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The Radzy Award: Scenario Test & Discussion Thread


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This scenario is ready for initial testing. I am using the naming convention "beta" plus a number for the test versions, the first being "beta1." The release versions will be numbered without the "beta." I have submitted the file to TPG2 and will post a link when they have processed it (on hold until next test version). In the meantime, here is a DROPBOX LINK (link removed as of 09/30/16. Will add back when next test version is ready).

The scenario is a fictional German town defense vs. AI only and uses the stock Radzymin 2 Master Map, slightly modified. Both sides have combined arms.

Here are screens of the briefing & tactical map:

28961032284_10d2c79e68_b.jpg

 

29506039261_9c1c8b698c_b.jpg

 

This is a long-play scenario that aims to give a decent challenge to experienced players.

Thank you very much for your interest and I hope you have fun. I am looking very forward to community feedback!

All the best,

Macisle

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I did a lot of work on the scenario yesterday, mostly in the AI Plan. Here are the highlights: Fixed the runaway MG team problem (yes, it was just the kind of dumb mistake I thought it was, but

Hello Macisle...

Thanks for the scenario ! I have just had a quick look at it so far...

- The briefingscreens are lovely (some of the best i have ever seen in CM). Splendid work ! :)

 

- The scoring though...I'm not so sure it will work well in its current state. (i might very well be wrong about this though).

If i recall correctly the OCCUPY OBJECTIVES will not allow any enemy units at all to be withing the objective location to get points for it.

In this scenario both the germans and the russians share the excact same objectives. UNIT OBJECTIVES on the entire enemy force Worth 500 points

and OCCUPY OBJECTIVE on the 'bridgehead' also Worth 500 Point.

If i'm not wrong about this will mean that the german player might be able to destroy pretty much the entire russian force and halt the attack and still not get

ANY Points for holding the 'bridgehead' if only a single russian unit manges to enter that area. If this happens only the UNIT OBJECTIVE scoring will matter in deciding

the victory level (wich might turn out to be pretty much a draw). That should not happen imo if the attack has been completally destroyed but for one single russian unit that managed to enter the 'bridgehead area'....The russian attack is defeated ! The primary objective is achived.

In the same way...

If the russian attack is succesful and they manage to push through the village and enter the 'bridgehead'-area in force the russians should get a victory...but if the player only

keeps a single surviving unit within that area the russians will not get any Points for it....Again....only the UNIT OBJECTIVE scoring will count for victory calculations...

wich might en up in a draw or at best minor victory eventhough the russians achived their goal...

 

I'm not 100 % sure about this but i belive this is how the scoring works...

 

I'm looking forward to playing this...Looks like a nice fight...Again...

Thank you :)

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, RepsolCBR said:

Hello Macisle...

Thanks for the scenario ! I have just had a quick look at it so far...

- The briefingscreens are lovely (some of the best i have ever seen in CM). Splendid work ! :)

 

- The scoring though...I'm not so sure it will work well in its current state. (i might very well be wrong about this though).

If i recall correctly the OCCUPY OBJECTIVES will not allow any enemy units at all to be withing the objective location to get points for it.

In this scenario both the germans and the russians share the excact same objectives. UNIT OBJECTIVES on the entire enemy force Worth 500 points

and OCCUPY OBJECTIVE on the 'bridgehead' also Worth 500 Point.

If i'm not wrong about this will mean that the german player might be able to destroy pretty much the entire russian force and halt the attack and still not get

ANY Points for holding the 'bridgehead' if only a single russian unit manges to enter that area. If this happens only the UNIT OBJECTIVE scoring will matter in deciding

the victory level (wich might turn out to be pretty much a draw). That should not happen imo if the attack has been completally destroyed but for one single russian unit that managed to enter the 'bridgehead area'....The russian attack is defeated ! The primary objective is achived.

In the same way...

If the russian attack is succesful and they manage to push through the village and enter the 'bridgehead'-area in force the russians should get a victory...but if the player only

keeps a single surviving unit within that area the russians will not get any Points for it....Again....only the UNIT OBJECTIVE scoring will count for victory calculations...

wich might en up in a draw or at best minor victory eventhough the russians achived their goal...

 

I'm not 100 % sure about this but i belive this is how the scoring works...

 

I'm looking forward to playing this...Looks like a nice fight...Again...

Thank you :)

 

 

 

 

Thank you very much for the kind words and feedabck, RepsolCBR! They are very much appreciated.

On the point scoring:

That is the design area where I am most concerned about issues at this point, so getting community feedback like yours is super-helfpul. 

The goal is to create a strong incentive for the player to take back any lost territory in the objective zone. The center and right flanks are easier to hold due to the natural lines created by the more urban building distribution. However, the left flank, while taking longer for the enemy to approach, offers more village-like building distribution, making it very difficult for infantry alone to hold. This means the North Group will often penetrate the objective zone to the north of the central railway station.

So, the player must continue to hold the center and right flanks, while stripping assets from them to assemble a strong enough counterattack force to clear out the enemy units that have taken defensive positions in the objective zone. While this may be easy enough for competent players in terms of selecting defensive positions, enemy pressure is likely to continue into the time window when the player must be counterattacking on the left flank. That makes ammo consumption an important dynamic at play. If the player has not kept supply lines open and/or distributed ammo well, center and left flank defenders may have to give up good positions and fall back within the objective zone in their areas. That, or the player may be forced to burn up his counterattack force's resources to hold other flanks.

This, along with the AI's deep reserve pool, helps mitigate the AI's poor abilities in the Attacker role, as well as the player having access to some very good defensive terrain.

The logic behind the victory point spread is as follows:

Both sides have a key interest in fully controlling the objective zone. For the Germans, it is to prevent encirclement of the town and block the Soviets from interdicting their post-scenario general relief forces. For the Soviets, the goal is to encircle the town and prevent the Germans from breaking the encirclement.

The German player is very likely to kill A LOT of Soviets. However, the Soviets have a lot of manpower and are assumed to have more on the way post-scenario. Therefore, the German gets far fewer points per Soviet loss. The Germans, on the other hand, are giving up many more points per loss. They have far less defenders to hold the town/objective and are assumed to have less post-scenario forces as well. Therefore, the Soviets can take many more losses without operational breakdown, while the Germans can't.

So, my thinking (and I may well be wrong!:)) is that a failure for either side to fully control the objective should place the ball on the "Draw" line, to be moved according to casualties. If the player has done well with the inflicting losses and preserving his force, then he can pull a better level of victory accordingly. If not, then the Soviets can move up from the Draw line accordingly.

The Soviets may still be at an unfair points advantage, given the AI's lack of ability to intelligently organize an actual clearing of the objective zone. However, the player does have a lot to chew on and holding the objective zone is not a definite. There are a lot of variables in this scenario: player tactics & commands, reinforcement arrival times, ammo consumption/distribution, air attack results...etc. Counterattacks by the player mean his losses are likely to go up, which could end up rewarding the Soviet side with more points than the player gains from them, as well as playing to the Soviet infantry's close-range advantage. I don't want to be unfair to the AI. But, my goal is to give experienced players a meaty challenge, not stick it to them.

The main problem may be dealing with players who give up on the objective zone early and just try to lay low and inflict as many losses on the Soviets as possible for the points. Then again, there are a lot of variables at play and, depending on the terrain they choose, that may not pan out for them either.

I am looking very forward to hearing playtest results and getting post-play feedback on the point scoring. I'm totally open to changing things if folks offer a better way to support the scenario concept and goals.

Thanks again for your feedback and help. I can't wait to hear how your playtest goes!

 

 

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Macisle,

  I'll try to play with this a little. Not sure how timely I will be, because of real life - the usual problem, haha.

  Not sure about the black sky.  Conditions said clear and warm, but it sure looks like a storm is coming.  Might be a mod conflict somewhere.

  Attached a screen shot.  Clearly a horrifying sight.  Purple flares are ripping up and down the line.  "Feind Panzer!!!"

Heinrich505

155qqua.jpg

 

 

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Macisle,

  I'm a little over 36 minutes into the battle.  First impressions...the map looks very nice.  As noted above, not sure about the sky.  I think it heightens the tension, but that is just me.  As an additional observation, once things get going, EVERY turn is a crisis.  Things are not going well but then again, I didn't expect them to.  This battle is supposed to be desperate and so far, IT IS!!! ;D  I am playing it on Elite setting.

For anyone planning to playtest...Spoilers...

*

*

*

*

*

*

The initial tank attack on the right flank has been stopped momentarily.  The three AT guns didn't last long once the Soviet arty stopped.  They did manage a few kills and it appears the SU-76s have stopped and are letting the infantry flood forward.  I would have thought they'd last a little longer, but that is subjective.  The Soviets know where the guns are once they start shooting. 

My center is pretty much shattered by this time.  I might have fallen back sooner, but I was hoping for some tank kills to slow the assault down.  If any of those buggers with the panzershreks survive this horror, they are all going back to AT school.  Not a one has shown me any skill at working their "stovepipe."  They have, however, killed a lot of trees, so I guess I'll have to be satisfied with that.    I am trying to give them armor covered arcs out to around 100 meters but this doesn't seem to have increased their abilities any.

The one shrek team in the center managed to fire off all his shots and hit nothing, so he was run back to the ammo dump and now has 6 more.  I am not expecting great things from him.

Another team blindly plinked away with shot after shot, failed to notice that another T-34 had crunched through the hedges about 60 meters from their left, and they were promptly blown away.  To give them just a little credit - reluctantly - they did actually hit a T-34 in the flank, but I don't think it was a kill.

My lads seem to be rather timid when it comes to using grenades.  One squad sat there in their building, looking directly at an aggressive T-34 tank that had driven to 15 meters from their spot.  They refused to use any of their grenades and several turns later they fired...their...rifles and MGs...UGH!!!  Faceplant.  Yes, they were gunned down in spectacular fashion shortly after that. 

Another group did the same thing while looking at the REAR of a T-34.  Tank fright?  Perhaps.

I rushed another squad out of their building to attack the rear of yet another T-34, and they snap-fired their panzerfaust, did get a hit, didn't get a kill, did use all their freaking grenades, "might" have gotten an immobilization result, and did get gunned down in the street once the T-34 swung their turret around to deal with them.

As noted, center is pretty much shattered right now, right flank in momentary stasis, tank-wise, and a veritable tsunami of Russian infantry is about to crash on my right and right-center front.

The left flank is pretty quiet.  I've got the shrek boys on 100 meter armor covered arcs as I don't want them wasting their rockets on Russian scout cars.  Some armor is massing on that side as well but no push as yet.

Hope this is helpful.

 

Heinrich505

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Macisle,

With 1 hour and 20 minutes left now, things are a little better.  Both sections of the reinforcements have arrived, I've got some mortars coming down, and with some skillful use of the jagdpanzers, I've managed to stop the rush in the center.

Spoilers***************************************

 

 

 

The schrek boys are still not working out well.  I have not figured it out yet.  They are usually within command control so they should be okay morale-wise. 

I was reluctant to split up the jagdpanzers but I had to, because of the critical situation in the center.  I eased one of them out onto the main road into the center, and he promptly made a mess of the Russian armor that had been arrogantly advancing down the road.  There are burning wrecks littering the road now, and the enemy infantry are trying to infiltrate between the houses.  I have the barest of infantry screens, mostly one or two men here and there acting as lookouts to spot the enemy as they sneak forward.

The right flank is still barely holding on.  I tried to pull back the survivors from the AT gun section, only to run them right into a Soviet artillery barrage.  I think that one loader out of all the crewmen and loaders has made it to safety.  The two MGs and the HQ sections on the far right held out for a very long time, and now I am pulling them back.  They slowed up the enemy infantry for a good while.

The left flank was pretty quiet as the Russians were holding back a bit, using armored cars to scout my positions.  I shoed them away a few times and then I managed to ease one of the jagdpanzers over in the area.  I found an excellent spot on the far left flank, because I needed to try and stop the Russians from sweeping around my units.  The jagdpanzer commander calmly and coldly lined up on them, punching the first round through and through on the armored car.  Then he proceeded to line up on four T-34s and most of them are burning or quiet wrecks. 

Then I rushed him up the road and he made a hard left to try and ease into the small village on the left flank.  The men had been maintaining incredible fire discipline, as they are, for the most part, not just shooting at everything in sight.  I am not using covered arcs on most of them, so they are holding their fire until something necessary needs to be shot.  I was trying to keep the HQ section from frivolously using their one panzerfaust, but they couldn't resist when yet another AC decided to foolishly advance down the street.  The AC is burning now but I'm one less panzerfaust.

Several T-34s are set up on overwatch and I am trying to ease the jagdpanzer into position among the houses to try and flank them.

There is no time to relax and I have not seen a lull in the overall fighting yet.  Things have quieted down in the center for the time being, but only because there are so many burning Soviet T-34s there.  The T-76 AT guns are now starting to push into my right flank.  I have two jagdpanzers working that area but I can't seem to line up on anything because of the trees and underbrush.  There are three T-34s on the other side of a glade, and I can't see them anymore.  I'm trying to ease up a panzerschrek team but I'm considering pulling back and letting the T-34s come to me.

I think the tension level is very high, making this one a very desperate fight.  You seem to be on track so far with how you've put this together.

It is back to work tomorrow so my updates might be fewer in the upcoming week.255185f.jpg

Right Flank

 

2sblnuq.jpg

Center Area

 

2uz3zpx.jpg

Left Flank.

The shots are included as I didn't know if that might help you see how things are developing with the AI attack.

Heinrich505

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6 hours ago, Heinrich505 said:

Macisle,

  I'm a little over 36 minutes into the battle.  First impressions...the map looks very nice.  As noted above, not sure about the sky.  I think it heightens the tension, but that is just me.  As an additional observation, once things get going, EVERY turn is a crisis.  Things are not going well but then again, I didn't expect them to.  This battle is supposed to be desperate and so far, IT IS!!! ;D  I am playing it on Elite setting.

For anyone planning to playtest...Spoilers...

*

*

*

*

*

*

The initial tank attack on the right flank has been stopped momentarily.  The three AT guns didn't last long once the Soviet arty stopped.  They did manage a few kills and it appears the SU-76s have stopped and are letting the infantry flood forward.  I would have thought they'd last a little longer, but that is subjective.  The Soviets know where the guns are once they start shooting. 

My center is pretty much shattered by this time.  I might have fallen back sooner, but I was hoping for some tank kills to slow the assault down.  If any of those buggers with the panzershreks survive this horror, they are all going back to AT school.  Not a one has shown me any skill at working their "stovepipe."  They have, however, killed a lot of trees, so I guess I'll have to be satisfied with that.    I am trying to give them armor covered arcs out to around 100 meters but this doesn't seem to have increased their abilities any.

The one shrek team in the center managed to fire off all his shots and hit nothing, so he was run back to the ammo dump and now has 6 more.  I am not expecting great things from him.

Another team blindly plinked away with shot after shot, failed to notice that another T-34 had crunched through the hedges about 60 meters from their left, and they were promptly blown away.  To give them just a little credit - reluctantly - they did actually hit a T-34 in the flank, but I don't think it was a kill.

My lads seem to be rather timid when it comes to using grenades.  One squad sat there in their building, looking directly at an aggressive T-34 tank that had driven to 15 meters from their spot.  They refused to use any of their grenades and several turns later they fired...their...rifles and MGs...UGH!!!  Faceplant.  Yes, they were gunned down in spectacular fashion shortly after that. 

Another group did the same thing while looking at the REAR of a T-34.  Tank fright?  Perhaps.

I rushed another squad out of their building to attack the rear of yet another T-34, and they snap-fired their panzerfaust, did get a hit, didn't get a kill, did use all their freaking grenades, "might" have gotten an immobilization result, and did get gunned down in the street once the T-34 swung their turret around to deal with them.

As noted, center is pretty much shattered right now, right flank in momentary stasis, tank-wise, and a veritable tsunami of Russian infantry is about to crash on my right and right-center front.

The left flank is pretty quiet.  I've got the shrek boys on 100 meter armor covered arcs as I don't want them wasting their rockets on Russian scout cars.  Some armor is massing on that side as well but no push as yet.

Hope this is helpful.

 

Heinrich505

Thanks for the playtest and feedback, Heinrich505!

The funky sky is definitely an issue outside of the game file. It's never happened to me. The map is a stock map from the German campaign in CMRT with a few very minor tweaks (road widening for the AI in one spot, doors added to some buildings in another couple, some extra foliage at one map edge, etc.). So, I can't take credit for it. I agree that it's a lovely map, though. It's probably my favorite stock map in CMRT.

If every turn is a crisis, then things are going just how I planned them! MUHAHAHA! But seriously, the tension gets going quick and pretty much stays on on one form or another to varying levels. That's by design.

However, the player's moves will determine if he can hold. Oh, I see you just posted again. Let me read and continue there...

 

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5 minutes ago, Heinrich505 said:

Macisle,

With 1 hour and 20 minutes left now, things are a little better.  Both sections of the reinforcements have arrived, I've got some mortars coming down, and with some skillful use of the jagdpanzers, I've managed to stop the rush in the center.

Spoilers***************************************

 

 

 

The schrek boys are still not working out well.  I have not figured it out yet.  They are usually within command control so they should be okay morale-wise. 

I was reluctant to split up the jagdpanzers but I had to, because of the critical situation in the center.  I eased one of them out onto the main road into the center, and he promptly made a mess of the Russian armor that had been arrogantly advancing down the road.  There are burning wrecks littering the road now, and the enemy infantry are trying to infiltrate between the houses.  I have the barest of infantry screens, mostly one or two men here and there acting as lookouts to spot the enemy as they sneak forward.

The right flank is still barely holding on.  I tried to pull back the survivors from the AT gun section, only to run them right into a Soviet artillery barrage.  I think that one loader out of all the crewmen and loaders has made it to safety.  The two MGs and the HQ sections on the far right held out for a very long time, and now I am pulling them back.  They slowed up the enemy infantry for a good while.

The left flank was pretty quiet as the Russians were holding back a bit, using armored cars to scout my positions.  I shoed them away a few times and then I managed to ease one of the jagdpanzers over in the area.  I found an excellent spot on the far left flank, because I needed to try and stop the Russians from sweeping around my units.  The jagdpanzer commander calmly and coldly lined up on them, punching the first round through and through on the armored car.  Then he proceeded to line up on four T-34s and most of them are burning or quiet wrecks. 

Then I rushed him up the road and he made a hard left to try and ease into the small village on the left flank.  The men had been maintaining incredible fire discipline, as they are, for the most part, not just shooting at everything in sight.  I am not using covered arcs on most of them, so they are holding their fire until something necessary needs to be shot.  I was trying to keep the HQ section from frivolously using their one panzerfaust, but they couldn't resist when yet another AC decided to foolishly advance down the street.  The AC is burning now but I'm one less panzerfaust.

Several T-34s are set up on overwatch and I am trying to ease the jagdpanzer into position among the houses to try and flank them.

There is no time to relax and I have not seen a lull in the overall fighting yet.  Things have quieted down in the center for the time being, but only because there are so many burning Soviet T-34s there.  The T-76 AT guns are now starting to push into my right flank.  I have two jagdpanzers working that area but I can't seem to line up on anything because of the trees and underbrush.  There are three T-34s on the other side of a glade, and I can't see them anymore.  I'm trying to ease up a panzerschrek team but I'm considering pulling back and letting the T-34s come to me.

I think the tension level is very high, making this one a very desperate fight.  You seem to be on track so far with how you've put this together.

It is back to work tomorrow so my updates might be fewer in the upcoming week.255185f.jpg

Right Flank

 

2sblnuq.jpg

Center Area

 

2uz3zpx.jpg

Left Flank.

The shots are included as I didn't know if that might help you see how things are developing with the AI attack.

Heinrich505

Thanks for the excellent battle report, Heinrich505! This is super feedback.

The battle is playing out as intended and following a similar arc to some of my playtesting. The player's natural desire to group his TDs to achieve local fire superiority will smash up against the need split them up to put out fires and help his infantry hold the line. Reinforcement groups usually have to plug gaps as soos as they arrive as well.

I won't comment more than that at this point, so as not to give spoilers.

On the shrecks...

It sounds like you've had some back luck on shots taken, but you've got the right tactic now. Using 100m circular armor arcs is exactly what I do. That, and try to have them in buildings where they can take a shot or two and run out the back to hide, rinse and repeat.

Your center may have taken more punishment than it needed to in the early stages. The player has to time his fallbacks to avoid high casualties. Believe me, I've had some nailbiters in my playtests! One playtest, my center HQ lost a man and the wounded leader and his radio man got stuck in a building behind enemy lines for the rest of the battle. I put a very short arc on them and they spent the battle feeding me intel and calling in arty. In fact, I've had units get cut off a number of times with them having to hide for awhile to later rejoin their forces. It's kinda' cool when it happens. Don't forget your smoke grenades. Those can really help with the fallbacks.

I love your report on the ACs on the left. They are intended to make the player feel like they are actually scouting for the Soviets. Some Soviet armor is tasked with overwatching specific roads. So, that seems to be working as intended, too.

The endgame is where I am most likely to need tweaking, so I am looking very forward to your feeback on that.

Thanks again for your work on this. It is very helpful and much-appreciated!

 

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Some initial brainstorming on revamped terrain objectives for test version beta 2 (Ojbectives 3 and 5 are two painted areas each with the value label in-between):

29016884844_6ed7093e3b_c.jpg

I also adjusted some buildings in area 2, replacing standalone with similar setup in modular form. I think the AI tends to go for the designated front door of standalones, even if that means becoming more exposed to enemy LOS in doing so. Hopefully, my tweaking will encourage the AI to enter the closest door, even if it's a "rear" one.

Points are 50 each for a total of 500. I could weight them to be more valuable as they get closer to the Axis/SW map edge, but the AI may have a tough time getting to any of those. My goal is to be fair to the AI, create more defined potential counterattack zones, and perhaps facilitate some interesting triggers.

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Nice work. I like your plan.  I do have one comment about the above screen shot: Some of the objectives' boundaries are not clear.  Specifically 1,2, 3, 6, 7 and 8.  I am cool with non rectangle and non contiguous objectives however since there is no visible space between the members of that block it is difficult to tell where one starts and one ends.  Clearly they are not just squares and I think I can make a reasonable guess at some from the screen shot but I highly doubt during game play at camera level 1, 2 or 3 it would be clear.

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Hello...

I also think that multiple terrain objectives are probably the best way to go...I like your overall plan for this mission !

I have only played a few turns so far but some initial comments...


The initial bombardment...


To large parts i like it alot. Good mix of HE and smoke imo.

I think it is a good thing that the bombardment does not land right on top of the player forces. This is a personal prefrence but i think it can be a bit to frustrating when half your
force gets knocked out in the prepartory bombardment (realistic as that might be)...


There are a few things though that you might considder....

I don't know if you mean for it to be a heavy prepartory bombardment of the entire area or more off a supporting, lower caliber, fire missions to deal with spotted threats...


- If it is the first i think that you could perhaps place quite a number of craters on the map to simulate previously hit areas. Maybe Rubble the roofs of a number of the buildings in the village.
(this does not have to be a massive amount of detsroyed buildings imo...but atleast a few...This along with some craters scattered around the area will improve the feeling a larger barrage haveing been fired on the area.)

I would also try and make the artillery-target (He) areas in the editor somewhat larger (not massive...but a little larger). hopefully this will make the incomming fire to be a bit more dispersed.
I know this can be tricky. The AI artillery programing is not very user friendly in my opinion and increasing the target areas might not work if you want to increase the dispersion.

It might be something to try though...I feel that the incoming HE fire might be a bit to CONCENTRATED in the areas that are being hit right now if this is meant to simulate a larger bombardment.

- If you mean for this to be more of a reactive firemission to deal with spotted threats i don't think that you need to change it much....perhaps place a few craters closer to the players forces to simulate previous hits..


Some minor suggestions only...Overall i like the bombardment !


The AI-programing...

I'm about 10 minutes into the scenario and as far as i can tell the AI programing is working out very well so far. I have seen some nice russian attacks (armour supported by infantry and some recon elements advancing ahead on my left.)
Well done ! so far imo...(i'm however not the one to tell you if this is a  historically correct way for the russians to attack or if tis tactically perfect....but to me it looks good !)


Force selection...

Here too...good choises imo.

 

Good Jobb ! B)

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10 hours ago, IanL said:

Nice work. I like your plan.  I do have one comment about the above screen shot: Some of the objectives' boundaries are not clear.  Specifically 1,2, 3, 6, 7 and 8.  I am cool with non rectangle and non contiguous objectives however since there is no visible space between the members of that block it is difficult to tell where one starts and one ends.  Clearly they are not just squares and I think I can make a reasonable guess at some from the screen shot but I highly doubt during game play at camera level 1, 2 or 3 it would be clear.

Thanks for the feedback! I agree with your concern and will be looking to make everything easily understandable for the player. I haven't painted the zones in the Editor yet. The pic is just my first Photoshop brainstorming. I had originally intended to have many small objectives, but got caught up in the glow of a really fun playtest that played out in a way that made me change to the one big area that is in the beta 1 version. However, as RepsolCBR first pointed out, that's really not the way to go. It's great to be getting input from fresh eyes. It's easy to get off target on a subjective tangent when doing things solo.

 

6 hours ago, RepsolCBR said:

Hello...

I also think that multiple terrain objectives are probably the best way to go...I like your overall plan for this mission !

I have only played a few turns so far but some initial comments...


The initial bombardment...


To large parts i like it alot. Good mix of HE and smoke imo.

I think it is a good thing that the bombardment does not land right on top of the player forces. This is a personal prefrence but i think it can be a bit to frustrating when half your
force gets knocked out in the prepartory bombardment (realistic as that might be)...


There are a few things though that you might considder....

I don't know if you mean for it to be a heavy prepartory bombardment of the entire area or more off a supporting, lower caliber, fire missions to deal with spotted threats...


- If it is the first i think that you could perhaps place quite a number of craters on the map to simulate previously hit areas. Maybe Rubble the roofs of a number of the buildings in the village.
(this does not have to be a massive amount of detsroyed buildings imo...but atleast a few...This along with some craters scattered around the area will improve the feeling a larger barrage haveing been fired on the area.)

I would also try and make the artillery-target (He) areas in the editor somewhat larger (not massive...but a little larger). hopefully this will make the incomming fire to be a bit more dispersed.
I know this can be tricky. The AI artillery programing is not very user friendly in my opinion and increasing the target areas might not work if you want to increase the dispersion.

It might be something to try though...I feel that the incoming HE fire might be a bit to CONCENTRATED in the areas that are being hit right now if this is meant to simulate a larger bombardment.

- If you mean for this to be more of a reactive firemission to deal with spotted threats i don't think that you need to change it much....perhaps place a few craters closer to the players forces to simulate previous hits..


Some minor suggestions only...Overall i like the bombardment !


The AI-programing...

I'm about 10 minutes into the scenario and as far as i can tell the AI programing is working out very well so far. I have seen some nice russian attacks (armour supported by infantry and some recon elements advancing ahead on my left.)
Well done ! so far imo...(i'm however not the one to tell you if this is a  historically correct way for the russians to attack or if tis tactically perfect....but to me it looks good !)


Force selection...

Here too...good choises imo.

 

Good Jobb ! B)

Thanks for your continuing help, RepsolCBR!

The initial bombardment represents the Soviets attempting use smoke to provide some cover for their advancing troops and HE to either hit likely enemy defense locations (right flank) or block enemy movement in response to initial Soviet moves (center and left flank). On the right flank, it is assumed that they are going for the players ATG/HMG setup zone as a likely enemy strong point, but are a bit off on their arty targeting. They are assumed to be a bit off in one of the center areas as well. I did extensive testing (10 + runs) to make sure that the player doesn't stand to lose more than a few casualites in the ATG zone, if any. Even if not hiding anybody, I think the most lost in testing were single men from various teams and no more than three total on any given test. No leaders, radio men or ATG/HMGs were lost in any of the tests. As the designer, I want to dial up the tension big time in the opening moments and make the player feel like the Hordes of Doom are desending upon him, while not actually inflicting any real losses on him.

I initially experimented with larger target areas, but found that even with the amount of arty modules I have lined up, that some were getting no hits and others were petering out earlier than what one would expect at the chosen level of damage. It seemed that larger areas created a question as to whether the arty would show up everywhere or not. Some runs it did, some runs it didn't. The current setup was arrived at after pretty extensive testing and seems to produce a consistent result.

There will probably be comments on the flow of things once the ATGs open up. That has been tested a lot, too. I'll save my comments until folks play through that part.

 

5 hours ago, Pete Wenman said:

 

Good to see this map getting some use, and I'll follow developments here with interest. Now if only I had time to give it a spin instead of working on other things ;)

 

P

That's your map? Well, that's certainly no surprise. You are one of my big map heroes and if your name is on it, it's probably going to be gold. Thanks so much for all your work, Pete!

So, at this point guys, I've already identified a number of areas that need attention and improvement. The concept, force mix, opening and action build up are in pretty good shape. However, the objectives and AI plan need some careful reworking to make the mid and end game be what they are intended to be. To do that, though, I need player input to know how the battle is playing out. I have a lot of ideas and there are a lot of tools available (tweaking of objectives and AI plan, potential triggers, etc.). It's just a question of new eyes letting me know where and how much to go for.

Two other bits and pieces to mention:

I also need to finally solve an annoying AI problem. I've got some runaway MG team groups (the center ones are the worst) that I can't get to stay in place as long as they should. They keep leading the charge, as it were, when they are suppsed to be providing cover fire and moving up later. It's probably some obvious thing that will be embarrassing when I find it, but so far, I haven't been able to. My first thought was a stray painted tile in the AI plan, but I couldn't find any.

The composition of the TD platoon was carefully arrived at. The big cats were out from the get-go and I wanted to do something different than Stugs or PIVs, if possible. The current TDs have almost as much HE output as a PIV, at the cost of less MG output/ammo and no turret. And, importantly, they can very often take punch to the front from a T-34/76. Sometimes two or three! I felt they really hit the spot in terms of giving the player a small, but potent (just not kitty potent) armor force in both the AT and anti-infantry role. The player must also be careful about their ammo. There is a very useful loadout there, but it has to be monitored and wisely applied.

Having said that, I've been struggling with the desire to mix things up a bit more on the German side and worry that the current TDs may be a bit too resilient in their frontal armor. Just yesterday, I ran a test with a Marder III platoon subbed in for the TDs, followed by a reduced platoon (3) of PIVs later in the game, along with more reinforcement infantry -- a full Straggler formation in staggered arrival, but with no extra panzershrecks. That, and dropping the FOs and mortars in favor of the battalion commander being on map (to call arty) and using divisional light, medium, and heavy howitzers.

I just ran it long enough to see how the Marders did. Better than I expected, but their ammo loadout is really small. That would potentially offset by the PIV's loadout, but I feel like my current forcemix is more on target than what I tried yesterday. If it ain't broke...

Anyway, thanks again for the responses and interest guys! I really want to make this scenario live up to its potential and am willing to put in the work to get it there.

Oh, quick edit:

I feel like this scenario really lends itself to having multiple AI Plans that can diverge from the core at a certain point and make variations on it. The current plan is to have a full five Plans. However, I want to finalize a core plan first. Until then, there will only be one.

Edited by Macisle
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Just a few more thoughts that popped into my head...

In the early days of the scenario, I had a large rocket barrage on the main town area (but avoiding where the players troops actually were). I don't know for sure, but I think that actually drew ordnance from other artillery modules as the other target areas seemed to be less reliable in terms of presence, amount and duration of arty the larger that the big town barrage got.

It would SURE be great to be able to program timed and/or triggered arty attacks in the Editor. While the AI can be pretty good with targets of opportunity during the game, the scenario designer gets one shot at the opening of the scenario for anything coordinated. That especially impacts the use of smoke. That heavily influenced the way the scenario opening evolved.

Another thing that this scenario brought home is how quickly 16 AI groups can be used up. I think I remember reading that BF was thinking of expanding that number. That would be AWESOME. As things stand, I'm barely able to get the coordination I want in the scenario. If I had more groups (and objective zones for triggers), I could make the AI much more effecive at taking terrain objectives. Right now, I have to mostly keep things at the company level for infantry. Platoon level would be a lot better for what the AI is up against here.

RepsolCBR's comments on shellholes sparked a way for me to fill a plot hole. I may use them to explain why the center and right flank platoons have not gone further forward, while the left flank platoon has fanned out pretty far from the town center. I needed to keep the center and right platoons back to keep the opening action tight and to prevent the player from suicidal initial moves. Pre-game arty would be a good explanation.

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Macisle,

  I think the initial barrage was very well done.  I was worried that my ATG group would be blasted into oblivion before the battle even began, but the Russians were just a little off target and my guys survived.  I had one of the ammo team for a gun take a slight wound and I'd carelessly not hidden anyone.  The way you engineered it felt very real, because it gave me the impression that the Russians were guessing at a possible AT gun location and guessed wrong.  It worked for immersion.

I really like the Jagdpanzers because we don't see their use much in scenarios.  And, their loadout will be needed for the waves of enemy armor, as well as infantry.  Right now I've two Jagdpanzers working in concert with one another, one firing at infantry to slow them down and the other hunting armor.

While Marders might be more common historically, you are correct about their limited loadout.  You'd either have to increase their numbers considerably or go with some other additional armor.  I think the Jagdpanzers have a better survivability against waves of T-34s or even SU-76s than Mark IVs.

I found the "runaway" MG teams in the center were very effective, pretty much shredding my infantry before I had a chance to consider moving them back.  Not sure that is bad for the scenario unless you want the center German infantry to have a little more chance to give ground.

Just a few more observations.

Spoilers***************************

 

 

My luck with infantry AT weapons is pretty dismal so far.  In a crazy series of events on the right flank, the SU-76s finally got their courage up after losing only a few guns to the PAK front.  They started rushing the buildings were the FO is located.  I eased up the tank hunters and suddenly there were about 4 or 5 of the little buggers just about to overrun everything. 

My MG teams from the very far right had been slow to pull back, and suddenly they started getting rear hits on the SU-76s, causing them to start backing away from the threat to their exposed rear crew sections.  I had not intended this.

At the same time, I crawled the tank hunters towards a hedge where an SU-76 was arrogantly sitting on the other side.  They both fired their panzerfausts at the same SU-76 (yes, happens all the time, and there is no way to prevent this...arrrggghh) and promptly missed, but the explosions landed right around a second SU-76 that was behind the first.  That one started backing up in a panic.

The tank hunters - now deprived of their primary weapon of destruction - coolly went to Plan B and lobbed a grenade...right into the open exposed top of the SU-76.  Blammo!!!  Three crew casualties just like that.  The gun is still showing green but there isn't any crew to work it.  Crazy action.

The tank hunters' survival is in jeopardy now, because there is another SU-76 nearby, but I am hoping they can repeat their stellar throwing ability to knock out a second one.

In the meantime, I am trying to crawl the Panzerschreck team up to try and get some shots on the other SU-76s which are now scattering in all directions like roaches caught in the bathroom light at 2 AM.

Center has stabilized a little.  Left flank is almost completely wiped out now, as the remaining T-34s rushed forwards.  I only have one Jagdpanzer over there and I am trying to maneuver them into position to try for flank shots. 

Pretty wicked action, and I'm having a much tougher time at it because I was slow to start moving infantry back before they were hit by the high red tide.  :o

Heinrich505

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19 hours ago, Macisle said:

 

It would SURE be great to be able to program timed and/or triggered arty attacks in the Editor. While the AI can be pretty good with targets of opportunity during the game, the scenario designer gets one shot at the opening of the scenario for anything coordinated. That especially impacts the use of smoke. That heavily influenced the way the scenario opening evolved.

Another thing that this scenario brought home is how quickly 16 AI groups can be used up. I think I remember reading that BF was thinking of expanding that number. That would be AWESOME. As things stand, I'm barely able to get the coordination I want in the scenario. If I had more groups (and objective zones for triggers), I could make the AI much more effecive at taking terrain objectives. Right now, I have to mostly keep things at the company level for infantry. Platoon level would be a lot better for what the AI is up against here.

 

 

I agree with these two points exactelly...Hopefully we will se some improvements in these two areas in the not to far future...

what i have seen of this scenario so far you are doing a very good jobb with the AI...dealing with the limitations that currently exists.in the editor.

Whit somewhat larger scenarios it can be a bit tricky right now to get the AI to do what you want...The AI Groups gets quite large and there is a limited number of trigger options avaliable...

 

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Macisle,

  FINALLY!!!

 

okczdy.jpg

The rocket is the small dot on the left front fender as you look at the T-34.

a32reu.jpg

The Shreck guy actually fired his handgun at some nearby T-34 tank survivors from his first victim, which alerted his second victim, who then started to reverse madly.  The Shreck guy then remembered that he had this big bulky tube-like thing hanging over his shoulder that he should probably be firing at the large tracked steel box with a very big gun sticking out of it...so he calmly shouldered it and fired one shot...TREFFER!!!  His second kill.  The first one is off screen to the right.  He also did this solo as his assistant had been gunned down a minute ago by nearby enemy infantry.

Heinrich505

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1 hour ago, Heinrich505 said:

Macisle,

  I think the initial barrage was very well done.  I was worried that my ATG group would be blasted into oblivion before the battle even began, but the Russians were just a little off target and my guys survived.  I had one of the ammo team for a gun take a slight wound and I'd carelessly not hidden anyone.  The way you engineered it felt very real, because it gave me the impression that the Russians were guessing at a possible AT gun location and guessed wrong.  It worked for immersion.

I really like the Jagdpanzers because we don't see their use much in scenarios.  And, their loadout will be needed for the waves of enemy armor, as well as infantry.  Right now I've two Jagdpanzers working in concert with one another, one firing at infantry to slow them down and the other hunting armor.

While Marders might be more common historically, you are correct about their limited loadout.  You'd either have to increase their numbers considerably or go with some other additional armor.  I think the Jagdpanzers have a better survivability against waves of T-34s or even SU-76s than Mark IVs.

I found the "runaway" MG teams in the center were very effective, pretty much shredding my infantry before I had a chance to consider moving them back.  Not sure that is bad for the scenario unless you want the center German infantry to have a little more chance to give ground.

Just a few more observations.

Spoilers***************************

 

 

My luck with infantry AT weapons is pretty dismal so far.  In a crazy series of events on the right flank, the SU-76s finally got their courage up after losing only a few guns to the PAK front.  They started rushing the buildings were the FO is located.  I eased up the tank hunters and suddenly there were about 4 or 5 of the little buggers just about to overrun everything. 

My MG teams from the very far right had been slow to pull back, and suddenly they started getting rear hits on the SU-76s, causing them to start backing away from the threat to their exposed rear crew sections.  I had not intended this.

At the same time, I crawled the tank hunters towards a hedge where an SU-76 was arrogantly sitting on the other side.  They both fired their panzerfausts at the same SU-76 (yes, happens all the time, and there is no way to prevent this...arrrggghh) and promptly missed, but the explosions landed right around a second SU-76 that was behind the first.  That one started backing up in a panic.

The tank hunters - now deprived of their primary weapon of destruction - coolly went to Plan B and lobbed a grenade...right into the open exposed top of the SU-76.  Blammo!!!  Three crew casualties just like that.  The gun is still showing green but there isn't any crew to work it.  Crazy action.

The tank hunters' survival is in jeopardy now, because there is another SU-76 nearby, but I am hoping they can repeat their stellar throwing ability to knock out a second one.

In the meantime, I am trying to crawl the Panzerschreck team up to try and get some shots on the other SU-76s which are now scattering in all directions like roaches caught in the bathroom light at 2 AM.

Center has stabilized a little.  Left flank is almost completely wiped out now, as the remaining T-34s rushed forwards.  I only have one Jagdpanzer over there and I am trying to maneuver them into position to try for flank shots. 

Pretty wicked action, and I'm having a much tougher time at it because I was slow to start moving infantry back before they were hit by the high red tide.  :o

Heinrich505

Thanks for your continuing feedback and the juicy battle report, Heinrich505! I'm really enjoying it.

It sounds like you're getting the kind of intense action I want to give the player in this. Yeah, the fallback timing is tricky. After you get a bit further, I'll post about some of the things that have worked in my playtesting. I don't know for sure, but it seems like this scenario has a lot of replay potential, even if I were to put only one AI plan in. The player is spending a lot of time reacting to the AI and the results of micro-events in the game can force the player to change plans quickly. So, on one play-through, you might hold certain good positions for a long time and on another, a curveball might force you to quickly abandon them and fall back further than you expected. That happened to me on my last playtest using the version you are playing. The AI showed up in a place that looked like it might be in a position to slaughter any fallbacks in about 1-3 turns, so I popped smoke and dashed a full platoon a block to the rear. VERY glad I did, though I gave up some good real estate.

The left flank (and center in the beginning) will be a weighty tactical choice for the player. Due to the more vilage-like terrain, the player may find the initial ambush punishment he dishes out doesn't pay for his losses--or potentially being the victim of an overrun. It may well be better to hold fire, fall back and monitor the enemy until better terrain and/or more reinforcements can be put into play.

I really like the Jagdpanzers. The Marder thing was just me trying to second guess myself. Oh, but be careful. IIRC now, the SU-76's guns have better luck penetrating the frontal armor of the Jagdpanzers than the T-34 does.

Oh, I see you posted again. I'll read that before writing more later (gotta' get to work now).

 

35 minutes ago, RepsolCBR said:

I agree with these two points exactelly...Hopefully we will se some improvements in these two areas in the not to far future...

what i have seen of this scenario so far you are doing a very good jobb with the AI...dealing with the limitations that currently exists.in the editor.

Whit somewhat larger scenarios it can be a bit tricky right now to get the AI to do what you want...The AI Groups gets quite large and there is a limited number of trigger options avaliable...

 

Thanks for the compliment on the AI plan, RepsolCBR! There is definitely room for improvement, but I've learned a lot by doing this scenario and will work to make what I have better. I'll be tweaking things to integrate the new playtest feedback and adapt it to new terrain objectives. I just finished a first pass at painting them in the Editor, but don't have time to post anything about it until after work.

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13 minutes ago, Heinrich505 said:

Macisle,

  FINALLY!!!

 

okczdy.jpg

The rocket is the small dot on the left front fender as you look at the T-34.

a32reu.jpg

The Shreck guy actually fired his handgun at some nearby T-34 tank survivors from his first victim, which alerted his second victim, who then started to reverse madly.  The Shreck guy then remembered that he had this big bulky tube-like thing hanging over his shoulder that he should probably be firing at the large tracked steel box with a very big gun sticking out of it...so he calmly shouldered it and fired one shot...TREFFER!!!  His second kill.  The first one is off screen to the right.  He also did this solo as his assistant had been gunned down a minute ago by nearby enemy infantry.

Heinrich505

Nice work, Heinrich505! Let 'em have it!

Oh, BTW, what are your reinforcement ATGs doing?

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I unloaded two near the ammo dump, figuring the enemy tanks coming in from the left flank would break through.  They have not seen action yet.

I tried to unload one on the right flank, but I unloaded him too close to a building and the gunners are now pushing it around inside the doggone building.  Had they unloaded it properly, they would have blasted the SU-76 that rushed down the street and stopped in the nearby intersection to blow up my center Jagdpanzer.  Arrgghh.

 

The Jagdpanzer on the left flank is pretty much the only unit I have left there.  He is trying to slowly whittle down the mass of T-34s.  An air attack just waxed one of the T-34s for him.  It was beautiful.

The damned SU-76s pushed through my right flank, and several are running rampant in the city streets behind everyone.  They just shot up my Jagdpanzer that was holding the center down, because they had an easy flank shot on him down the street.

Another Jagdpanzer got blasted by the SU-76s before they broke through on the right.  That was bad luck for sure.  One got him with two shots to the front and blew him up.

My other Jagdpanzer now has his rear to the marauding SU-76s but that will have to remain a cliff hanger as I've got to stop for now.  He might have time to turn around and fire on the SU-76 as the Russians haven't seen him yet.

The scene was utter chaos on the right flank when the SU-76s rushed around the buildings like rats on a feeding frenzy.  Several were knocked out by grenades and small arms fire.  Two got blown up by the Shreck guy before he lost his nerve and ran across the street.  The one squad didn't use the demo charge as they gunned down the crew from an SU-76.  It was carnage and mayhem.   :D

 

Heinrich505 

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Yikes! 2 TDs down? Those last two are worth their weight in gold for sure.

Yeah, those SU-76s are made of glass and very vulnerable to small arms, but their guns seem to have both good AP penetration and anti-infantry HE power. I've been surprised at some of the casualties they've caused in building blocks when they manage to get off a shot or two. They tend to spread the love across multiple actons spots and teams.

That's good news on the stuka support, though! I love those tank-buster models. They can be very effective. CM really models a variety of outcomes beautifully. Some plays, the stuka takes out multiple tanks. Other times, just an AC. Others, it wastes all its ammo on a disabled SU-76 at the enemy map edge. And still others, it attacks for awhile, goes away for an hour...and then comes back!

Glad to hear you are enjoying the SU-76 vs infantry smash up. The on-map ATGs are designed to take out the first wave of SU-76s and then fall prey to arty. The follow-up SU-76s provide a flanking conundrum for the player on the right.

Here's hoping your ditzy ATG gets its act together before fate deals it a bad hand. I think you might have set up the others near a location that I like. My last playtest, the ATGs arrived very late and the North Group armor was already in the Bridgehead. I had just enough time to unload the ATGs as a group to defend the Rail area as a "pak front." I think they finished setting up with less than a minute before having T-34s in their LOS.

Here are some screenies of that as they opened up:

29606473011_19ebf222d6_b.jpg

 

Same moment from the lead tank's perspective:


29576290042_833fed7c8b_b.jpg

They did a good job, knocking out a number of tanks and buying time for me to send a TD over to help. I lost two in the exchange and the third spend a lot of time beating up infantry. At the moment of contact, all my TDs were tied up supporting infantry on the right and center flanks. Due to the TDs being needed elsewhere and very late arrival of the ATGs, I had pulled back the whole left plank platoon and just let the North Group approach unapposed until that point.

The playtest before that, reinforcements had arrived early and I had set up a defense on the actual objective line.

Thanks, again. Keep those reports coming!

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Heinrich505,

If/when you have time, can you post an overhead shot of the current situation with icons on and give me the time on the clock when the picture is taken? That would be a big help to use in thinking about AI plan tweaks.

Also, can you give me any intel on the status of enemy infantry on the far right? I'm especially interested in the SMG troops that showed up close to your at-start HMG positions after the enemy smoke cleared in the beginning. Did you shatter them? Have they regrouped and put any pressure on you? Are they lost in the FOW for the moment?

Thanks very much.

Edited by Macisle
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You got it.

qoj510.jpg

The clock for time in the compass shows 9:50 AM.

The game clock shows that I've played 1 hour and 10 minutes into the game and counting down.

On the far right flank, my MG teams and the two HQ units stayed on point after the smoke and ripped the advancing Soviets pretty well.  I didn't get any intel as to their make-up.  However, the Russians managed to rally before I pulled back, and they forced my guys to back off.  I had already retreated the survivors of the ATG position, and I moved them back right into the shells of an artillery barrage.  One guy made it out.

The MG teams were slowly moving back, so they escaped any artillery for now, but they found themselves flanked by the SU-76 rush, and all they could do was turn and fire at the rear of the SU-76s, which really messed them up.  They were backing around and trying to find cover.  This meant that whatever survivors existed from the Soviet infantry on the far right, they were able to get into the buildings and they will probably mess up my surviving MGs pretty good.

I have been able to resupply three Shreck teams from the ammo dump.  They are covering the center, more or less.  Their morale is pretty bad though.

It appears that I probably have my AT guns set up to cover the left flank right about where you did yours as well.  The non-set-up one is the one bottom center that is closest to one of the two SU-76s that are playfully cavorting behind my doggone lines, hidden by the infantry icon and the truck icon with an MG close by. 

Hope this helps.

Heinrich505

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1 hour ago, Heinrich505 said:

You got it.

qoj510.jpg

The clock for time in the compass shows 9:50 AM.

The game clock shows that I've played 1 hour and 10 minutes into the game and counting down.

On the far right flank, my MG teams and the two HQ units stayed on point after the smoke and ripped the advancing Soviets pretty well.  I didn't get any intel as to their make-up.  However, the Russians managed to rally before I pulled back, and they forced my guys to back off.  I had already retreated the survivors of the ATG position, and I moved them back right into the shells of an artillery barrage.  One guy made it out.

The MG teams were slowly moving back, so they escaped any artillery for now, but they found themselves flanked by the SU-76 rush, and all they could do was turn and fire at the rear of the SU-76s, which really messed them up.  They were backing around and trying to find cover.  This meant that whatever survivors existed from the Soviet infantry on the far right, they were able to get into the buildings and they will probably mess up my surviving MGs pretty good.

I have been able to resupply three Shreck teams from the ammo dump.  They are covering the center, more or less.  Their morale is pretty bad though.

It appears that I probably have my AT guns set up to cover the left flank right about where you did yours as well.  The non-set-up one is the one bottom center that is closest to one of the two SU-76s that are playfully cavorting behind my doggone lines, hidden by the infantry icon and the truck icon with an MG close by. 

Hope this helps.

Heinrich505

Thanks, Heinrich505. That is very helpful.

If it's not too much trouble, would it be possible to get a dropbox file of this turn? I'd like to analyze the current status of the AI's forces in detail. If you're too busy, no worries. If you can, just PM me the link.

Good luck with those marauding SU-76s!  My HMGs have yet to be behind them in playtesting, so that is an interesting dynamic. -Something for me to think about.

I'll be more careful about not giving away any intel. Sorry about IDing that group of infantry (probably shouldn't have posted the ATG pics yet either).

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Here is a first pass at dividing up the current single large terrain objective into ten smaller ones in the Editor. I've also weighted the numbers a bit for easier/more valuable real estate. Total points in the game have been increased from the current 1,000 to 1,500 with 750 for terrain objectives and 750 for enemy casualties.

29415854370_73942f77d8_z.jpg

 

This would allow me to cover what I see as the main areas and reserve 5 slots for triggers. However, the zones may be hard for players make out clearly in game. See the following image:

29080341954_d031866a05_c.jpg

 

And a close up of one of the sections:

29706695375_6ba612587b_b.jpg

As you can see, if a street crosses an objective that extends out on both sides of the street, it takes more work to understand the total shape. If I go with this, I would include a tactical map update to show the player the outlines (using a second insert map).

What do folks think? I could give up on triggers and make smaller areas that don't cross streets. I'd like to have the trigger options, though.

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