Why is the M1A2 SEP V3 so slow? Abrams tankers?

[John Kettler]

Even on Fast, it isn't. Instead, it trundles around somewhat ponderously, rather than thundering across the steppe. Does this monster now have so much armor that its speed has been badly compromised? Would like to know what those who've served/are serving on the M1A2 SEP V2 think of in-game speed vs what they've experienced themselves on good tank ground. To me, something seems badly off with the CMBS Abrams, but I could well be wrong, too. Would someone who knows from direct experience what the performance should be please enlighten me?

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited August 23, 2016 by John Kettler

[Michael Emrys]

3 hours ago, John Kettler said:

Even on Fast, it isn't. Instead, it trundles around somewhat ponderously, rather than thundering across the steppe.

I've been kind of wondering about this as well lately. Which is to say that while it moves smartly, it doesn't seem appreciably faster than the Bradleys. Have the orders come down from on high to soft pedal it a little, or is it something like John says about it putting on weight like the rest of us as we get older?

Michael

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

Abrams go like, 25-30 MPH topped out off road, maybe 40 MPH on a good surface.  In practice we rarely approached either of those speeds because in practice, AT systems fly faster than you drive, so most tanking is conducted at something approaching a an aggressive creep.  

Basically this is what I'd call "fast" IRL
 

There's also a lot of stress you put on a tank when you go faster (think of the centrifugal forces on the upper run of the track, if you're going fast enough it's actually lifting off of the rollers and pulling) too.  So just in general, fast is more aggressive murderroll than sprint.  

[John Kettler]

panzersaurkrautwerfer,

Other than being speechless at how slow Fast is for the real M1A2 SEP V2, many thanks! Looks to me like BFC got it dead on, no matter how counterintuitive this may appear in the game.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Vergeltungswaffe]

I'll never forget being at an airshow many years ago and seeing a demo of the M1 right when it was entering service.

They swanned around and it looked really maneuverable, but they ended with a high speed dash, and it looked every bit of 50mph to me, but a track broke and it was all bad.

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

6 hours ago, John Kettler said:

panzersaurkrautwerfer,

Other than being speechless at how slow Fast is for the real M1A2 SEP V2, many thanks! Looks to me like BFC got it dead on, no matter how counterintuitive this may appear in the game.

Regards,

John Kettler

It can GO a lot faster.  It's just not driven much faster for a variety of reasons:

1. It's not especially "safe."  There's the stuff Vergeltungswaffe brought up in terms of shedding the entire track, but there's also flinging track pads which can, and has killed people.  You can totally roll a tank over too which is always good times too.

2. When moving tanks you want to keep in formation/some sort of cohesion.  If everyone is going as fast as possible, you lose coherence and command pretty quickly.  A slower, more deliberate pace keeps it as a tank platoon vs four tanks winging across the battlefield.

3. As I pointed out in my first post, no tank can outrun a sabot.  If you're crashing ahead full speed, generally you are less aware, more obvious, and less able to return fire.  A deliberate 20-25 MPH clip will cover a lot of battlefield quickly, in a way that is much more tactical than the silly tank Olympic rooster tail drifting nonsense.  


There's a saying I'm sure everyone has heard, but it's smooth is fast, fast is smooth.  The imposed friction by moving automotive fast quickly derails moving tactically fast.  Deliberate smart movement will get you where you need to go a lot faster than having to re consolidate every terrain feature, or blundering into engagement areas unaware.   

I feel fast best represents this when you're dealing with tanks, it's a command to go to a place incoming fire or no, faster than normal, but slower than stupid.  

[Battlefront.com]

This is one of the key arguments I've made about why RealTime is not the huge problem WeGoers make it out to be.  I move my stuff slow and smooth, with lots of time off inbetween moves to evaluate what to do next.  I probably move my units way less and far more conservatively than WeGoers do.  Yet I'm guessing that using RT tactics against an experienced WeGoer would probably not go as well because the WeGoer would likely gain an advantage from micromanaging.  Different play styles are required for the two modes, that's for sure.

Steve

[Los]

Rule of thumb in actual combat:

 

You have the whole rest of your life to get from point A to point B.

[Kinophile]

On 23/08/2016 at 11:03 PM, Battlefront.com said:

This is one of the key arguments I've made about why RealTime is not the huge problem WeGoers make it out to be.  I move my stuff slow and smooth, with lots of time off inbetween moves to evaluate what to do next.  I probably move my units way less and far more conservatively than WeGoers do.  Yet I'm guessing that using RT tactics against an experienced WeGoer would probably not go as well because the WeGoer would likely gain an advantage from micromanaging.  Different play styles are required for the two modes, that's for sure.

Steve

This experience s a hard lesson I learned early on in RT games. Just cos it's real time doesn't mean you NEED to go fast. 

I think a lot of non-military types such as myself grew up accustomed to the C&C vision of tank masses racing through the frame, ATGMs pinging off. 

I believe my first RT game resulted in a 50% casualty rate within 10 mins,  as US v RUS. My own little embarrassing Somme... These days I'm much more deliberate, especially as RUS. There's usually a lot of points to be had (and denied) by simply keeping the bulk of your force alive and not engaged. 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by kinophile

[John Kettler]

kinophile,

In my very first quick testing of the water vs AI in WeGo, I lost ~ 40% of my Russian force in two minutes.  So overwhelming and rapid was the carnage at the hands of running and gunning Abrams tanks and Bradleys of some sort that I found myself wondering whether I'd wasted my money on an unplayable by me game. Pre-ordered, so I had no Demo to check out. Doubt I will ever RT any CM games, but more power to those who can. Likewise to those who wish to use a regiment in WeGo. Hurts to so much as think about that, considering a BTG has so far been beyond my competence. 

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited August 29, 2016 by John Kettler

[John Kettler]

panzersaurkrautwerfer,

It may be the mic's handling of what it picks up, but I'm surprised at the basso rutching, for want of a better word, sound the 120 mm makes when it fires. Given the velocities involved, I'd expect something more akin to a sharp crack. I HATE that high pitched sound Hollywood always seems to use for tank cannon sound. Again, many thanks for a valuable education on Abrams movement speeds IRL!

Regards,

John Kettler