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Separatist push/Ukraine shove back


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@DMS,

What's the point of arguing? :) Better focus on way more telling facts than the fate of one schoolhouse. Like Petro Poroshenko official speech that UKR should continue paying DNR/LNR for the coal mines production (should be to the tune of tens if not hundreds millions USD p.a.). Quite an obvious approach: UKR asks EU/US to prop up its fragile economy with their taxpayers monies then pays to DNR/LNR to go on with the war - everyone's profiting :D Or an influential Assistant Head of Administration of Ukraine Arms Export Monopoly appoints his brother as the head of the biggest tank production facility. The Administration is officially responsible for evaluating performance of subordinate business units so it's logical one brother would give most honest evaluation to the other :D Especially if one looks at how successful this bunch of guys were at rebuilding UKR military industry what in their case amounted to selling the best of Soviet tank leftovers to Africa right in the middle of most intense fighting :D Just at the time UKR was pleading to EU/US for free-of-charge military equipment deliveries. Again quite logical - UKR profits from selling its own equipment, EU/US pay for replenishment. Show must go on! :D

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you've been down this road before. I know folks want an update from Steve about the patch but in all likelihood comments like yours will draw his attention sooner.  He has a low tolerance for Russian

Russia definitely has ulterior motives in Ukraine. The Donbass has been so extensive that rebuilding/integrating it into Russia would be a huge economic drain on Russia. If they really wanted to "prot

16th March SMM OSCE UAV spotted Russian EW systems R-330Zh ("Zhytel") and newest "Tirada-2", which only in this year will go into service, but already succsessfully taken from "coal mine" on Donbas.

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53 minutes ago, IMHO said:

 to selling the best of Soviet tank leftovers

T-72A/AV/B. Which were decomissioned from service since 2007-2008. Good trolling.

53 minutes ago, IMHO said:

ust at the time UKR was pleading to EU/US for free-of-charge military equipment deliveries.

Radios, about half-hundred of counter-mortar radars, 2000+ nightvision glasses for VDV, 72 UAVs. And yes, we want Javelins. Yes this is the same as mothballed tanks. Bravo. Next good trolling.

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2 hours ago, Haiduk said:

T-72A/AV/B. Which were decomissioned from service since 2007-2008. Good trolling.

So do I understand correctly that your point is the tanks sold were of inferior quality to whatever equipment UKR forces were trying to put to use in those times so there was no place for them on frontlines? :)

2 hours ago, Haiduk said:

Radios, about half-hundred of counter-mortar radars, 2000+ nightvision glasses for VDV, 72 UAVs. And yes, we want Javelins. Yes this is the same as mothballed tanks. Bravo. Next good trolling.

Do you mean what was requested or what was received? :)

And speaking of "propaganda" we can go over UKR TV fabulous reporting on how UKR army is getting better and better by the day then match it against the state budget appropriations and what UKR army ACTUALLY gets in the end :) So that EU/US would better understand why Ukrainian weapons "moguls" need so many state-paid foreign travels while the country is allegedly in a state of war :D

Or and by the way it might be of interest to passers-by that DNR/LNR while valiantly fighting UKR forces still continue to pay taxes to UKRAINIAN budget from economic activity on their territories :)

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1 hour ago, Haiduk said:

And yes, we want Javelins

'Want' and 'have' are different stories. I think you getting them would lead straight into Russian discovery of 'moderate' talibans and necessity of giving Houthis some better anti ship and anti air capabilities to fend off aggressors.

 

2 hours ago, IMHO said:

its fragile economy

Its ruined economy and poverty. Fixed.

http://zik.ua/en/news/2016/11/23/ukraine_sinking_deeper_into_poverty__expert_996187

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Heh... An interesting turn of events with Nadezhda Savchenko who is an Ukranian MP :) She was allowed to visit UKR POWs on DNR side. Compiled a list of POWs for the exchange, inspected two POWs camps - said one was good, the other - terrible. Voila, a case of high treason is opened against her. I remember the words about people in need of "mind-cleansing"... :D:(

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54 minutes ago, kinophile said:

@IMHO didn't you agree a few pages back to back off with the needling and just stay with the topic on hand? 

Can't resist? Or gotta pay the rent? ☺️

May we come back one step? :) I mean Haiduk's reporting was obviously interesting for many people here. Just we're worlds apart on the topic so each time it moves from the field of war into the realm of politics it inflames emotions :( On both sides :(

PS But to be honest I just wanna save on rent ;)

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7 hours ago, IMHO said:

@DMS,

What's the point of arguing? :) ...

Wow, what has all that got to do with the fighting at the front line? Even if some small amount of that is accurate, which I doubt give how much BS you guys are posting, the bottom line is still that Putin's government is responsible for the invasion and occupation of Ukraine and the Ukrainian government should be able to resist that invasion. Pointing out imperfections in the response is not really the business of Putin it's the business of the Ukrainian people and government. 

Putin Bot? Sure looks like it.

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Looks like Ukrainin troops have took Donetsk water filtering station (DFS) under control.

Some chronicle of this:

- during the night of 23rd of Feb DFS (stands on neutral zone) was hit by DNR artillery or mortar fire. 

- 24th Feb director of DFS made statemant, that personnel is evacuating and station is stopping work.

- At 14:30 of 24th Feb OSCE mission moved in Yasynuvata (under DNR control) in order to launch UAV for monitoring of DFS shelling. DNR fightres threated to OSCE members with weapon and seized their UAV, after this shot several times in patrol direction: http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/301766

- In the night from 24th on 25th Feb UKR troops, looks like detachment of security battalion of 55th artillery brigade (former 39th motorized infantry battalion "Dnipro-2"), seized abandoned DFS and was establishing own positions around.

DNR "official representatives" already confirmed this fact. Ukrainan side keep silence. 

Last night our positions on Donetsk direction were under very intensive artillery fire with 122-152 mm, especially Donetsk airport outskirts and positions around Avdiivka. HQ prohibited to open return artillery fire (possibly because of Savchenko and Ruban mission in Donetsk). In twitters soldiers were angry on that. 16 WIA and almost no one our artillery shot.

Here the map with allelgible lines of control of both sides. DFS is on east side from Avdiivka

  

Без-назви-1.jpg

UPD: Neither Ukrainain officials, neither locals/soldiers/volunteers in twitter/FB nor OSCE didn't confirm to this time seizing of DFS by UKR troops. Possibly this can be provocation or informational background to some other actions - reportedly several DNR (Russian?) vehicles of chemical defense were moved to Yasynuvata outskirt. DFS has reservoir with 6 tons of chlorine and DNR speakers claimed "Ukrainian troops plundered equipment of station and can damage tanks with chlorine or even make chemical attack" 

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11 minutes ago, John Kettler said:

Some videos of the fighting, I think. The first was posted February 27, 2017. Note unique mining equipment! 

These are old videos (2014-2016), so, its better to post in  Recent combat vids from Ukraine thread: 

 

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9 minutes ago, John Kettler said:

Haiduk,

As is altogether too frequent, I'm confused. Are you saying one, both, or all three are old videos? How am I to tell, since I speak neither Russian nor Ukrainian? I'll post where you suggest, but from their captions, I'd say my mistake was understandable.

Regards,

John Kettler 

Yes, all three it's a mix of various combat episoded throughout 2014-2016. On first video is a summer and Uragan salvo - this is 100 % 2014 year. Second video filmed by DNR side. What "mining equipment" do you mean ? 

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Haiduk,

That was me being extremely sardonic. Was referring to the MRL, the Msta-Bs, D-30s and Vasileks--all standard coal mining equipment, right? There seems to be vanishingly little concern of CM/CB in every single case, as evidenced by lack of dispersion between the guns and mortars and any kind of protection around them. I knew the second video was from the DNR. Meant to mention the 14.5 mm ATR in the front of it, but got distracted and forgot. One thing which really stood out for me was how the various shots' reports echoed. 

Regards,

John Kettler

 

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21 minutes ago, cool breeze said:

 

IMHO has been here since 2000 so I think him working for Putin as a propaganda agent  is unlikely

 

No you are just falling victim to Kremlin propaganda! He is surely Putin's bot. Russian hacked USA elections, hacked power plants, they even seduced your democrat daughters to vote on Trump. God I know what you think when bulb in your basement burns out...

2 hours ago, IanL said:

the bottom line is still that Putin's government is responsible for the invasion and occupation of Ukraine and

Nuland would be pretty pissed you give all the credit to Putin and blatantly try to depreciate her hard work and role in removal of democratically elected president.

Bottom line is you should stop this mantra. It's getting old. Everyone pretty much knows your stance on this conflict, no need to reiterate.

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20 hours ago, IanL said:

Even if some small amount of that is accurate

It's all accurate and with proofs from UKR side - otherwise I'd been corrected by Haiduk or kinophile. Another very telling incident you cannot find in Western media. An armed group of Crimean Tartars attacked 34th battalion of 57th brigade of Ukranian Armed Forces on Feb, 13. UKR Armed Forces ran over their camp in retaliation, confiscated weapons (including MGs and RPGs) and UKR Armed Forces issued an OFFICIAL statement about an illegal group disarmed. Now brace yourself... The next day the major of Ukrainian Army who commands 34th battalion is officially filmed issuing an apology for confiscating illegal weapons and, obviously, returns them :D Crimean Tartar "patriotic battalion" is still absolutely officially illegal in UKR and refuses to take orders from any branch of UKR armed forces but is allowed to operate at will :D So as I said before, if one just had to speak to Petro Poroshenko and UKR Armed Forces - it will be over in a day. The problem is UKR frontlines are more like Lybia or Syrian Sunni rebels - every guy with as much as a handful of armed men has his own political agenda, the idea of when to shoot and when not, the way to collect "grassroots" levies to feed his men etc. Proofs (all UKR sources - google translate may help):

UKR Armed Forces statement: https://www.unian.net/society/1773696-v-vsu-prokommentirovali-zahvat-bazyi-kryimskotatarskogo-batalona-vblizi-kryima.html

UKR Major apologizing https://youtu.be/oXLfNZtP2nk

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6 hours ago, IMHO said:

The problem is UKR frontlines are more like Lybia or Syrian Sunni rebels - every guy with as much as a handful of armed men 

I'm already thicking of your trolling posts. Repeat more Basurin's fairy tales about "uncontrolled nazi battalions", which seized water filtering station yesterday. What "every guy with weapon" ? Give a list here of these uncontrolled "armed men"!

Statement of MoD is just information pressure on crimean tatar unit - all "attempt of attack" is just werbal and push-pull bickering, when tatars fighters were checking civil transport, which drove to Crimea and troopers of 34th came to ask "who are you guys and who ordered you to do this?" Bickering finished with several warning shots in the air and police arriving, which confiscated all weapon of "Asker". Yes, this was real war ! )

One of tatars leader Isliamov want that battalion "Asker" (hm... less then hundred men) was recognized officially and officially armed. But MoD don't want to hear about any separate national units, so offer only to include "Asker" in 36th Marines brigade as company or battalion depending on how much people they will enlist.    

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I do find it interesting that the ONLY info coming into this thread on a regular basis is from Haiduk (thank you very much Haiduk and please keep it up). To Kinophile's point the only participation from folks here presenting a pro Russian side is to constantly challenge any data that impugns Mother Russia.  Part of me can't help but feel that is because if the pro Russian side started actually ponying up with their side's data we'd all spend the rest of the day giggling over the sheer stupidity of the alt facts world.

I for one would actually like to see the alternate perspective.  I fully expect those would be challenged just as they challenge Haiduk- let's see you guys defend your sources.

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34 minutes ago, Ashez said:

I think you should ask Haiduk to get you passage to Ukraine. Amazing how much you all know without ever being there.

Haiduk, btw: are you a member of right sector?

See, mate, you're just being contrarian, aggressive and obstinate.  You're not contributing to any discussion with these statements.

--

IMHO, even your source about the seizing of the weapons includes an official UAF statement saying (excuse the bad grammar, Google Translate and I don't want to fix it up):

"The message of the attack on the Armed Forces of Ukraine public organization" Asker "is nothing but a fake, and the next attempt to discredit the Armed Forces of Ukraine", - the report says.

"Сообщение о нападении ВСУ на общественную организацию "Аскер" является ничем иным, как очередным фейком и попыткой очернить Вооруженные Силы Украины", - отмечается в сообщении.

So it sounds like the official Ukrainian line is that they confiscated weapons and equipment, but no attack ever took place like you described.  But I may be wrong, my Russian is very poor, and definitely augmented by machine translation.

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