Re-Man...... Man

[Kraquin]

Apologies if this has been discussed before. I did search but didn't find a specific answer to my question.

On several occasions I have had crew members of various vehicles injured while in the vicinity there might be a complete crew of a destroyed vehicle. 

I would have thought you could re-man the personnel depleted vehicle with a crew from a destroyed vehicle of the same type.

Is this not an available capability or am I doing it wrong?

 

thanks

[Sublime]

Tanks cannot be remanned nor HTs unless its that vehicles original crew and the vehicle isnt destroyed.You can put teams into half tracks to use the gunners mount though Im pretty sure noone will drive it if its not theirs. Jeeps are wide open basically.

[A Canadian Cat]

The restriction against swapping crews of tanks is long standing and by design.  Basically it is meant to stop gamey moves on our part and to reflect that normally if a crew get un horsed they withdraw to the rear to get a new tank for a future battle.  Normally they would not hang around the front in case they are needed to replace crew casulties in other vehicles.  That's the decision BFC have made at the beginning of their work on CM

[Bulletpoint]

A similar thing happens with AT guns - if you order the crew to leave the gun, they can't go back and re-man it later. This is also by design.

[Blazing 88's]

17 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

A similar thing happens with AT guns - if you order the crew to leave the gun, they can't go back and re-man it later. This is also by design.

However, you can "bail out" a tank crew so as to scout ahead on foot.  After which, you can re-mount that tank and kill the quarry you found scouting on foot.  Just adding this as some might not be aware of this being possible.

[StieliAlpha]

On 24. Juni 2016 at 8:04 PM, IanL said:

The restriction against swapping crews of tanks is long standing and by design.  Basically it is meant to stop gamey moves on our part and to reflect that normally if a crew get un horsed they withdraw to the rear to get a new tank for a future battle.  Normally they would not hang around the front in case they are needed to replace crew casulties in other vehicles.  That's the decision BFC have made at the beginning of their work on CM

I also would think, that "re-manning" is highly unrealistic. I can't believe that somebody, who was shot out of his tank, would merrily walk around and seize another one.

That sounds too much like a MMPRPG, where you re-spawn after five sec's.

Edited June 29, 2016 by StieliAlpha

[Michael Emrys]

1 hour ago, StieliAlpha said:

I also would think, that "re-manning" is highly unrealistic. I can't believe that somebody, who was shot out of his tank, would merrily walk around and seize another one.

I think that as far as the average case, that is absolutely true. That said, in the case of commanders (of platoons or larger units), if their original tank was rendered ineffective, they would sometimes move over to a new  one, possibly taking their original crew with them. This could not always be done or be effective. For instance, their original command tank may have had comms equipment that the new tank lacks and that would severely compromise the commander's effectiveness in controlling his force.

Michael

[A Canadian Cat]

1 hour ago, Michael Emrys said:

I think that as far as the average case, that is absolutely true. That said, in the case of commanders (of platoons or larger units), if their original tank was rendered ineffective, they would sometimes move over to a new  one, possibly taking their original crew with them.

Indeed.  I have a few regular players where we have a house rule that AFV crews who are unhorsed move to safety in the rear.  The one exception we have is HQ units can mount a radio equipped vehicle to take command of their platoon again.  So, we cannot move the HQ into another tank but we can have them be passengers in a radio equipped HT and then they can bring their platoon (or company) back in the C2.

[Kraquin]

4 hours ago, StieliAlpha said:

I also would think, that "re-manning" is highly unrealistic. I can't believe that somebody, who was shot out of his tank, would merrily walk around and seize another one.

That sounds too much like a MMPRPG, where you re-spawn after five sec's.

I retired from the military and don't think it's unrealistic........ that's why I asked the question

Edited June 29, 2016 by Kraquin

[DasMorbo]

There are dozens of instances in WWII where tank crews left their tanks in panic while it was still mobile. Later they or other crews would return and drive it off to safety, very much to the dismay of their enemies who thought the tank out of action.

[Michael Emrys]

4 hours ago, IanL said:

Indeed.  I have a few regular players where we have a house rule that AFV crews who are unhorsed move to safety in the rear.  The one exception we have is HQ units can mount a radio equipped vehicle to take command of their platoon again.  So, we cannot move the HQ into another tank but we can have them be passengers in a radio equipped HT and then they can bring their platoon (or company) back in the C2.

That sounds to me like an excellent house rule.

Michael

[Anthony P.]

3 hours ago, Kraquin said:

I retired from the military and don't think it's unrealistic........ that's why I asked the question

Were you an AFV crewmember? Do you have first hand experience with actually jumping into a new AFV minutes after your old one was shot from underneath you?

[StieliAlpha]

16 hours ago, DasMorbo said:

There are dozens of instances in WWII where tank crews left their tanks in panic while it was still mobile. Later they or other crews would return and drive it off to safety, very much to the dismay of their enemies who thought the tank out of action.

Dozens? In a 6 year war. With millions of casualties. Tens of thousands destroyed tanks.

I don't think that is statically relevant.

Probaly not worth a minute of programming.

[StieliAlpha]

2 minutes ago, StieliAlpha said:

Dozens? In a 6 year war. With millions of casualties. Tens of thousands destroyed tanks.

I don't think that is statically relevant.

Probaly not worth a minute of programming.

 

16 hours ago, DasMorbo said:

There are dozens of instances in WWII where tank crews left their tanks in panic while it was still mobile. Later they or other crews would return and drive it off to safety, very much to the dismay of their enemies who thought the tank out of action.

And, by the way, re-manning the own tank is (at least in RT) possible. My guys did that once.

[Kraquin]

20 hours ago, Anthony P. said:

Were you an AFV crewmember? Do you have first hand experience with actually jumping into a new AFV minutes after your old one was shot from underneath you?

No I was not in an AFV, I retired from the Navy and rode ships. There's no place to go in that environment. If you are knowledgeable and capable you step in where others have fallen in combat. Also, if forced to abandon your ship you augment the unit that picks you up.

Regardless you are assuming worst case.

Suppose on the way to the battle your vehicle becomes unusable and there is for whatever reason an abandoned vehicle nearby that is usable.  Would you abandon the fight?

Maybe it's just perspective but to me a tank is a tool like a rifle. If my rifle broke I'd find another one.

[Blazing 88's]

7 hours ago, StieliAlpha said:

 

And, by the way, re-manning the own tank is (at least in RT) possible. My guys did that once.

Yes it is possible (see my above post) with all CM.  During the war German units always did this when they were near, but not knowing where, the enemy was located (Panzer Aces I, II, III has lots of examples).  I would assume the allies did this as well??

Edited June 30, 2016 by Blazing 88's

[user1000]

On 6/25/2016 at 2:23 AM, Bulletpoint said:

A similar thing happens with AT guns - if you order the crew to leave the gun, they can't go back and re-man it later. This is also by design.

I think that is really stupid..

[DasMorbo]

On 1.7.2016 at 7:00 AM, user1000 said:

I think that is really stupid..

Yeah, I cursed about the inability to re-man Anti-Tank Guns many a time. Especially when you see spotting rounds, your AT Gun has no foxholes and you are perfectly aware they gonna hit your ATG. You can do a damn about saving the crew. In real life the only sensible thing would be to get into cover, wait out the strike and return to the gun-position to see if it is still serviceable.

On 30.6.2016 at 5:59 PM, StieliAlpha said:

Dozens? In a 6 year war. With millions of casualties. Tens of thousands destroyed tanks.

I don't think that is statically relevant.

Probaly not worth a minute of programming.

Duh. Dozens I heard of. Tanks are among the most valuable battlefield assets, so any Army goes to great lengths to keep as many aviable as possible. 

[Anthony P.]

Tanks are way cheaper to replace than the crew, there's no reason to encourage crews to salvage others tanks in the middle of a battle. If a tank was abandoned, the enemy would keep shooting at it until it went up in flames if they could. So if a tank has been very recently abandoned despite not burning, there's a fair chance it's bl**dy dangerous to be inside it for some reason, so why would you want to jump in it, especially when you're fairly scared after your own tank's been destroyed? If it's their own abandoned tank, at least they'll have a fairly good idea of the state of the tank, and whether or not re-manning it would be directly dangerous to them.

Edited July 2, 2016 by Anthony P.

[Abbasid111]

Tank all shot up? Maybe a platoon, troop or company commander will appropriate the closest tank in their unit and continue the fight...if they aren't wounded themselves. Otherwise hunker down to escape the flying lead, tend to the wounded and get the hell to the rear

[StieliAlpha]

4 hours ago, DasMorbo said:

 

Duh. Dozens I heard of. Tanks are among the most valuable battlefield assets, so any Army goes to great lengths to keep as many aviable as possible. 

Some math: Russia lost about 90'000 tanks in the war, Germany 25'000. (Numbers come from a 5 minute research. If anybody has better numbers, please correct me.)

I.e., you would need 75 dozen, resp 20 dozen to make good 1%.

Or 15 dozen per year for Russia and 4 dozen per year for Germany.

And documented, please. Not "heard of".

No, I don't buy that "re-manning" was a relevant practice.

 

Edited July 2, 2016 by StieliAlpha

[DasMorbo]

3 hours ago, StieliAlpha said:

And documented, please. Not "heard of".

No, I don't buy that "re-manning" was a relevant practice.

 

You didn't read my post properly. I meant "I heard of" because that is what I wanted to say. It is very unlikely that, even though I read into the topic for a good 20 years, I know more than 1 percent of these cases. To say iI know all cases "documented" would be a gross overstatement.

In an Army in which most Armoured Divisions operated in understrenght most of the time, and in which divisional staff on occasion bribed factory managers to get resupply (German Army on the Eastern Front and generally late in the war) salvaging as much as possible was very much an vital practice.

 

[StieliAlpha]

On 3. Juli 2016 at 1:39 AM, DasMorbo said:

You didn't read my post properly. I meant "I heard of" because that is what I wanted to say. It is very unlikely that, even though I read into the topic for a good 20 years, I know more than 1 percent of these cases. To say iI know all cases "documented" would be a gross overstatement.

In an Army in which most Armoured Divisions operated in understrenght most of the time, and in which divisional staff on occasion bribed factory managers to get resupply (German Army on the Eastern Front and generally late in the war) salvaging as much as possible was very much an vital practice.

 

A long time ago, I read a story about a German PAK operator. The last one of his crew. According to the tale, he single handedly killed 20 or so Russian tanks.

How did the poster in Mulder's office say? "I want to believe!"

But is it worth to be in the game?

Perhaps yes, as the one in a million chance.

[Lille Fiskerby]

On 18 July 1944 Lt. Gorman Rammed !! a German King Tiger Tank, it didnt KO it so he ran back to "borrow" a Firefly and went back to destroy the Tiger would be

interesting to change tanks in Combat Mission.

[StieliAlpha]

1 hour ago, Lille Fiskerby said:

On 18 July 1944 Lt. Gorman Rammed !! a German King Tiger Tank, it didnt KO it so he ran back to "borrow" a Firefly and went back to destroy the Tiger would be

interesting to change tanks in Combat Mission.

Yes, I know that story, too.

Question is: Do you think it is worth to be portrayed in a micro-tactical war game? I think not, because it was just not "normal". My preference is: Let BFC get all "normal" things straight, and then take cared about the "one in a million" stuff.

Hm, perhaps you want to refer to GMT's "Combat Commander" board game. They have a "Hero" Counter in some scenarios, for just such deeds. Whenever I use those heros, I feel Superman in my neck.