very happy for the pause and play!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 There are several different controll options to choose from in the settings menu i belive... As well as the possibility to customize many of the function keys... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 One more thing...If you are in the mood for some 'bedtime' Reading i recomend that you check out the AAR threads avaliable on these forums (often as sticky threads at the top of the various game pages) one example here... These will give you a nice taste of what the game is like and as a bonus...many good tips from the pros... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 CMx2 is this version of the Combat Mission engine, kitch. There was a CMx1 that started it all many years ago. It was scaled a bit differently. CMx2 came out about 2007 with CMSF, a hypothetical modern war set in Syria. Anyway, we can all tell you're already hooked, lol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Malan2 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 The first time I had that 'wow' moment was when I drove a Sherman down a road(very soon after purchase). I suspected there was trouble off to my left, so was hiding behind houses. Then I got to a gap, that I strongly suspected might be in LoS of something bad. I play non-RT, so game is waiting for orders... decide to risk a quick dash across the gap to the next cover. Its only 20-30m I think... Order the move and position the camera to see the tank close up. Hit the red button. tank rolls forwards picking up speed. Half way across... 3/4. Then 'BANG-CLANG'. A shell comes over my shoulder and hits the Sherman. 'Oh no!'. But wait, tank is still moving... gets to cover and halts. But then I see all the casualties, and only 2 men jump out. I go from hope to gloom to hope to despair in about 5 seconds. I was totally blown away that the tank keeps moving until it coasts to a halt when hit. This was before the penetration graphics, but these days I would have a nice 75mm hole in the side of the tank as well. I watched that video several times, from the tank, it was that good. Oh and a couple of minutes later saw the villain of the piece... 75mm ATG in the wood line a few hundred meters off. I had been right to be suspicious all along! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Excellent story! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 On 2/24/2017 at 0:50 PM, klkitchens said: Just saw a review of CMFB on Armchair General and they mentioned this series was originally a digital version of ASL, is that correct? No. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 On February 24, 2017 at 10:50 AM, klkitchens said: Just saw a review of CMFB on Armchair General and they mentioned this series was originally a digital version of ASL, is that correct? Not exactly. Twenty-plus years ago, Big Time Software—the precursor to BFC—had an arrangement with Avalon Hill, the producers of SL and ASL. Avalon Hill had published three of BTS' air games, and now AH wanted them to do a digital version of ASL. BTS already had an idea for an original design for a ground tactical game that they wanted to pursue. AH thought that BTS would do the ASL game and had even advertised to that effect, and for a while there was a misunderstanding as to what was going on. Eventually that was straightened out and there was a more or less amicable parting of the ways. BTS went on to become BFC and produced CM. AH went on to bankruptcy and was bought out by a company I won't name who produced shoddy goods. A great tragedy, that. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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