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Beginner Help with A December Morning (Demo)


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Hello All:

I have done scouting in the first few minutes and have spotted a Tiger (facing the wrong way) and a PSW. On board I have infantry and 4 tubes of 60mm and 4 tubes of 81mm Mortars. I should be getting 3 Shermans and 1 x 105 Sherman in a minute or so. So naturally I am wondering how to proceed.

Do you fire some mortars at the PSW now? I assume you wait for your tanks?

On the PSW it says range 3000m - no such note on the Tiger. Is this the distance to the PSW and is there a way in game for the player  to estimate distances? I assume a leader with binos estimated that distance to the PSW? Is weapon range included in the Encyclopedia?

Appreciate any help.

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When I played - I drove the PSW away with mortar fire, and set-up a mortar strike on the Kitty to get it to button up just prior to Shermans arriving and getting into position.  A long range flank shot or three from an unbuttoned 76(?) Sherman (to aid spotting) will kill it swiftly.

After that the fun begins! :-)

Edited by Wicky
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^^^

What Wicky said. I used a lot of split teams to get a distributed set of observation points along the start-up woods. After I spotted the Tiger, I may have used SMOKE to blind it while my 76mm's moved into position. That positioning is important. Keyholes help save lives.  Pixel-lives, that is.

I then used a two-prong infantry attack. As one prong got dented, the other would advance. I found a lot of Germans that way. I would just link up all my most recent crop of red-crosses, and that would point me to the next nest. :(

3,000m range? I don't know to what you're referring. (None of the in-game vehicle guns have a range limit published, that I know of. The Tiger II main gun could fire well past 4km. Of course, it's accuracy would suck and in-game you'd be hard pressed to find that LOS or to spot an enemy. If using AP shot, you'd not have much effect, even if it hit.) You may well be seeing some sort of unit's range limit. I'm just a bit confused by your description.

To estimate range, create a waypoint (you can delete it as soon as you're done with this) next to your unit. "Activate" that waypoint and choose a combat command like "Target". Draw the target line to your desired spot. Your LOS may be blocked, but the range will be shown. (The range is from that waypoint which is active to the end of the LOS tool.)

 

The fun thing about this battle is finding out how important good tactics are. The other fun thing is trying to find out which tactics are good and which are not. ;)

The 76mm Sherman can be considered as the same class as a good PzIV. (I'd actually rate the 76mm Sherman a bit higher than that...) It is less than a Panther. The Tiger II's front is pretty much immune to the 76mm at most combat ranges. (No references at hand. Others will chime in, no doubt, with the exact ranges.) However, the side and rear of the Tiger II is vulnerable to the 76mm...and the 105mm HEAT.

 

I suggest playing this in WeGo. Savegame early and often. Play it all the way through the first time. Then, go back to the first save prior to your big mistake and try an alternative plan.

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Thanks very much. That 3,000m range thing: the 3000 m shows in the icon in the unit info panel - the little pic there makes it look like a PSW 234/1 with an antenna. But the vehicle on the map does not have an antenna that I can see. The 3000m is written about "Heavy armored car".

It must be very difficult to set up those keyhole spots - well for me it will be. Isn't there something going on where you don't for sure if you have LOS from a waypoint? Something about how the target line is drawn. I want to say thanks for the tips.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, GerryCMBB said:

It must be very difficult to set up those keyhole spots - well for me it will be.

Yes, it can be. The more you play the better you get at finding them. Start by exploring with the LOS tool (aka target) and watching what is blocking your line of sight. After a while you start to notice things that you know will block it and you will spend less time exploring around with the target tool and more time finding good positions.

29 minutes ago, GerryCMBB said:

Isn't there something going on where you don't for sure if you have LOS from a waypoint? Something about how the target line is drawn. I want to say thanks for the tips.

The LOS test is based on the current posture of the selected unit and against an enemy at a standard height. So infantry laying prone have issues testing LOS from way points behind walls. For vehicles sometimes locations that the tool says have no LOS do if a tall enemy vehicle are sitting there. Watch for the words "reverse slope no aim point" that is telling you that your unit cannot target the ground at that location but if something taller was there your unit could see it. And that enemy unit could see yours.

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Thanks. That helps me.

But I still find maps and LOS not so intuitive. So for example in the scenario it is a squad near the road that sees the Tiger. But I have a few section leaders on the side of the map where they are higher than the road and they cannot see any of the sighted items I think. In terms of planning you would move a unit there usually as you think they would have LOS.

1. If you click on the sighted unit does it show which of your units see it? (I think I can find this out by clicking on each of my units and then the target unit shows clearly, not a "?", for that unit but it is a lot of clicking.

2. I called in some Mortar even thought is is on the board. I believe it is the leader that needs LOS then not the Mortar, right?

3. Is there some indication of which leader you used to call in the Mortars? I clicked on each of them trying to find him again and I cannot see anything. On calling it in it said eta of three minutes but I am trying to get an update.

4. Using the Hunt command the troops go to ground immediately on seeing the Tiger even though there was no fire. The only way to have them move forward in that situation is a Quick or some other move command? IOW the Hunt command seems very conservative. 

Thanks again.

 

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1 hour ago, GerryCMBB said:

<Snip> 

4. Using the Hunt command the troops go to ground immediately on seeing the Tiger even though there was no fire. The only way to have them move forward in that situation is a Quick or some other move command? IOW the Hunt command seems very conservative. 

You can put a 360o Target Arc of about 100 meters (or whatever distance is appropriate) on the troops using Hunt.  Then they will (generally) only react to danger that is within the Target Arc.  Target Arc + Shift = 360o

 

1 hour ago, GerryCMBB said:

<Snip> 

1. If you click on the sighted unit does it show which of your units see it? (I think I can find this out by clicking on each of my units and then the target unit shows clearly, not a "?", for that unit but it is a lot of clicking.  <Snip> 

Yes.  Just click on the OpFor unit that is an identified contact (not a Tentative ? contact).  The friendly units that can see it will illuminate.  You can also click on every friendly unit to accomplish the same thing but as you found out that is a lot of clicking.     

 

1 hour ago, GerryCMBB said:

<Snip> 

2. I called in some Mortar even thought is is on the board. I believe it is the leader that needs LOS then not the Mortar, right?

3. Is there some indication of which leader you used to call in the Mortars? I clicked on each of them trying to find him again and I cannot see anything. On calling it in it said eta of three minutes but I am trying to get an update.

<Snip> 

If you are firing the mortar indirect the spotter (HQ, F/O and some XOs) needs line of sight. 

If you click on any HQ unit and then open the fire support panel all the artillery/mortar assets will be displayed.  Click on the one you want and there will be an option "Go to Spotter"  Click on that option and it will take you to the spotter. 

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One of the better aspects of the game difficulty levels is it shows you who sees what. I play "Iron", exclusively. Sure, at first I thought it'd be like the typical FPS "insane" or "mayhem" level where there more and worse of the bad guys. Not in this game. Read the manual about the difficulty levels. Iron lets you see what your units REALLY see. That affects how they perform on the battlefield. FWIW.

Clicking on the enemy will highlight which friendly units see it. Clicking on a friendly will highlight which units it can see. That's very helpful.

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I agree that "Iron" is the best way to play the game IF you want to replicate what the men on the ground experienced, and of course, play with the trees full on. With regard to this particular battle. Once a HQ unit had clear LOS on the big cat I gave my tanks "Target" arcs in it's direction and they did the rest. 

Edited by Warts 'n' all
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  • 4 years later...

I replayed this one yesterday. What a fantastic scenario! Made so many mistakes, almost quit a few times as I lost yet another tank. The map is beautiful, the surprise is a great idea, the defence is really well placed and challenging, the AI moves were surprising and effective, as they were good quality troops that dealt it out rather than ran away. Lots of great moments. A super well placed scout team took apart the new platoon, with some help from an armoured car. 10 KIA. I ended up going completely OTT with a mortar strike and mass charge to deal with the last team member. Was down to the 105 at the end with no main gun ammo left. The sickening sound of a panzerfaust being launched and the inevitable knock out. Congratulations to the scenario designer! Now just need to make a film of it....

 

Commiserations to the families of all the GIs that fell. The commander was sacked the same evening, despite the German surrender. 

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Somebody needs to test the RL Tactic. Shoot HE at the King Tiger followed by White Phosphor. The White Phosphor will combust on the Tiger and set it alight. In the game however *spoiler* have the Jumbos attack followed by the 76 mm Sherman. The Sherman penetrated the King Tiger's side armor, and the crew abandoned the tank. Kept firing till it was knocked out. We don't have choice what ammo we can use. I would love to try the White Phosphor and HE procedure which came supposedly from Patton himself. 

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  • 2 months later...
On 3/19/2021 at 5:46 PM, BornGinger said:

Why not try and see what happens? It's only a game so you can always save first and redo it if it goes wrong.

I suspect that GerryCMBB has finished this scenario in the four and a half years since the original post.

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On 12/17/2016 at 6:21 AM, GerryCMBB said:

Hello All:

I have done scouting in the first few minutes and have spotted a Tiger (facing the wrong way) and a PSW. On board I have infantry and 4 tubes of 60mm and 4 tubes of 81mm Mortars. I should be getting 3 Shermans and 1 x 105 Sherman in a minute or so. So naturally I am wondering how to proceed.

Do you fire some mortars at the PSW now? I assume you wait for your tanks?

On the PSW it says range 3000m - no such note on the Tiger. Is this the distance to the PSW and is there a way in game for the player  to estimate distances? I assume a leader with binos estimated that distance to the PSW? Is weapon range included in the Encyclopedia?

Appreciate any help.

Well, Gerry, I see you have finally upgraded to CMx2...Welcome aboard :-)

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