Separatist push/Ukraine shove back

[Haiduk]

Just interest information - in battle on Svitodarsk bulge for VOP "Kikimora" were involved total 156 Ukrainan troopers (w/o distant support), 63 of them were from 25th motorized infantry battalion. 9 KIA, 70 WIA, traumatized, shell-shocked (2/3 of them slightly, about 50 % of total number of injured have rejected from medical threatment and weren't in official WIA count)

In battle around VOP "Almaz" near Avdiivka, enemy launched on our position and on the city 7500 of heavy ammunition - from 82 mm to 152 mm and Grad rockets.

Level of front activity of course have reduсed, but fire exhenges are continuing, almost every day we are loosing our men. Yesterday were active clashes near Dokuchaivsk, but w/o advance - just very intensive skirmishes, though locals thought UKR forces already come to the town. 

Edited February 21, 2017 by Haiduk

[Kinophile]

I'm curious, @Haiduk -  over the last 6/12 months, most of the UKR  advances seem to have occurred in the central segment of the front line,  ie the Donkoye, Donetsk,  Alchivsk arc. 

Very little (in comparison) in the Marioupol sector. 

Is this a correct view? 

If so,  why is Marioupol less active? More difficult terrain? Less useful lives of advance? Or the front us too close to the city to justify advancing and then causing separatist arty strikes? 

[Haiduk]

39 minutes ago, kinophile said:

If so,  why is Marioupol less active? More difficult terrain? Less useful lives of advance? Or the front us too close to the city to justify advancing and then causing separatist arty strikes? 

Cenral area (Joint Tactical Group "Donetsk") has widest "grey zone", where we can advance forward without formal violation of Minsk aggrements because we just recapturing our conrol zone and moving to 19 Sep 2014 demarcation line. There are also several key points, control over its can significantly influence on DNR logistic and operative situation. For example, advance in Avdiivka area completely stop traffic on M-03 highway Donetsk-Yasynuvata-Horlivka. Now in order to reach Horlivka, enemy vehicles are driving long hook through Makiivka - Yenakieve - Zhdanivka. Also Debalteseve - our forward units already in 6 km from the city outskirts. 

Mariupol direction has two hot places - Maryinka (periodical heavy skirmishes), Dokuchayevsk - Olenivka area (our troopers say they easy can take this town, but no political will to give an order, though Dokuchayevsk must be under our control by Minsk-1). Front line now about in 20-25 km from eastern outskirts, so enemy arty can't hit this city, but sometime shelling nearby settlements - Sartana and Talakivka. Though enemy can reach Mariupol with MLRS

In last time activated warfare near height 73, which defends western outskirts of Kominternove (new name Pikuzy). Height has a garrison some less a company and has support of mortrars and sometime arty/MLRS. Our marines tried two weeks ago to seize height 73, but were repelled (reportedly 2 WIA, one armor damaged). Since that in that area only position skirmishes. Seizing of Kominternove will not give to us any advantage, further task have to be advancing and catching lateral road Zaichenko - Sakhnka, but these villages have heave VOPs and this will be large operation, which will have unwanted resonance among our "deeply concerned" european allies... So, from military point Donetsk direction will be main in "crowling offensive" tactic.   

Edited February 22, 2017 by Haiduk

[Vanir Ausf B]

Oops, wrong thread

Edited February 22, 2017 by Vanir Ausf B

[John Kettler]

Haiduk,

7500 mortar, artillery and rocket projectiles fired upon Ukrainian forces in the fight and into the city?  Egad! The mind-bending fraction of combat psych casualties, as part of overall losses you report from the various fights, says everything which needs to be said about the terrible stresses modern battle imposes on soldiers. I suspect a considerable number of those psych cases are men with blast brain, which I've previously discussed. The Israelis are teaching the American authorities how to prevent PTSD as much as possible, effectively treat the shell-shocked on the battlefield and help those who wind up with PTSD heal as they reintegrate into society. Great article here. One thing about how the IDF treats the shell shocked soldier is never to evacuate the physically unhurt out of the sound of the guns. Their buddies come visit, and right from arrival, the soldier is told he will be going back to his friends in the unit. Why? The Israelis, as of some decades ago when I first read about it, have learned the hard way that a soldier sent home shell shocked is a soldier the IDF will never get back. Just as trauma medicine has its golden hour, so, too, is there apparently a window in which a traumatized soldier, unless, say, catatonic or off his rocker, can be given a chance to regroup, receives a hot shower or bath, a fresh uniform, a hot meal, priceless uninterrupted sleep, support from a bunch of sources and always be given the repeated, no nonsense expectation he will soon return to his buddies. "Yes, you're kind of banged up now, but you'll be going back to your unit in a bit after we get you sorted out. Won't that be nice? Don't worry. You'll be fine." If your military hasn't looked into this already, someone needs to get cracking. 

Regards,

John Kettler

[Wicky]

43 minutes ago, John Kettler said:

...is never to evacuate the physically unhurt out of the sound of the guns....given ... priceless uninterrupted sleep,

[John Kettler]

Wicky,

I don't speak emoji worth a hoot, but I think you're poking fun at me by juxtaposing artillery fire with uninterrupted sleep. If so, what I was trying to say is that the IDF evacuates casualties rearward far enough away that they're out of artillery range but haven't entirely left the battle area. Soldiers can and will sleep anywhere and any time. When my brother and my sister were in Civil Air Patrol, there was a senior guy who was a Nam vet. He was stationed at a firebase, during which he used to blissfully sleep on an air mattress right by the mortar pits. All night the fire missions would be shot. Didn't disturb him in the least. AK shots be heard, though, and he was off his bed in an instant, AR-15 in hand and head swiveling frantically to find out what was going on and where. From what I can tell, distant artillery is kind of a sonic background for the combat soldier's battlefield life. It's just there and is normal. Incoming is another matter entirely.

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited February 22, 2017 by John Kettler

[LukeFF]

Source?

[Kinophile]

Very interesting approach, JK. 

Thank you Haiduk. 

[Erwin]

"...can be given a chance to regroup, receives a hot shower or bath, a fresh uniform, a hot meal, priceless uninterrupted sleep, support from a bunch of sources and always be given the repeated, no nonsense expectation he will soon return to his buddies. "Yes, you're kind of banged up now, but you'll be going back to your unit in a bit after we get you sorted out. Won't that be nice? Don't worry. You'll be fine."

I need this TLC after visiting my mother. 

Edited February 23, 2017 by Erwin

[Kinophile]

3 hours ago, Erwin said:

I need this TLC after visiting my mother. 

Holy God that's funny 

 

[Haiduk]

1V13 ACRV (command and FO vechicle of arty battlion commander) of 72nd brigade, destroyed by direct artillery or mortar hit during battle for VOP "Almaz" near Avdiivka. Since 1Vxx vehicles use  rare by own direct purpose for FO missions, this one used for logistic tasks and evacuation of injured soldiers.

Here it in Avdiivka

... And since several days near "Tsar's hunting" recreation complex in 500 m from VOP "Almaz", captured by UKR troops, Fortunately, no casualties.

Today separs celebrating 23rd Feb - Soviet army holiday and decided to congratulate Ukrainian troops too - the post of Russian volunteer Zhuchkovskyi

 

Translation: We have congratulated Ukrainans with 23rd of February. With largest caliber. Keep yourself, all the best, good mood, health

Our troops have returned many thanks. Also post of separatist fighter: 

Translation: DNR, Zaytsevo /Horlivka outskirt/. Serious escalation. In 6-00 heavy artillery shelling started. On 18-00 we have 8 KIA, number of WIA unknown. If in the morning losses were only because of artillery fire, then in second half of the day we have losses becaise of bullet wounds. There is tough fight, not all managed to evacuate. I don't know either DNR artillery possivle to answer or not. For Zaytsevo, alas, this is normal situation. This is Ukrainian army in such way congratulated militants with 23rd of February

About week ago after enemy recon group probe and mortar shelling on positions in our part of Zaytsevo, was killed one soldier of 25th airborne brigade and one was heavy wounded in the head by sniper and died since two days in hospital. Looks lile this is revenge - as if our heavy artillery today could hit directly building of Zaitsevo school, which enemy turned out in heavy fortified strongpoint. Long time we shelled outskirts of this scholl only with heavy infantry wepon because after each shelling Russian TV was making next reportage how "chesteners of junta again shelled children in the scholl". But today possibly was received permission on artillery strike on building.

On satellite photo you can see fortified area around this school building. There is a system of trenches and two strongpoints on crossroads. Ukrainian positions are west in neighbor Zhovanka village. Also some westren, beyond edge trench, two more trenches are situate and several as well as several minefields.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Haiduk

[HerrTom]

3 hours ago, Haiduk said:

... And since several days near "Tsar's hunting" recreation complex in 500 m from VOP "Almaz", captured by UKR troops, Fortunately, no casualties.

 

Wow, glad and amazed no one was hurt!

[John Kettler]

Haiduk,

That ACRV is so big it looks like a public monument. By eyeball estimate, I'd say it's taller than any tank, therefore likely to be seen. The latest combat details are most useful, but I must say that the big bold proxy guy's message so out shouted what followed that my eye missed the distinction in the relatively tiny type which followed between the translation in Italics and where your own commentary began. Had to read everything twice to catch that and was first pretty confused as to what was being said and who was doing what to whom. I now understand that it is your side which is dealing with the propaganda imposed constraints of striking a fortified hospital and associated field fortifications covering the road junction. As for the ACRV After shot...

For Sale. One pre-owned ACRV, low miles. Bit of a fixer-upper, but a great starter command vehicle. Will need  electronics update and some minor body work. Serious inquiries only!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Haiduk]

6 hours ago, HerrTom said:

Wow, glad and amazed no one was hurt!

When arty starts to fire, the best way to save yourself is to run and hide to any pit, cellar of building or blindage. To be inside standing armor under shelling is very bad idea. Fragments of 122-152 mm or Grad sometimes penetrate even side hull armor of a tank.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Haiduk

[DMS]

9 hours ago, Haiduk said:

after each shelling Russian TV was making next reportage how "chesteners of junta again shelled children in the scholl"

Can you give a link to the youtube video? What TV channel, what time and date? (No politic in this question, I think)

[Kinophile]

You can't just let it be? Can't just search out contrasting  info from the Separatist/Russian side? Can't just, yourself,  link to DNR articles/photos that counter Haiduk's info? 

The constant challenging,  with rarely any countering info (eg your previous photos of UKR shelling into Donetsk suburbs are 100% valid) is wearing thin. 

Please provide external info, rather than just constantly trying to eat away at Haiduk/UKR credibility. 

We're all very, very aware UKR information should be taken with caution,  just as Haiduk's info should be viewed as inherently biased (he is Ukrainian after all). But his stuff is verifiable -  which it regularly has been. Our Russian friends, on the other hand,  very rarely provide anything checkable - just opinion,  accusations, negative comments and sometimes raw propaganda. 

The incessant attempts to poke holes and drag down reputation is, to me, but subtle trolling and inherently negative, non-constructive and well, maybe worst of all, just aggressively boring. 

Please Provide info,  rather than knee-jerk attempting to knock down. 

Contribute, dont just Detract. 

Edited February 24, 2017 by kinophile

[Kinophile]

https://dninews.com/article/lugansk-defense-weekly-situation-report-24022017

Luhansk,  they claim 1500 arty impacts, various calibers &  weapons. 

Also claim that 82mm mortars are contrary to minsk 2, yet it lists only 100mm as requiring withdrawal.

Edited February 24, 2017 by kinophile

[HerrTom]

8 hours ago, Haiduk said:

When arty starts to fire, the best way to save yourself is to run and hide to any pit, cellar of building or blindage. To be inside standing armor under shelling is very bad idea. Fragments of 122-152 mm or Grad sometimes penetrate even side hull armor of a tank.

Indeed, saw that much to my surprise in the artillery thread. Total convert on the vulnerability of armour.

I see now that no one could be hurt by the shell if no one was in the vehicle when it was hit!

@kino, I think DMS' question might be fairly reasonable here, even though I very much agree with your sentiment and frustration.

[Kinophile]

I'm just fed up with the constant negativity and potshot-ing at credibility the instant there's anything remotely non-pro-russian or which casts dispersion in any possible way on russian state organs (tv included). 

Its concerted, continuous, constant and consistent to a degree that suggests a externally coordinated attempt to swamp anything not pro Russian with distraction, dismissal, denial and diversion.*

Its pretty damn close to ruining this forum, to me. 

 

 

*I'm an alliteration aficionado

Edited February 24, 2017 by kinophile

[Haiduk]

10 hours ago, DMS said:

Can you give a link to the youtube video? What TV channel, what time and date? (No politic in this question, I think)

You can enter in search line of Youtube "обстрел школа Зайцево" and watch huge of TV news video - DNR channels, ANNA-NEWS, NEWS-FRONT, Russian TV channels еtс

Here Lifenews - "fighters of Right Sector are lunching ATGMs not in military vehicles, but in the school and in nearby houses of grandma's and granpa's". Though Right Sector didn't fight in this area and Russian journalist "forgot" to say, that school is a fortified position and neighbour houses already long time ago abandoned and turned also in fortified positions. But in brains of Russians is laying an accent "evil Right Sector specailly shoot on children and oldsters"

  

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by Haiduk

[DMS]

5 minutes ago, Haiduk said:

You can enter in search line of Youtube "обстрел школа Зайцево" and watch huge of TV news video - DNR channels, ANNA-NEWS, NEWS-FRONT, Russian TV channels еtс

Here Lifenews - "fighters of Right Sector are lunching ATGMs not in military vehicles, but in the school and in nearby houses of grandma's and granpa's". Though Right Sector didn't fight in this area and Russian journalist "forgot" to say, that school is a fortified position and neighbour houses already long time ago abandoned and turned also in fortified positions. But in brains of Russians is laying an accent "evil Right Sector specailly shoot on children and oldsters"

 

"Life news" is internet channel, not Russian TV. He says that school was hit by AT-4 ATGM and how expensive it is. How much money Ukrainians spend shooting it by dozens everyday. He didn't say a single word about poor children shelled by Ukrainians.

Pretty naive attempt to copy Israel-Palestinian discourse about terrorists, hiding behind civilians, army shooting back and hypocrite media showing video about victims.

[A Canadian Cat]

3 hours ago, kinophile said:

Its concerted, continuous, constant and consistent to a degree that suggests a externally coordinated attempt to swamp anything not pro Russian with distraction, dismissal, denial and diversion.

Hence the term "Putin Bots" was coined to cover just this type of behaviour.

[Haiduk]

1 hour ago, DMS said:

"Life news" is internet channel, not Russian TV.

Russian Wiki says this media have auditory in 75 millions and was most cited channel in 2014. The channel has both internet and air transmitting (occupied Crimea, Moscow, S.Peterburg). As well as Russia Today it became like a standard of Russian propaganda and pure lie. I believe 1st channel, Russia 24 and other also filmed reportages about this scholl and use video of Life, ANNA-News and others. Any Russian channel will say you that our troops in Donbas only that do, that "murder women, oldsters and children and day and night grounding cities and villages with heavy artillery".    

Edited February 24, 2017 by Haiduk

[HerrTom]

For what it's worth, no self respecting Russian watches Russia Today. Well, at least the ones I know, who all emigrated. Many still have dreams of returning, though they are pretty entrenched in their lives here by this point.