Do Italians have Scout Teams?

[Ivan Zaitzev]

Maybe a strange question, but I'm thinking about buying CMFI mainly for the Italian troops, even more now that there is an Italian units pack coming in the future. I can't check the Italian OOB in the Demo and since the Italians are so different than other nationalities, maybe you guys can answer y question.

Thanks.

[MOS:96B2P]

Yes they have the three man scout team.  In addition they also have the Blackshirt Scout team.

 

[MOS:96B2P]

@Ivan Zaitzev Here is an Italian Blackshirt three man scout team.

[Ivan Zaitzev]

Thank you MOS! I wasn't aware there where blackshirt units too. Those pics are a great help.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Ivan Zaitzev

[MOS:96B2P]

12 hours ago, Ivan Zaitzev said:

Thank you MOS! I wasn't aware there where blackshirt units too. Those pics are a great help.

You are welcome.  Now just buy CMFI along with the Gustav line module.   A lot of cool stuff in this one.  In fact as money allows buy all the CM titles.        

[DougPhresh]

Italian Recon Platoons also have full size (8?) scout squads. Can anyone explain their role?

[Sublime]

Probably just another bloated italian force. Their regular squads as they are ALREADY split. So I assume the recon platoon scouts have a bit more punch and firepower. Honestly there seems to be several 'qb'units that every country across the board seems to get - scouts, lmg, fo, breach team, sniper team. Then you have these forces mirrored in name in the TO&E but with bigger forces. My theory is when you buy them as a formation youre getting what the formation really had whilst buying the teams may be slightly a historical its still equipment that would have been around but grants more granular control.

[DougPhresh]

So if I have an Italian company, would it be better to attach scout teams to the platoons, or try to use that scout platoon? Keep the scout platoon but swap out squads for teams?

[kohlenklau]

@Ivan Zaitzev  Buy the CMFI with the GL module and you can also download the Bulge Mod and the Africa Mod. More bang for your buck!

..and a second set of Ginsu steak knives if you call before midnight.

[Erwin]

The question I have always puzzled over is whether "scout" unit means anything.  In the game it feels like "scouts" are basically a form of infantry that behaves exactly like infantry.  So, why bother selecting scouts - just use infantry units. 

My thought was that scouts had special training (along with engineers, snipers, and other specialized units) so all such units should be at least one experience level higher than the other "line" units in order to function better.

Have always considered it realistic to have regular troops and (say) Crack or even Elite Snipers or similar.  (It's also a lot of fun as well.)

[Michael Emrys]

On June 3, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Erwin said:

In the game it feels like "scouts" are basically a form of infantry that behaves exactly like infantry.

Well, maybe not quite like infantry. I haven't checked in other armies, but in the US army they always have binoculars and a couple of satchel charges. Oddly enough they don't have radios. The demos seem a little inappropriate for scouting, unless they are meant to do both scouting and a little sabotage. I'd gladly trade the demos for a radio.

Michael

[womble]

On 6/2/2016 at 0:22 AM, Sublime said:

... I assume the recon platoon scouts have a bit more punch and firepower...

Not really. The scouts still have the sub-calibre bolt action rifles, and their larger headcount means they're more easily spotted. At close range any SMG-heavy or at any range semi-auto full-calibre rifle-armed element will probably be superior, even a two man US scout team split off from a squad (they'll probably have both rifles firing, but an 8 man scout team might only have 3 or 4, and the RoF and projectile weight advantages of the Garand make up for at least that much deficiency of odds).

[Sublime]

Fair nuff. More headcount and thats it. Emrys ive always assumed the demos were for obstructions or summat but you.re right I think a walky talky would be more appropriate.

Now Erwin I think the scouts basically act like infantry because in real life they probably get more training and are part of the organizationnas dedicated scouts for more true scouting/recon than the normal break off two men or 3 man teams you buy to investigate stuff on maps.that are often 500x1km or 500x500 etc.

Often the dedicated recon troops have other equipment such as mg jeeps etc etc.

[Michael Emrys]

4 minutes ago, Sublime said:

...ive always assumed the demos were for obstructions or summat...

Me too. But blowing up things kind of detracts from the stealth aspects of scouting.

5 minutes ago, Sublime said:

Often the dedicated recon troops have other equipment such as mg jeeps etc etc.

Right, just as they are modeled as Mech cavalry. The scout teams as portrayed in the game strike me as curiously anomalous, as if they were designed to fill a perceived gap in gameplay between proper recon elements and breaching teams before those were added to the game. Don't get me wrong, I like the scout teams, but not so much as scouts as a vanguard for an offensive action.

What I would like for scouts might be a team with some extra competency—like veteran or crack experience rating and at least a +1 leadership—equipped with binoculars and radio. Their job would be to scout, observe, and report. They would also be authorized to call in artillery and air strikes. Hmmm, I just realized that I seem to be describing FO teams as they already exist.

Michael

[womble]

10 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

Me too. But blowing up things kind of detracts from the stealth aspects of scouting.

Right, just as they are modeled as Mech cavalry. The scout teams as portrayed in the game strike me as curiously anomalous, as if they were designed to fill a perceived gap in gameplay between proper recon elements and breaching teams before those were added to the game. Don't get me wrong, I like the scout teams, but not so much as scouts as a vanguard for an offensive action.

What I would like for scouts might be a team with some extra competency—like veteran or crack experience rating and at least a +1 leadership—equipped with binoculars and radio. Their job would be to scout, observe, and report. They would also be authorized to call in artillery and air strikes. Hmmm, I just realized that I seem to be describing FO teams as they already exist.

Michael

Aye. I don't imagine I'm the only one that buys scout teams more for their SMGs than for their binos, in the QB setting. FO teams carry additional expense above and beyond their equipment, I think, being faster at calling in support.

[Erwin]

15 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

What I would like for scouts might be a team with some extra competency—like veteran or crack experience rating and at least a +1 leadership—equipped with binoculars and radio. Their job would be to scout, observe, and report.

 

Exactly that.  If you want to have specialized units in a game to do a particular job then they should be appreciably and noticeably better at that function than the other units.  Currently, recon, engineers (minus the charges), snipers etc are interchangeable.  CM2 factors are often too subtle to notice any difference outside of doing tests.  Playing a scenario where the specialized units actually function noticeably better at their specialty makes the experience much better.  Designers who do this would benefit all the CM2 products not just CMFI.

[DougPhresh]

Do the Italian scout squads have more SMGs than rifle squads? I know Guastatori are much better equipped than MSVN or regular infantry.

It would be also nice if the Italian scout platoon could split squads. I doubt the Italians would send 8 guys to probe ahead rather than breaking down into teams.

Edited June 5, 2016 by DougPhresh

[Sublime]

If you chuckle when your pbem oppo picks italian then you find its a guastatori uniform on dead enemy its a "o sh*t i may have run into an experten" I find a lot of good opponents dont akways buy the absolute best bang for your buck force picksnrather tryng something new or different. Whilst many wil write these players off its often a mistake - if someones becomes bored of pbem combat with good weapons because they win so often then theyre more than capable of being very nasty with subpar weapons or armies. That being said the best the Italians got will never be close to what the best Jerrys got.

Probably like flying a mustang over Germany in early 45. Most kills were probably easy. Then you d run into some guy with 280 kills.  Ugh. One can only imagine.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Sublime

[DLaurier]

yes