Bulletpoint Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) On 9/25/2016 at 10:25 AM, Aragorn2002 said: Nothing suspicious about this movie, just very moving and well made. Sure, as long as we remember that it's not a documentary. The instructor openly admits tweaking the real story heavily to portray the Danes as the bad guys "to evoke an emotional response". For example, the commander of the mine clearing unit is shown to be a Dane, where in real life he was actually a German. The commander is even shown pissing on the mine clearers, which is not based on any documented event. The mine clearers are portrayed as innocent children with no knowledge of demining, where in real life, they were a mix of ages, most around 20 years of age, with many experienced combat engineers, who knew how their mines worked, and how to defuse them. They were not kept as slaves and driven into the minefield to die as shown in the movie, but were offered the dangerous work in exchange of salary, food and accomodation, rather than walk back to a devastated Germany. Etc. So while it doesn't glorify nazism, it still distorts history. Just someting to keep in mind while watching. Sources: http://politiken.dk/kultur/ECE2949335/historiker-roser-under-sandet-selv-om-der-skrues-liiige-lovligt-meget-paa-drama-knappen/ http://www.kristeligt-dagblad.dk/danmark/eksperter-film-og-tv-forplumrer-historieformidlingen Edited September 26, 2016 by Bulletpoint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 Bulletpoint. Yes, that is indeed something to keep in mind while watching. Strange how such sensational details have to be added nowadays to attract our attention to a movie. Good to know. Thanks for pointing that out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 2 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said: Bulletpoint. Yes, that is indeed something to keep in mind while watching. Strange how such sensational details have to be added nowadays to attract our attention to a movie. Good to know. Thanks for pointing that out. Recently there have been several Danish historical movies and TV series, and they have been discussed heavily here because of their deliberately distorted version of history. There seems to be this strange innate cultural self-hate in Denmark, and it's a real shame when it spills over into movies. I'm all for movies about Danish misdeeds, but let's stick to history in historical movies. Real history is plenty interesting in itself, I think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 12 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said: Recently there have been several Danish historical movies and TV series, and they have been discussed heavily here because of their deliberately distorted version of history. There seems to be this strange innate cultural self-hate in Denmark, and it's a real shame when it spills over into movies. I'm all for movies about Danish misdeeds, but let's stick to history in historical movies. Real history is plenty interesting in itself, I think. I've watched the series about the Danish-Prussian war some time ago. Although it had good moments, there was also pretty some self-hate in it. I'm also puzzled about the self-hatred which seems to be a constant element of European historical series and movies nowadays. Same usually happens with series or movies about the dutch past in the Netherlands Indies and such, so unfortunately it isn't restricted to Denmark. Patriotism is out of fashion nowadays.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said: I've watched the series about the Danish-Prussian war some time ago. Although it had good moments, there was also pretty some self-hate in it. The series (called 1864) was produced by Danish State Television and received a special public grant of 100 million kroner (13.4 million euro) for the production. It portrayed the Danish leader as being an irrational, bigoted war-monger, whereas in real life he actually preferred a peaceful solution based on sharing the contested area. After the series had been produced and shown on Danish national TV in prime time, the leader of the TV station's drama department freely admitted that he had used his considerable influence to commission and mold the series into an attack on a particular modern-day political party that he didn't like. So, in effect, what had been commissioned as an educational drama ended up being tax-paid political propaganda. Sources: http://politiken.dk/kultur/filmogtv/ECE3047211/gabold-1864-var-et-slag-mod-df/ http://videnskab.dk/kultur-samfund/1864-monrad-var-ikke-sa-gal-som-vi-tror Edited September 26, 2016 by Bulletpoint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 46 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said: The series (called 1864) was produced by Danish State Television and received a special public grant of 100 million kroner (13.4 million euro) for the production. It portrayed the Danish leader as being an irrational, bigoted war-monger, whereas in real life he actually preferred a peaceful solution based on sharing the contested area. After the series had been produced and shown on Danish national TV in prime time, the leader of the TV station's drama department freely admitted that he had used his considerable influence to commission and mold the series into an attack on a particular modern-day political party that he didn't like. So, in effect, what had been commissioned as an educational drama ended up being tax-paid political propaganda. Sources: http://politiken.dk/kultur/filmogtv/ECE3047211/gabold-1864-var-et-slag-mod-df/ http://videnskab.dk/kultur-samfund/1864-monrad-var-ikke-sa-gal-som-vi-tror Unbelievable what damage all these left-wing bastards cause to our societies and selfrespect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 Just now, Aragorn2002 said: Unbelievable what damage all these left-wing bastards cause to our societies and selfrespect. Actually I'm left-wing too I'm just not a bastard (I think), and I don't want to be fed bull****, no matter where in the political spectrum it comes from. Anyway, this thread is turning political, so let's call it a day here ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 Just now, Bulletpoint said: Actually I'm left-wing too I'm just not a bastard (I think), and I don't want to be fed bull****, no matter where in the political spectrum it comes from. Anyway, this thread is turning political, so let's call it a day here ... No, you're definitely not, Bulletpoint. Didn't mean to offend. Sorry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said: No, you're definitely not, Bulletpoint. Didn't mean to offend. Sorry. No offense taken. Was just making that disclaimer in case anyone wondered if I had a political agenda for posting these things about Danish movies and series. I don't. I just thought people should know. Edited September 26, 2016 by Bulletpoint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 6 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said: No offense taken. Was just making that disclaimer in case anyone wondered if I had a political agenda for posting these things about Danish movies and series. I don't. I just thought people should know. Well, right wing or left wing. A lie is a lie. I trully don't understand how people can prefer distorting the truth over telling the story like it was. And get away with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 7 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said: Well, right wing or left wing. A lie is a lie. I trully don't understand how people can prefer distorting the truth over telling the story like it was. And get away with it. I don't really know either, but I suppose they may be either changing the story to sell more movie tickets (with the fig leaf of "inspired by real events" in small letters at the end of the credits when everyone is asleep or has left the cinema), or they might do it for some higher cause to make others agree with their political views. They might simply believe 'the end justifies the means'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger73 Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 I have learned to never underestimate the human capacity for self-delusion. Modern propaganda has evolved much since WW1; not just governments can play anymore. "The medium is the message" began long before and continues long after the phrase was coined by Marshall McLuhan. It seems "truth" is often inconvenient . . . (With apologies to the Thread owner for derailing his discussion). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 By any chance did the ghost of a dead king appear, walking over the palace walls muttering "Something rotten in the state of Denmark."? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 For a look at how the Russians really operated when it came to Lend-Lease, please see Major Jordan's Diaries. Major Jordan was the direct US interface for the Army Air Corps with the Russians on Lend-Lease, and he meticulously detailed what the Russians, headed by aviator extraordinaire Colonel Anatoli Kotikov were up to, including wholesale industrial espionage of manufacturing plants (complete plans of one GE factory, for example) whose technology wasn't being exported and the relentless acquisition of nuclear related supplies. And when he tried to stop the Russians from shipping their ill got gains home via Lend-Lease aircraft what happened? Harry Hopkins overruled him! In fact, Harry Hopkins intervened repeatedly on behalf of the Russians. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 4 hours ago, John Kettler said: For a look at how the Russians really operated when it came to Lend-Lease, please see Major Jordan's Diaries. Major Jordan was the direct US interface for the Army Air Corps with the Russians on Lend-Lease, and he meticulously detailed what the Russians, headed by aviator extraordinaire Colonel Anatoli Kotikov were up to, including wholesale industrial espionage of manufacturing plants (complete plans of one GE factory, for example) whose technology wasn't being exported and the relentless acquisition of nuclear related supplies. And when he tried to stop the Russians from shipping their ill got gains home via Lend-Lease aircraft what happened? Harry Hopkins overruled him! In fact, Harry Hopkins intervened repeatedly on behalf of the Russians. Regards, John Kettler That is also mentioned in detail in the book, John. Same story from many different sources. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Aragorn2002, This is what happens when I've read only the first of four pages in a thread! The books look most interesting, but I believe it's essential that you also read Stinnett's Day of Deceit, which tears a whole series of Pearl Harbor AKA whoppers to shreds. From what I can see, there were multiple forces at work, each striving to slide, drag or force the US into the war. Why not? worked fine in the Great War! Additionally, the CFR's own internal documents clearly show the US wasn't fighting the war for the customary reasons given; that it was really about control of international trade markets after the war and that the US deliberately sat out the war until its rivals were spent before coming in. FDR hid the true goals with the famous "Four Freedoms" speech. The CFR docs show the group was terrified the Germans would find out and make huge propaganda hay, not to mention putting a crimp in getting foreign nationals to fight and die for the enrichment of American interests! PM me for this scholarly book's link if interested. Regards, John Kettler Edited October 5, 2016 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folkieredux Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 On 9/26/2016 at 0:38 PM, Aragorn2002 said: On 9/26/2016 at 0:22 PM, Aragorn2002 said: Unbelievable what damage all these left-wing bastards cause to our societies and selfrespect. How did this get by the moderators? what a bunch of BS! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 6 hours ago, John Kettler said: Aragorn2002, This is what happens when I've read only the first of four pages in a thread! The books look most interesting, but I believe it's essential that you also read Stinnett's Day of Deceit, which tears a whole series of Pearl Harbor AKA whoppers to shreds. From what I can see, there were multiple forces at work, each striving to slide, drag or force the US into the war. Why not? worked fine in the Great War! Additionally, the CFR's own internal documents clearly show the US wasn't fighting the war for the customary reasons given; that it was really about control of international trade markets after the war and that the US deliberately sat out the war until its rivals were spent before coming in. FDR hid the true goals with the famous "Four Freedoms" speech. The CFR docs show the group was terrified the Germans would find out and make huge propaganda hay, not to mention putting a crimp in getting foreign nationals to fight and die for the enrichment of American interests! PM me for this scholarly book's link if interested. Regards, John Kettler Thanks, John, I've ordered the book just now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Aragorn2002, Happy to help! It's quite a read. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Conspiracy Theory Train has left the station. I wonder where we will end this time? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 17 minutes ago, akd said: Conspiracy Theory Train has left the station. I wonder where we will end this time? Nearer the truth hopefully. But it ain't necessarily conspiracy, it is historical research by good historians. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Aragorn2002 said: Nearer the truth hopefully. But it ain't necessarily conspiracy, it is historical research by good historians. No, this train originates at History Station and terminates somewhere far from History. Lizard People Station is a good bet. Re: Day of Deceit, this excerpt from the Journal of American History review provides a good starting point: Doenecke, Justus D. The Journal of American History 89, no. 1 (2002): 281-82. Edited October 5, 2016 by akd 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 18 minutes ago, akd said: No, this train originates at History Station and terminates somewhere far from History. Lizard People Station is a good bet. Re: Day of Deceit, this excerpt from the Journal of American History review provides a good starting point: Doenecke, Justus D. The Journal of American History 89, no. 1 (2002): 281-82. Well, I don't know about this book, because I haven't read it yet. But in 'Stalin's secret agents, the subversion of Roosevelt's government' it is mentioned that indications of the coming attack came from several directions, including from dutch intelligence in the Netherlands Indies. ' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 On 9/26/2016 at 10:00 AM, Bulletpoint said: Recently there have been several Danish historical movies and TV series, and they have been discussed heavily here because of their deliberately distorted version of history. There seems to be this strange innate cultural self-hate in Denmark, and it's a real shame when it spills over into movies. I'm all for movies about Danish misdeeds, but let's stick to history in historical movies. Real history is plenty interesting in itself, I think. Bulletpoint, This is a cross post from the GDF regarding 9.APRIL. I thought it was a great war pic. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) 59 minutes ago, John Kettler said: Bulletpoint, This is a cross post from the GDF regarding 9.APRIL. I thought it was a great war pic. I haven't watched the movie, but from what I read, it sticks pretty close to what actually happened on April 9 when the Germans attacked. Two historians are quoted as saying the movie is very realistic regarding the equipment, and many specific scenes are based directly on eye witness accounts. One of them adds that it's in a whole other league than "1864", as it's not politicised in the same way. However, the instructor apparently condenses the actions of a couple different Danish units into one for cinematic effect. Edited October 7, 2016 by Bulletpoint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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