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akd,

I've seen an interview with a guy named Orr, who was at the intercept facility Station HYPO. He flatly said, on camera, the Japanese fleet was NOT radio silent even before it left Hittokappu Bay. There was ongoing communication from the Striking Force to IJN and vice versa. He said we tracked the Striking Force and its tankers by their transmissions as they advanced toward Hawaii. This account flatly contradicts the official line.

The McCollum Memo, which was specifically designed to force Japan to war,  was substantially implemented. The US Pacific fleet, against the protests of its CO, was moved from secure harbor in California to Hawaii, thus exposing it to devastating attack. The US had established as far back as 1929 in full-on Fleet wargames that attacking Pearl Harbor with aircraft carriers was feasible. And where did the carriers position themselves? Right where the Striking Force later did! The US did forward base subs. It did repeatedly deliberately troll cruisers through Japanese territorial waters around their islands--an act of war on each occasion. It did execute the recommended embargoes against Japan--steel and oil, the latter carried out in cooperation with the Dutch and, I believe, the British. Royal Ingersoll, what we'd call the DCNO today, said the Japanese naval code 5-Num was recovered in 1940. The US did help Chiang Kai Shek. Ever heard of the "mercenary" proxy air force it provided called the Flying Tigers? It was covertly recruited and had pilots in China six months before Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt himself signed off on it.

Rather than uncritically believing the reviews, how about reading the book instead? Stinnett has a whole chapter devoted not only to systematic destruction of records revealing the Big Lie about Pearl Harbor but also the withholding by the Navy, at the time his book has published, of still classified radio intercepts of the Japanese Navy from before Pearl Harbor! The academic journal INQUIRIES did a piece on the McCollum Memo, what Roosevelt knew and when. Interestingly, it was October 7, 1940 when the McCollum Memo was delivered, making this a kind of perverse anniversary. The short video below lays out the key points of the Memo and makes it quite clear that his recommendations were designed to back Japan into a position from which it would have to fight. Ironically, after sending Japan to war, but before she actually attacked, it was the destroyer Ward which fired the first shot, sinking a Japanese midget sub outside of Pearl Harbor.

I have zero interest in what people have been told or want to believe. The facts speak for themselves.

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited by John Kettler
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"Japanese naval code 5-Num was recovered in 1940"

JN-25 is the name given by codebreakers to the chief, and most secure, command and control communications scheme used by the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) during World War II (it was the 25th Japanese Navy system identified). Introduced in 1939 to replace Blue, it was an enciphered code, producing five-numeral groups for transmission. New code books and/or new superenciphering books were introduced from time to time, each new version requiring a more or less fresh cryptanalytic attack. In particular, JN-25 was significantly changed on 1 December 1940, and again on 4 December 1941, just before the attack on Pearl Harbor. It was the 1941 edition (JN-25b) that was sufficiently broken by late May 1942 to provide the critical forewarning of the Japanese attack on Midway.

Are you thinking of JN-39?  This was a naval code used by merchant ships (commonly known as the "maru code"), broken in May 1940. 28 May 1941, when the whale factory Nisshin Maru II visited San Francisco, U.S. Customs Service Agent George Muller and Commander R. P. McCullough of the U.S. Navy's 12th Naval District (responsible for the area) boarded her and seized her codebooks, without informing Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI). Copies were made, in a clumsy way, and the originals returned. The Japanese quickly realized JN-39 was compromised, and replaced it with JN-40.

 

Edited by Wicky
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"Robert Stinnett, however, offered a revisionist account of USN cryptanalysis in Day
of Deceit
, a book published in 1999 after seventeen years of archival research.

....

Stinnett, who conducted extensive research in several branches of the National Archives,
found no reliable evidence "that establishes how much of the 5-Num text could be
deciphered, translated, and read by naval cryptographers."35 Stinnett largely relied
upon the same cryptologic sources as previous authors, but decided that Japanese traffic
was largely readable prior to the Pearl Harbor attack."

Decoding Pearl Harbor: USN Cryptanalysis and the Challenge of JN-25B in 1941

http://www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_mariner/vol12/nm_12_1_17to37.pdf

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And John. I can believeably lie and say flatly on camera that Im ruler of the Earth and all its denizens and dominions. I was named such in an IJN msg from an alternate timeline.

All of you bowdown.

No seriously someone saying on camera is the same as some @$$hole on the train saying the same thing. Whats the credibility? Wheres the Nazi nuclear VBIED at Kursk and flying saucers with underslung panther turrets? Or is this definitive knowledgw the same as all your other definitive knowledge - " you have many highly placed sensitive  contacts and proof you just cant show us. But nevertheless WE MUST believe you and ignore the stndards we impose on everyone else of citations etc?"

Please.

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I won't even delve into the deeper parts of the woo, but:

1. The USS Ward basically did what any sentry would have done.  An unidentified thing with clearly hostile intent was engaged and destroyed (as there's not exactly a fleet of commercial submarines in 1941).

2. The US embargo was in reaction to Japanese bad acts.  It might have been unpleasant for the Japanese, but ascribing it as a means to pressure Japan into war is frankly silly

3. The sending US ships through Japanese claimed waters 100% is a thing we've always done to everyone who's claimed some sort of magic exclusion zone that goes well into international waters.  We're likely doing it somewhere right now as I type.

4. The Japanese carriers likely positioned themselves in the same spot as the wargames less so because conspiracy, but more so because it was an good spot in terms of geography to launch and recover an airstrike and then beat a hasty retreat.

5. By virtually all accounts Japanese codes were not broken to the degree you imply.  The whole water desalination plant trick at midway existed not because we were reading every letter, but because of the small percentage we got, it certainly implied something and we needed a lot more.  If we were reading Japanese codes to the degree to predict Pearl Harbor, it makes many of the other surprises Japan did accomplish in the 1941-1943 timeframe frankly inexcusable incompetence.   

Basically if you cherry pick enough of anything, you'll paint the picture you're looking for.  If you step back and remove those points of data from your narrative, I think you'll find they're a lot weaker than stated.  

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Idk. Hitler was certanly prescribed a ton of crazy drugs. Over 100 by Morrel including speed and cocai e eyedrops.

However the Nazi use of pervitin wasnt especially pervasive it was just easy to buy on the street like rven heroin and coke were in the US until about 1905. Its not like the history channel makes out where the entire wehrmacht was on crystal meth. They werent doing meth as its known in america now nor smkng anything simply eating pills and only then only really uboat crews, pilots, or men who.d been running on high intensity ops for days witb the rando few percent any populace has of addicts.

The nazis also developed methadone and named it adolphine but there was no conspiracy in it. Just bored german scientests given free reign to discover anything they thought would win a war or help a regime.

The allies used benzedrine just as frequently for crews needing it or troops as a speed and its still used if im not mistaken. If not something else is and readilt available to troops. Ww2 was also one of the last wars our troops returned home in boats in. This is where the phrase " cold turkey " comes from. Many US troops got addicted to morphine in the ETO and when they had to take the boat home and their combat endless supply of morphine syrettes was gone they went into  withdrawals  the constant goose flesh on them and pallor reminded people of frozen turkey skin.

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28 minutes ago, Sublime said:

This is where the phrase " cold turkey " comes from.

Do you happen to have a source for this? Not trying to put you on the spot - I did a quick search and couldn't find an authoritative source for when the phrase became popular. (Merriam-Webster states first known use as 1921; I am not subscribed to the OED.)

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The expression "Cold Turkey" first appeared in the Daily Colonist in British Columbia in 1921: "Perhaps the most pitiful figures who have appeared before Dr. Carleton Simon ... are those who voluntarily surrender themselves. When they go before him that are given what is called the 'cold turkey' treatment."

But why turkey, and why cold? The most popular theory was repeated by the San Francisco Chronicle columnist Herb Caen in 1978: "It derives from the hideous combination of goosepimples [sic] and what William Burroughs calls 'the cold burn' that addicts suffer as they kick the habit." In Cop Speak: The Lingo of Law Enforcement and Crime, Tom Philbin recites a second theory, that "the term may derive from the cold, clammy feel of the skin during withdrawal, like a turkey that has been refrigerated."

The problem with both of these theories is that they ignore the uses of cold turkey before its application to drug addiction. In a cartoon that appeared in newspapers on November 12, 1920, ace slangman Thomas "TAD" Dorgan used cold turkey this way – "Now tell me on the square – can I get by with this for the wedding – don't string me – tell me cold turkey." The editors of the Historical Dictionary of American Slang have found

It may be that the original cold turkey was a combination of cold ("straightforward, matter-of-fact") and the earlier talk turkey, which dates back to the early 1800s and refers to speaking plainly. Regardless of its ultimate origins, the phrase manages to vividly capture the initial dread and discomfort that comes from immediately quitting something that's addictive, from drugs to dating

- Merriam-Webster

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Thank you; I'm actually trying to find out if the popularization of the expression was indeed in the wake of the war, which would itself be an indication of addiction among troops being a major issue. I'll later see if I can dig up a frequency corpus, or maybe someone who has access to the OED will help.

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I always heard it came from WW2. Even from ex addicts despite what Merriam Webster has to say, this coming from someone who shot heroin for years like a moron. If you love military history and shooting heroin you.ll end up meeting some vets with interesting stories.

I think the end of your quote has it right. The cartoon in 1920 wasnt using the term with drugs. Its not far fetched that was as merriam webster said a way of meaning " be for real, or seriously, etc"

However Ive heard several times the phrase originated end of ETO Europe and it makes sense : plenty of morphine self injectors. More than enough to keep someone on the lines high for free.

Last conflict except Korea where US troops took a boat back. In Vietnam as I understand it after a certain point you had to do a urine right before your DEROS but even before that or after you were a plane ride back to America. Long enough for you to get high in Vietnam and not be sick yet in Cali.

You.ll also note methadone clinics really rose in America in the 70s. Interesting because US heroin was like 4 to 9 pervent pure ( unless you were getting it in Harlem or Manhattan NYC )whilst it was 80 to 90 percent pure in Nam and still cheaper. This led to a loooot of bank and pharmacy robberies and desperation.

Also in Vietnam apparently according to a couple vets I know in person and books I read some GIs would claim heroin addiction to get outta the bush others were really tryn to seek help it seems. The "cure" was universal - short chopper ride back, CONEX container for 3 days with bare minimum of fluids to keep you alive locked in there, half a day hooked up to an IV, and another chopper ride back to the bush.

I do know heroin and other drug use was at its lowest ebb in recorded US history during WW2 because of the controls on the border etc etc ( source : The Politics of Heroin : CIA Complicity in the Global Drug Trade  recommend it if your interested and no its not conspiracy theorist bs its a respected work )

 

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16 hours ago, Machor said:

Do you happen to have a source for this? Not trying to put you on the spot - I did a quick search and couldn't find an authoritative source for when the phrase became popular. (Merriam-Webster states first known use as 1921; I am not subscribed to the OED.)

Source off top of my head? No but Ive read it and will begin trolling my book collection. However the figures on the almost disappearance of US dope use in the 40s and probably the cold turkey reference are in

Politics of Heroin : CIA Complicity in the Global Drig Trade.

Also knowing what we know now abt America then and wartime propaganda and the distinct lack of reports of Allied troops committing crimes in ETO ( it actually happened a lot. Nothing like the Axis and across the Allied board but sense there were waay more Americans than anyone ) - it wouldnt be surprised if the people getting sick on QE2 or whatever were quietly disciplined and the "shocking" problem not revealed to tge press. Plus it was nowhere near as endemic as Vietnam

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@Sublime

To claim your bragging rights, read on. :P

I did a search for 'cold turkey' in the Corpus of Historical American English (http://corpus.byu.edu/coha/ ). Now, I must warn from previous experience that since most corpora are compiled from written sources (unless if explicitly labeled as a corpus of the spoken language), they tend to do a poor job with lexicon that originates from slang. On the other hand, since our concern was with popularization in the first place, this should be good enough to get a general sense.

And yes, the first incidence of 'cold turkey' in the sense that we use it today is in 1951 in Time Magazine:

"On New York's Rikers Island, youngsters have to endure the horrors of a sudden " cold turkey " cure or get none at all. Once released, many go right back to drugs again."

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Nah man my expertise is nothing to brag about. Pzsaur or duchess have expertise in the military. Others were in Nam. Thats braggable. Being a heroin addict and having done prison time isnt braggable. Prison isnt like movies. Youre safer in jail than on the streets. If you lose that fight on the streets the cops may mever evem show up. And i met more cowards in jail than anywhere else.

But thanks for covering my homewrk i couldnt dig at work today.

But i appreciate it,  as much as it probably seems to the members of the board i dont make baseless claims really, i usually only speak on something and act authoritave if i lived it or am sure ive read about it before. If you have any other questions feel free to ask..

I also know quite a bit about the medellin cartel, etc. Just interest Im not colombian nor did I ever traffic coke lol.

 

 

Also ironically whilst in LA county or Rykers you dont have to go cold turkey anymore -u get the option of methadone. Kicking methadone ( from experience ) is like kickong heroin x50. Its worse and lasts literally about 12 times as long.dope withdrawals last 7 to 9 days. Methadone? You.ll stop puking after a month. You wont sleep more than snatches of 5 or 10 min a whack for abt 3 mnths.

Unfortunately if you opt to get on methadone in NYC and get sentenced to more than a year you.ll be kicking it. Though you dont get high off it -unless youre not an opiate addict- and though methadone is prescribed by a doctor you wont get it in NY state prison. And if your prescribed methadone anywhere else in America the official line and de facto truth is " that sucks "

So really the entire coutry besides LA County and Rikers is still going cold turkey upon arrest. And the jails are flooded with drugs... so many people never stop using or ive seen people go into jail pot smokers and leave with heroin habits.

 

Also print and the public usually takes a few years to catch up to counter culture slang, scores or crimes, etc. For example for years in the early 2000s junkies would steal enfamil and sell it to family owned convenience stores at 1/3 of store price ( generally the rate in boston for something stolen ) it took about 4 yrs for grocery stores and convenienxe stores to begin locking up their enfamil. And everyone was already stealing mach 3 razor blades. So the stores then went to the locked razor bladws or the thing thats so loud the chinese know ur pulling razor blades out. And of course by then people were stealing something else. Ironically its almost like punch counterpunch of new inventions in war.

So 1951 is perfect for returning Korean war vets from the beginning and of course the huge numbers returning from WW2 for that slang to move from military slang to the streets and into the counterculture vocabulary.

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Thx but i shoulda been doing the right thing all along. Nothings preordained and I had more chances than most. It was just very important i got selfish for someone else instead of me i.e. my son. I didnt even like kids before i had one lol.

 

Unfortunately a huge amount of my generation is on heroin its a huge problem especially here in boston ive never seen so many kids i knew for years and or grew up with drop like flies its awful.

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2 hours ago, Sublime said:

Unfortunately a huge amount of my generation is on heroin its a huge problem especially here in boston ive never seen so many kids i knew for years and or grew up with drop like flies its awful.

Since we seem to be on the subject of drug use, I have entertained a thought for a long and would invite your comment on it. The thought is this: I wonder if a lot of drug use, especially the use of dangerous and addictive drugs isn't because so many people have no hope of achieving any real happiness in any other way. This is not to explain all addiction certainly—human motivation spread over large populations is always more complicated than that. But I look at addiction among the underclass or the very young, and I see them existing in a state of profound hopelessness. All avenues of advancement or satisfaction appear closed to them whether that is true or not.

Michael

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19 hours ago, Sublime said:

 Being a heroin addict and having done prison time isnt braggable. Prison isnt like movies. Youre safer in jail than on the streets. If you lose that fight on the streets the cops may mever evem show up. And i met more cowards in jail than anywhere else.

Stupid little story I used to tell my dudes:

The Lunar Lander had 245 cubic feet of space.  Your dining options were tang or something that used to be food in the distant past.  You breathed in air full of bodily waste and funk, and pooped in a bag in front of another man.

But you did so on the moon, looking back at literally everyone who ever existed.

Sometimes it isn't so much about what you have accomplished, but instead what you've done in spite of obstacles or how far you've had to go to get there.  

So good on you for that much.

Sort of tangentially on feeling safe:

I actually felt pretty safe in Iraq.  Like there's a higher chance of something bad happening on purpose, but you're covered in armor, you've got a weapon to return fire with, and there's like 20-50 dudes with you, heavy weapons, attack helicopters on call if you get into more trouble, and if you get hurt there's a MEDEVAC bird practically with your name on it.  I never worked in an IED heavy place, and our opposing enemy mortar/rocket guys sucked though so there was never quite the "DANGER EVERYWHERE" feeling some people got into.

Perhaps it's just a matter of being somewhere dangerous where controls to the danger are built in vs somewhere not inherently dangerous, but also not especially designed to manage danger.  

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Emrys. My situations different. Yes a lot of people I ran with especially from the projects in Southie and Charlestown had been raised under the expectation of the old fashioned Irish triad of the American dream - become a criminal, a cop, or a priest. Times change and disillusionment, white flight from cities, and lack of blue collar jobs and gentrification have made the working class whites especially in Boston feeling very hopeless. And the great majority of us raised here were raised with things like " the code of silence " being household terms, and cooperation with police being frowned upon. It cuts both ways. I used to think before i turned abt 16 when the cops caught us doing dumb stuff theyd say " wamna be arrested or take a beating?" We.d let them beat us senseless and lie to our parents and say we fought some other kids. And think the cops did us a favor. Now i look back and think jeez what sadists and weirdos those guys must have been and apparently this was pretty commob theoughout boston as i heard the story from other ppl in their own experiences and its happeed to previous generations.

In my case i had a low end middle class upbringing. It wuda been entirely lower class if not for my military officer father. Me and my mom finally escaped his drunken violence madness after years but it did a lot of damage. But with me i dnt know. I knew better. I always just.. wanted an escape and in hindsighr the warninfs were all there. Id do the nxt harder drug my friends would be satisfied or scared and id want something harder. Well i went as far as you can take it wgen i was about a week from 16 and shot heroin. It was 2001 there was this rock n roll mystique about it... and when i found out it was dirt cheap i was sank.

It was an awful decision and i cant emphasize the decision part. For one it made me realize why kids near that age arent sent to war. I walked around in my pubescent world where i knew everyjing and operated under the assumption id be dead by 25 tops and did absolutely insane crimes and stuff becauae of it and because i think i didnt have the sack to actually blow my head off.

Of course when youre that age u dont know anything about life or how much u can lose etc or how precious the time ur wasting is and so my idea of a romantiv demise via heroin addiction was a silly teenage fantasy when it woulda been a dirty selfish waste of a life and it would have been the height of stupidit6 and american white priviledge to even imagine throwing away my life to jail on a life installmebt plan and drugs for bags of powder - not even sitting in jail thinking " well if i got away i would have been rich " no there wasnt even the pride or honor of that. Just the dirty selfish life of an addict. Its a really pathetic low existence. People will freak out and send money to africa and especially liberals around harvard sq yet theyll walk past literal almost skelwtons strung out in the streets. But again.. in America youre not gonna starve to death in the streets unless you let yourself.

And suddenly i was 25 not dead and had wasted a lot of life and really screwed up a lot of stuff and i was sitting in jail for year number 5. I didnt get it right away then but around then. Its so hard to explain. 

A lot is hopelessness. A lot is endemic drug use. But a lot is that percocets and oxycontins became very accessible and cheap to get in florida and smuggle here in the early 2000s. Those are synthetic opiates. But no dirty reputation like heroin has. Well theyd use and get a tolerance and realize an oxy 80 was 80 bucks.. and find out sniffing a 20 of heroin would get them higher. Then naturally thatd progress to injecting it again to make the money go further.

Finally jail. Literally 99 percent of whites in prison at least here have heroin addictions. Its to the point if you goto jail in massachusetts and youre white and dont do heroin you.ll instantly come under suspicion as a child molestwr or a cop. People will wanna see paperwork and know who you know. Thats absolutely how pervasive it is.

I dont know man its ugly. Also its not just heroin. Once people get to that stage they like doing coke too usually and or pills like klonopins, gabapentins, clonodines, etc etc etc

 

Also i rlly dont wanna derail the thread further talkn abt myself. I got no provlem talkn abt everything that happened truthfully. Even in a thread or pms. But if anyone wants to talk abt it lets open a gdf thread or pm me.

Thanks.

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No man, that was a good read.  You should be proud for coming back from that -- most don't I imagine.  Once you give up hope, or can't picture a future ... wow, there's not much left that can bring you back, I am glad you managed to find a way.  Actually, you should probably be even more proud of not falling back into the trap, that's so much harder not to when life starts smacking you in the face again.

 

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Ah im just 15 minutes away from a bad decision forever..

Trust me once you go once its way to easy to fall back in. It sucks i dont know people who could say get me in a union. I do know people who would happily "front" me drugs and protection to make money but we all know the trap in that nevermind starting that venture out in someone elses pocket.

No most dont. Even if they temporarily do stop. A friend of mine Pete P from Central Sq Cambridge quit and moved to LA. He started working with addicts and helping them. He messed up once out there. And now hes gone. My ex wife? 2 yrs clean messed up and now she.ll always be 25.

It sucks and frankly I dont think the powers that be want a solution nor do I think the cartels either. Theres too mich money for both sides in jobs and everything else for a solution. And meanwhile its always midlevel or low level people who largely take dirtnaps or spend the rest of their life living in a bathroom.

The chances of a heroin addict staying off it for good are like one in 36. Thats miserable the only higher f up rate is with sex offenders and you dont wanna know what id do to them all as a group if i had the choice.

As far as jail recidivism its a steady 76 or 86 percent.  Dont get me wrong some stuff from movoes happens in jail but only a few. They vary wildly by state ( for example in federal prisons white people from new england and nyc dont join gangs. If you were from the rest of the country and didnt prove your worth to the heroi er aryan brotherhood or nazi low riders you.d become a victim at their hands and at the other racial groups gangs. However people from this region and the mafia guys from nyc stick together and heavily heavily frown on people from here joining nazi gangs. Dont get me wrong the whites from here in prison are hyper racist. As is everythibg in jail. You.ll see interaction and friends and everything among the races but when any violence breaks out everyone instinctively stands with their own. And sad to say god help you if you dont. So anyways the Boston and NYC crew ( and just like when im not in boston i notice people from towns 4 hrs away claim their from 'boston' everyone in the feds from new england is lumped into the boston crew ) are like their own gang in the feds. Also notably in the feds and out west shamrocks arw a white supremacist symbol ajd if youre not a nazi gang member theyll be literally cut off you. However theres so many ethnically irish people and shamrock tattoos that if youre from here you get  a pass)

So prison in higher security federal places, state out west like california can probably be pretty rapey stabey. Here rapes very uncommon. Stabbings are but only really if you get involved in yhe politics. To be honest Id say Massachusetts prisons are more like locked wards for the state to hide away its smallish criminal element to prey on mentally ill and drug addicts who arent violent if need be so the yuppies and tourists dont see "us". However besides like souza baranowski max aka shirley max which is what mci walpole used to be, e.g. max security for murderers etc, jails are pretty calm and youre safer there than on the streets. Because again a cop will eventually show up and find you in a jail. Whose to say anyone ever will on the outside? You lose a fistfight and get ko.d or down on the ground.. anything can happen.

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Hey Sublime, hang in there brother. This unusual stream of consciousness style is telling us already that things are not well with you. You have a first class mind (there are many on this board and we know our own), and a depth of soul to go with it. Don't let that Celtic darkness (I know it too, believe me) eat you. This world needs you, just don't become a prisoner of your own expectations. There is no trap you can't walk out of, no world you can't enlarge around yourself.

As the Russian proverb goes, "tomorrow will be better."  Swim with the tide.

 

 

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