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DAR: Kinophile (RUS) v. The Forward Observer (US) - Batt. PBEM


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So TheForwardOberver has suggested/agreed to a Huge PBEM.

  1. MAP: "Oceans of Tears" - his modified River of Tears, featuring many more high rise buildings (essentially FO porn) and a ladder arrangement of OBJs. It also has very deep setup zones, something I really like.

  2. SIZE: Huge (i.e 1-2 Battalion level)

  3. POINTS: about 17-20,000 each

  4. TEAMS: RED- Attacker, US - defender



I've learned the bloody and hard way, as every RUS player quickly does, that rushing in against US is a recipe for slaughter. I also have deliberately hamstrung myself bytaking only a Mech infantry force against his Mixed Armor/MI.

I fully expect to lose.

However, there is a method to my madness:

  1. Lately I've been testing MI tactics and OOBs constantly, so pitting myself against a tank heavy, human lead US force is a strong test.
  2. Patch 1.04 claims to have adjusted RUS vehicle weapons selection (atgm/shell) so here's a good opportunity to test it.
  3. I strongly believe TFO is a stinky winky poo pants and his HATO armoured pumpkins are doomed to trip over their own bedraggled tracks.
  4. F#ckit, why not. Most games, people always go for the uber max elite god-tank force they can. Players rarely deliberately disadvantage themselves. I'm Irish so whatever thing it is that rational, sensible, not-drunk people would not do, well, we will firmly do the exact opposite. I can but obey my DNA, people!
  5. No AIR. That's right, no US or RUS fixed wing/rotary air. UAVs are allowed. This alone will give me a decent chance. Or a breather. Or a fool's hope. I dunno, something.
  6. Technically its an Urban map, which is pretty much the only environment that RUS has a hope of winning v US. Open country is just a giant cemetery for RUS.

So, 2 hours. Russian MI v US armored.


He's got some smack talk going already  ("My last PBEM wanted to do a DAR too.  Till he lost 25 vehicles in 4 minutes...")but hey, pop a few ATGMs into his Abrams ass and we'll see who's giggling then. Probably still him. The sociopath. 

Basic analysis:

High ground and primary roads, US avenues of attack:


Same, for RED:


RED sightlines


US sightlines:


Normally, Ill fight for terrain. Ill try to get high ground, sight lines, outflank the enemys core,. etc etc. All that fancy crap.

This time, i'm going simple - a LOT of eyes watching, a LOT of tubes waiting and a LOT of missiles a-hidin'.

Instead of charging forward I'm going to advance carefully, steadily. I'll stay in the main urban area west of the river and leave the risen ground on the East to him to play robin hood in. 

My objective is not ground, but kills - when I see something I kill it, I kill the ground around it for 100M and I follow up on any structures nearby. THEN I move forward. If something is immobilised I dont move until its goddamn DEAD. 

This could/will leave me open to outflanking but I;m not going for a standard line /line/reserve formation - more interlocking, fluid hedgehogs of FOs, ATGM teams, I don't care if he outflanks, hes welcome to - because it just means more eyes on him. Did I mention a lot of Arty? oh yes. LOTS. Also, my MI OOB will be highly customised.

This is actually a restart of our first few turns. I picked my force originally, then realized latyer that I had gone for a very standard, generic approach, which surprise surprise, ahd failed me repeatedly in the past. time to think differently.

Thence, this DAR.




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Behold, ye peasants.


1 BTR Battallion.

Decided to NOT go with BMPs but for BTRs instead for the infantry ATGM count. Its an urban fight.

Stripped out 3rd Company, and also 1 platoon each from 1st & 2nd Coys.

Reinforced each non-weapons platoon with 4 ATGM AT-13 teams (using the Saxhorn for its fast setup and Coy reloads). Gives me 8 x ATGM teams per Coy, so 22 teams for the Battalion. At about 4 missiles per team, plus refills, 100 missiles.

Kept the Recon for extra eyes, Engies to enable the recons (and theyre pretty), added 3xFO/1xAC, a Khriz platoon, a Tunguska Coy.

Oh and 7 platoons of 152mm tubes.

Also, not shown, but 4 Zalas.

STRATEGY: Stay on the right side of the river (to me). Use the urban terrain to hide, hit, flee, advance. Leave the left bank open for him to runaround in, Ive got plenty of places to see and hit him from the Right bank.

Assume he'll keep a heavy reserve (He's an FO, getting him to move is like trying to tip over a sleeping hog).

TACTICS: Kill the armor.

Use recon platoon and some deep Khriz/atgms to keep an eye on the left bank. Mine the bejaysus out of it. Mine the crossings.  

Arty every tall building in site (TRP on most) right off the top. I'll have maybe 3-5 minutes before metal things start exploding, so that arty barrage has gotta happen pronto.

Advance slowly into hiding. Break into teams, interlocking ATGM fields - ATGM teams work in twos. 

Use the Zalas to ID movements (keep one in reserve). Use the Tungs to harrass his UAV surveillance.

Drop 2 pltns+ of arty on each Bradley spotting - go for full area effect. A Bradley that has stopped has most like exited its infantry, who can only move so far in so much time. Use the Bradley as centre point and flatten everything 50M around it. Hit him hard & early, reduce his eyeball count.

I will very specifically try to follow my Perpendicular Rule, from ATGM teams up.


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Getting him to finish a sentence without the words Like, Um, Ahmmm, Ehh or various animalistic grunts is a feat in itself. Also not sure if his greasy sausage fingers can work his Fisher  Price keyboard fast enough.

Maybe his mommy will write a few notes for him,  after he's finished having a good cry. 

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49 minutes ago, kinophile said:

What were your main takeaways? 

Well, the first time was defending, so it would have been to keep my forces well back and use a ton of mines in the city. My opponent was very slow and methodical and, I was ground down by indirect fire. Also Abrams' with APS are incredibly difficult to kill, but that may go without saying. I was expecting a flanking maneuver early on, but my opponent pushed up the middle and then unleashed an armoured thrust on my right flank once my forces had been severely degraded. 

The second time was an absolute disaster on my part. I attacked as the Russians against the Ukrainians in a blundering forward assault supported by artillery and lots of direct fire. It was an bloodbath with nearly nothing to show for it. I learned an important lesson about frontal attacks in CMBS though.

It's one of the best QB maps in the game and it does offer a lot of opportunities for staying out of sight, which is vital as the Russians especially with a BTR based force. Khrizantemas can be quite useful on the flanks in this map.

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Thank you very much for during this DAR. I'm sure it will be very informative. I'm surprised by your selection the AV mines and foxholes. For some reason, I was under the impression that those had to be placed during the initial setup since they're primarily defensive. Also, I can't remember my two or three-man team ever being able to dig even a very basic, relatively effective, hole in loose or sandy soil in less than 30 minutes. A one-man scrape hole yes, but certainly not a sandbagged one.  Are we able to place fortifications during actual play? How long does it take to place a mine or dig a foxhole?

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They both have deep set up zones, I'm guessing the attacker can only place fortifications within the setup zone?  I guess they are doing a Russian attack that is launched after the Russians have been occupying their side of the city for a while and had time to dig and mine the night before or whatever.

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I'll check with His Royal Fartness if he's willing to relax his toddler-like death grip on it. 

Re mines,  yes only during setup. But as noted above we have very deep setup zones. 

This allows me to try my plan of 'refusing' my left flank and staying on the right bank, using extensive AV mines  and ATGM snipers to block the river crossings and hopefully snarl some armoured traffic in the left bank streets. 

I have 4 Tunguska,  all on the right bank to kill his drones,  while Arty flattens every tall building and higher ground -  basically,  kill his eyes. 

Interestingly,  @Chudacabra,   that central thrust and Armoured flanking is something I've also used successfully on this map.It does seem to be the optimal plan. 

Thence,  why I'm letting his flank do its business, slowing him down with mines/ATGMs while I attrite his main force. 

Or that's the plan at least. Might be a bad plan.  Might get all my men killed and my name dragged in infamy through the annals of CMBS -  but it's still a PLAN. 

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3 hours ago, cool breeze said:

They both have deep set up zones, I'm guessing the attacker can only place fortifications within the setup zone?  I guess they are doing a Russian attack that is launched after the Russians have been occupying their side of the city for a while and had time to dig and mine the night before or whatever.

Ah, I see. These old eyes missed the setup zones. They faded into the map work.

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1 hour ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

A typically Russian battle plan: flatten the city with artillery. I like it. The downside is you don't have enough infantry, IMO. 

This is where I would definitely disagree. I've come to the bloodied, frustrated conclusion that RUS numbers are irrelevant and dangerously comforting against US optics and response loop. 

I'm going towards a more US style high tech, long range, heavy support method. I can't match their arty's precision (I'm sorry, RUS precision rounds are nice, but the response time is so damn slow that, unless the human opp literally forgets about their Bradley, they miss their target by minures), so I'm going for quantity. 


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This will be fun!!!

I think you need about a battalion of tanks and one more of BMP-3s. And more artillery. :)

You just know that your oppo, with his forum name, will be jonesing to show how uber the observers are. Find them and kill them.

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Russian precision rounds are good on the offense but useless in defense. US ones too.. it s not 1-2 minutes  less response time (warrior level and up) that will make a difference against a moving advancing opponent.  GPS rounds are nice but can get jammed . Anyway the Russians are also introducing Glonass-guided rounds for their arty.

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Such talk might be effective to get him to write his own DAR - just to prove you wrong. But I suspect he is not reading this thread so he will not see it. 

Perhaps you could send him a PM along the lines of "People reading my DAR asked if you were going to do one as well, here is what I said:" :)

On 2016-10-25 at 6:01 AM, kinophile said:


Getting him to finish a sentence without the words Like, Um, Ahmmm, Ehh or various animalistic grunts is a feat in itself. Also not sure if his greasy sausage fingers can work his Fisher  Price keyboard fast enough.

Maybe his mommy will write a few notes for him,  after he's finished having a good cry. 


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This is some next level smack talk.  Gave me quite the chuckle.

I'll be interested in how those ATGMs handle the tanks.  My experience is they always get turned into a fine pink mist by Abrams before they cause much damage.  Perhaps I could learn a few things.  I request (no, demand!) video of those exciting artillery barrages.

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I expect heavy losses. As I mentioned, I expect to lose. 

I'm essentially using the Vietnam defense - a defeat is fine, so long as I inflict heavy losses. 

I'm also thinking in a bigger picture -  Mech Inf are not meant to go toe-to-toe with an MBT battle group. I'm assuming that there is a T90 battalion nearby,  engaged in attavk or otherwise,  and that U am essentially it's flanks.

We're attacking prepared American armoured positions,  (never a good thing) but I'm not aiming to defeat him -  just kill as many as I can before I'm forced to withdraw,  or to at least stop them attacking. 

I think the military term is Pinning in Place,  or maybe  a Spoiling Attack?  

If I lose but stay in being -  win. 

If I lose but cease to exist as a viable force -  defeat

While I need to husband my forces,  really I just need to keep 2-3 platoons and some FO/ACs effective and alive to count as viable. 

This consigns 50%+ of my force to death. Tbh, thats inevitable, as MI v US armorr - We shouldn't even be here. 

Going in with this knowledge (defeat is certain) is informing my setup,  force OOB and my plan. 

My advantages:

Lots of Artillery. 

Lots of ATGMs. 

Urban terrain to hide in. 



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