Armchair General praises Final Blitzkrieg

[A Canadian Cat]

I have to admin I am slightly mystified. The example @rooibos gave of friends who will not buy the game or play the game because there is not one click install one click get an opponent feature are, in my opinion, just not going to ever be regular players. My point is a simple one: it is not hard right now to purchase and install and find opponents. True it takes more effort than click, click done. But it is frankly not that hard at all. I can go to the Blitz or TFGM and get a dozen opponents by the end of the day. I just do not accept that that is the root problem holding the game back.

Having said that yes visibility is a really big issue. I only discovered this series 10 years after CM 1x started. I would have played these games for a decade longer if I had known they existed. But the question then is would I have found them faster if they were on Steam - nope.

If we are serious about wanting the game to get more exposure and more players etc then the right way to go would be to get the game reviewed, mentioned in more media sources. If BFC don't want to promote the game more than they already do some of us could. But coming here and doing things backwards (trying the tired old argument that release on steam = panacea of success) is not really going to work.

And since this is rapidly turning into a steam argument instead of a promotion argument here is Steve's summary of his thoughts on steam the last time he closed a thread because people could not behave themselves:

 

[Jock Tamson]

No it is not hard to install, but it does not encourage casual purchase.  S***m on the other hand enables casual product discovery and purchase - search by genre.

[AstroCat]

I think Matrix/Slitherine is doing ok, no? Paradox...,doing well... the Graviteam people... seem alright... plus "others". I don't buy into the only Battlefront can exist and make niche games legend, not buying it sorry. This is cynical but I have often felt they have been successful in spite of themselves. They made a cool game in an open space and because there is no competition they coast along... it's a space ripe for some new blood or at least some fresh ideas. But whatever, right? Battlefront can do no wrong...it's all prefect just the way it has been and always will be, right? It's totally perfect.. and new people playing or more sales or better games are totally outrageous to ask about, one must be insane to question at all, right? Right? Do I get it now?

[John Kettler]

IanL,

Michael Emrys is correct. to my knowledge, the only DF rocket system was that of the  2 or 4 x 60-pound aerial rockets mounted on small numbers of the British tanks and ACs. These were the same weapons as mounted on the Tiffies, and were known as Tulips. 

Regards,

John Kettler

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Tulips were a rare beast too.....They were only used by the Coldstream Guards:

 

Allegedly the idea came from the Canadian Manitoba Dragoons who added aircraft rocket rails to their Staghound ACs:

 

PS - If you are a Sherman fan and haven't seen them before (unlikely), the first two pictures will be utterly fascinating.....If not, well they're Shermans aren't they. 

PPS - The Tulip was a very effective weapon, somewhere amongst my references I've got a contemporary account detailing an engagement where a company of Coldstream Tulips took out a fortified position in a wood, if I find it I'll post it.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead

[LukeFF]

16 hours ago, c3k said:

I gotta say that I think I understand where rooibos is coming from. I'd love for there to be an auto update function which downloads new maps, battles, and campaigns (all vetted and tested by BFC). The same for opponents.

...and one that will download updates to the game. The current system is terribly antiquated and, judging by the number of questions that come up here about how to update the game, is in need of a change. 

[A Canadian Cat]

1 hour ago, AstroCat said:

I think Matrix/Slitherine is doing ok, no? Paradox...,doing well... the Graviteam people... seem alright... plus "others". I don't buy into the only Battlefront can exist and make niche games legend, not buying it sorry. This is cynical but I have often felt they have been successful in spite of themselves. They made a cool game in an open space and because there is no competition they coast along... it's a space ripe for some new blood or at least some fresh ideas. But whatever, right? Battlefront can do no wrong...it's all prefect just the way it has been and always will be, right? It's totally perfect.. and new people playing or more sales or better games are totally outrageous to ask about, one must be insane to question at all, right? Right? Do I get it now?

I am sorry you are hard of understanding. No one disputes that other companies are successful using Steam. I am sure BFC would be too. Yadda yadda yadda. They have a working store and distribution system (I am well aware of the imperfections in both - I said working) and are maxed out creating new settings, improving the engine and creating content. They have an acceptable revenue stream. Why would they put that in jeopardy to do the work to be sell-able on steam? I fail to understand why this is hard for people to get - they are happy and making the kind of money they want controlling their own destiny. I am seriously having trouble understanding what the fuss is about. Steam support is a massive red herring.

Lets fuss some about how to get the word out and get the fact that this game exists in front of more people who are interested in war-gaming.

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, Erwin said:

There is a reason that of all the hardcore wargame developers BF is the ONLY company to survive.  Plenty of others tried to go the "expand our market" route.  Where are they now?  Out of bidness, that's where.

You don't go much outside these forums, do you? Besides the example of Arma already being given, there's Eagle Dynamics and 1C Game Studios on the military flight simulator side of things - and both software houses are doing quite fine with expanding their user base. 

[Erwin]

But, the examples given are not directly competing with CM2.  One may know about them and have tried most of the ones mentioned.   But, they are different types of games. 

Yes, am all for anything that makes updates and patching easier, and that makes playing the game easier/improved UI.  But, do we have to rehash the whole STEAM argument every few months by people who know nothing about game development??   Go start your own company, make it successful, and then you can claim that you "know what needs to be done."

It's just childish to keep claiming one knows better when one has no skin in the game (or RL experience).  The reason no one listens to you is that you have no credibility.

[AstroCat]

I have RL experience. Just say'en.

Edited March 1, 2017 by AstroCat

[Michael Emrys]

11 hours ago, AstroCat said:

The game as an enitiy has such amazing potential beyond what it is now but most here don't seem interested.

Okay. So, I am genuinely interested to hear what you think should be done to expand the game's potential and how you would go about it. Let's hear some positive ideas!

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

5 hours ago, AstroCat said:

They made a cool game in an open space and because there is no competition they coast along... it's a space ripe for some new blood or at least some fresh ideas. But whatever, right? Battlefront can do no wrong...it's all prefect just the way it has been and always will be, right? It's totally perfect.. and new people playing or more sales or better games are totally outrageous to ask about, one must be insane to question at all, right? Right? Do I get it now?

That is a totally strawman argument. The point is not that BFC has never made a mistake, they've made their share (cutting a deal with Paradox that compelled them to release SF before it was really ready was a big one), but they seem to be able to learn from them and to carry on with improved performance. And I don't think anyone is claiming that CM is perfect, not even BFC does that. But it continually grows and improves. As for increased sales and revenues, I don't hear anybody who is dead set against that. What people are disagreeing with are the proposed strategies for achieving that goal.

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

4 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Tulips were a rare beast too.....They were only used by the Coldstream Guards:

 

Here is a somewhat clearer pic of the arrangement.

Once again the Coldstream Guards. One thing I notice about them, and that is that unlike the Calliope, there does not seem to be any way to control elevation. Azimuth can be controlled by turret rotation, but elevation and therefore range would have to be a very crude "by guess and by gosh".

Michael

Edited March 1, 2017 by Michael Emrys

[Michael Emrys]

By comparison, it is easy to see in this photo how elevation is controlled with the Calliope.

Michael

[Sgt.Squarehead]

The Tulip has the rockets set to two different elevations (each side is different if you look at the picures carefully), they are effectively pre-ranged.....I forget the actual numbers off-hand but I can find them easily enough if it's of value? 

Caliope is a different beast really, more akin to the Katuysha than the Tulip.....There's also the T-40 'Whizz-Bang', but this one never really took off:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T40_Whizbang

WWII tanks are kinda my specialist subject BTW. 

This is my WWII 1/72 kit collection (as it looked a couple of years back, there's more now):

Many of the boxes have two or more kits in them.....I don't sell them, those are all for me. 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Erwin]

Holy Sh....!

How many reincarnations are you planning on to make em all?

[Warts 'n' all]

Given that the OP was making an honest comment on his views about Armchair General's reaction to the release of Final Blitzkrieg perhaps it might be better for all of us if this trying to tell Steve and the other boys in the band how to run BFC was knocked on the head. I for one come to this forum to gain insight on CM's WW2 titles from better players than myself. I don't visit the CMSF or CMBS forums and try to tell them to play WW2 instead. Likewise I'm not interested in what other company's do, or don't do to promote their own products. And I would never visit their websites and try to tell them what to do. 

In fact just the other day someone told me that Combat Mission was for boring old farts who are happy to buy a game with rubbish graphics and a useless UI, sadly it didn't end well.

 

 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Yeah.....Assuming I live long enough (unlikely TBH). 

I'm going to ditch most of the aircraft, restricting myself just to those with a close support role, (plus a few sexy ones that I just have to have) but the tanks are all to be built, by the platoon (typically) for use with Too Fat Lardies 'Chain Of Command', 'Troops, Weapons & Tactics' & 'I Ain't Been Shot Mum' wargame rules:

https://toofatlardies.co.uk/product-category/chain-of-command/

https://toofatlardies.co.uk/product-category/troops-weapons-tactics/

https://toofatlardies.co.uk/product-category/i-aint-been-shot-mum/

 

[Erwin]

I have an entire 1944 Brit armored division in microarmor - painted beautifully and mounted on magnetic bases for miniatures - but haven't looked at em since CM1 came out.  Your models must be huge by comparison, 1:72 scale?

Hmmm...  What's a microarmor division worth these days?

[Michael Emrys]

2 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

There's also the T-40 'Whizz-Bang', but this one never really took off:

Is that supposed to be a pun?

Michael

[Vergeltungswaffe]

6 hours ago, Erwin said:

I have an entire 1944 Brit armored division in microarmor - painted beautifully and mounted on magnetic bases for miniatures - but haven't looked at em since CM1 came out. 

Same.  I have hundred's of GHQ mini's and they haven't been out of their boxes since 2001.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

5 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

Is that supposed to be a pun?

Michael

Mebbe. 

I'd imagine your micro-armour is 1/285, so about a quarter the size of my stuff.....I used to have some micro-armour too, but I prefer the modern freeform skirmish systems to old style 'I Go-You Go' games.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead

[AstroCat]

Dream... CM with these graphics (and probably sound engine and performance)...https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/pc-gamer-article-with-early-screenshots.1002333/

Yeah the game isn't as "hardcore" as CM, but it's not CoH either, it's probably in the middle somewhere... looks fun and I'll probably give it a go when it comes out. (not as a CM replacement, just as another possibly fun game)

But yeah... CM, off the top of my head... super fast, from a top level, from a more strategic planning viewpoint:

1) Better website that doesn't look like it's from the late 90's
2) Better storefront, again not from the late 90's...
3) Steam and/or GoG... yep, deal with it, still think it's a great move for CM.
4) Matchmaking service supported by BF, Steam could help here, or in-game browser, or at least official web support.
5) Integrated mod support (Steam workshop would be great)
6) Completely redone and user friendly UI... yeah I can use it, but I've been with it forever... it's still gross for a new player
7) Graphics engine, wow... please modernize, invest...
8) Performance... related to #7, no one with a half decent system should have to play a game with graphics as simple and basic as CM and not be able to get smooth and fluid 60fps in this day and age.
9) Integrated launch system UI for all the different games, with unified mod system if not using Steam workshop
10) Battlefront Social Media Director... they need some serious PR help
11) In-game or website encyclopedia, War Thunder does this off of an in-game linked Wiki and it works good. Makes the game a lot more user friendly. Or keep it in-game, even better, maybe even with comparison stat features, images, etc...
12) Much simpler and streamlined in-game/launcher patching system. Another area Steam could handle very well.
13) Sound Engine... vastly upgraded and modernized.
14) Campaign mode that is more immersive. (vague but this is a whole thing unto itself)
15) Scenario/Campaign sharing functionality, Steam Workshop could work well here.

*16) In-game mechanics discussion, again this is a huge topic unto itself and one where super fast you can get into debating the details.

There are more, but a lot relate to the graphics and sound engines... so let's just stop here.

That should be enough for some of the more die hard fans (you have to accept the game as near perfect to be considered a fan or supporter I've learned) to come in and say why each one is the worst idea ever and how no one could possibly have anything constructive or helpful to say. I know what to expect now a days...I was so naive in the beginning thinking "reasonable" ideas would be met with "reasonable" discussion.


 

Edited March 2, 2017 by AstroCat

[A Canadian Cat]

2 hours ago, AstroCat said:

That should be enough for some of the more die hard fans (you have to accept the game as near perfect to be considered a fan or supporter I've learned) to come in and say why each one is the worst idea ever and how no one could possibly have anything constructive or helpful to say.

Well that is just not fair. Those all seem like good ideas. I have a few thoughts and concerns about how the details might look and what is more important. What I don't get is how BFC accomplishes them. That is the job for double or triple the size of the current company.

2 hours ago, AstroCat said:

I know what to expect now a days...I was so naive in the beginning thinking "reasonable" ideas would be met with "reasonable" discussion.

Now you are just trolling. Just because people disagree with your thoughts does not mean people aren't willing to discuss them. I'll skip taking the bait.

[c3k]

2 hours ago, AstroCat said:

Dream... CM with these graphics(and probably sound engine)...https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/pc-gamer-article-with-early-screenshots.1002333/

Yeah the game isn't as "hardcore" as CM, but it's not CoH either, it's probably in the middle somewhere... looks fun and I'll probably give it a go when it comes out.

But yeah... CM, off the top of my head... super fast:

1) Better website that doesn't look like it's from the late 90's
2) Better storefront, again not from the late 90's...
3) Steam and/or GoG... yep, deal with it, still think it's a great move for CM.
4) Matchmaking service supported by BF
5) Integrated mod support (Steam workshop would be great)
6) Completely redone and user friendly UI... yeah I can use it, but I've been with it forever... it's still gross for a new player
7) Graphics engine, wow... please modernize, invest...
8) Performance... related to #7, no one with a half decent system should have to play a game with graphics as simple and basic as CM and not be able to get 60fps in this day and age.
9) Integrated launch system UI for all the different games, with unified mod system
10) Battlefront Social Media Director... they need some serious PR help
11) In-game or website encyclopedia, War Thunder does this off of an in-game linked Wiki and it works good. Makes the game a lot more user friendly. Or keep it in-game, even better, maybe even with comparison stat features, images, etc...
12) Much simpler and streamlined in-game/launcher patching system. Another area Steam could handle very well.
13) Sound Engine... vastly upgraded and modernized.
14) Campaign mode that is more immersive. (vague but this is a whole thing unto itself)

There are more, but a lot relate to the graphics and sound engines... so let's just stop here.

That should be enough for some of the more die hard fans (you have to accept the game as near perfect to be considered a fan or supporter I've learned) to come in and say why each one is the worst idea ever and how no one could possible have anything constructive or helpful to say. I know what to expect now a days...


 

Each of these ideas certainly seem like they'd be an improvement. The only issue is HOW will BFC implement these (assuming they comport with BFCs business model), without losing something else which they value more highly?