Targetting "tentative contact" icons

[womble]

So I spotted something this evening I didn't know you could do. If there is a "tentative contact" icon at a location where a unit that can "see" (?sense?) that contact, can draw LOS to, you can click a Target order on that icon, and give an Area Target (or Briefly or Light) to the AS where that icon has been identified as being. It's definitely the icon that lets you because it's possible to pick a POV which puts the icon way above the ground, or in front of terrain that's definitely in defilade. Hovering the mouse over the icon will give you the targeting status for "where you noticed the tentative contact", such as "Reverse slope - No aim point", the range, and hull-down status relative to that point. Somehow, the icon also can be partially targetable; I've got one now where the left side (from the POV of the unit that has the contact) is "Reverse Slope" but the right side is targetable...

Are we supposed to be able to do this? Am I the only doofus who didn't realise you could? Is it new? They definitely shoot at the ordered location, and it's not like it lets you draw a target line to somewhere you otherwise wouldn't. It just makes picking the right AS to aim at to chase that elusive hedge-ducker-down-behind easier.

[The Steppenwulf]

This a very interesting game-play point. Can't believe that I also (with some embarrassment) have overlooked this. Thanks for pointing it out! 

[[MyIS] Buffpuff]

5 hours ago, womble said:

So I spotted something this evening I didn't know you could do. If there is a "tentative contact" icon at a location where a unit that can "see" (?sense?) that contact, can draw LOS to, you can click a Target order on that icon, and give an Area Target (or Briefly or Light) to the AS where that icon has been identified as being. It's definitely the icon that lets you because it's possible to pick a POV which puts the icon way above the ground, or in front of terrain that's definitely in defilade. Hovering the mouse over the icon will give you the targeting status for "where you noticed the tentative contact", such as "Reverse slope - No aim point", the range, and hull-down status relative to that point. Somehow, the icon also can be partially targetable; I've got one now where the left side (from the POV of the unit that has the contact) is "Reverse Slope" but the right side is targetable...

Are we supposed to be able to do this? Am I the only doofus who didn't realise you could? Is it new? They definitely shoot at the ordered location, and it's not like it lets you draw a target line to somewhere you otherwise wouldn't. It just makes picking the right AS to aim at to chase that elusive hedge-ducker-down-behind easier.

Going to have to try this tomorrow. Is this a FB thing only or does it apply on all titles? 

[Michael Emrys]

3 hours ago, [MyIS] Buffpuff said:

Is this a FB thing only or does it apply on all titles?

Going for now on the assumption that what womble is reporting is real, I think it must be new, for I have tried to do this in previous titles with no success. Worth a try.

Michael

[Bulletpoint]

Is there any difference from just targeting the square under the icon?

[MOS:96B2P]

Well ............. I think I was able to recreate this in CMFI v1.20.  

First if you click on one of your friendly units, in the orders phase, it will display the OpFor contacts and tentative contacts that friendly unit is aware of. 

Then if you use one of the targeting commands and move the targeting line to the different tentative contacts and use some patience you may eventually be able to area target one of those tentative contacts.  The friendly unit must have LOF to the action spot so it can take some playing around to find one that works.  Maybe why this has not been noticed before (At least I have not noticed it).  

Good job womble!! Maybe we should call this one the womble targeting tactic.  Screenshots below.

  

[nik mond]

I think I've been doing this for quite some time. The natural spread of the bullets, or projectiles of any caliber might get lucky and strike a hit on whatever is making that sound contact. That icon is usually not directly located on top of the enemy, but they are nearby.so area attacking tiles in that vicinity can score with a bit of luck. One example at close range are flame throwers. I had an ft team 35m from a contact icon separated by a mound and slight rise in elevation. I targeted the flamers where they were allowed to hit next to the icon. What's unique about flame throwers is they strike with a very wide spread across a couple tiles. You could hear the enemy getting hit in this case.

[Erwin]

Way back in CMA days it was essential to area target tentative contacts as when playing the Russians one often heard the Taliban, but there was no visual until they were on top of your units and it was too late.

[womble]

5 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Is there any difference from just targeting the square under the icon?

No. It's just a lot easier to be sure you're getting the right square.

[womble]

3 hours ago, nik mond said:

I think I've been doing this for quite some time.

I didn't think it could be new...

3 hours ago, nik mond said:

The natural spread of the bullets, or projectiles of any caliber might get lucky and strike a hit on whatever is making that sound contact.

That's what area fire is for, after all.

3 hours ago, nik mond said:

That icon is usually not directly located on top of the enemy...

Maybe not if they were seen mobile, but if they haven't moved, the icon will be right where you last saw them. Even if you only see part of an element that's spread out over a broad area (like if they're on Assault movement orders) and the "solid contact spotted" icon wouldn't be directly over the pTruppe(n) you see, when the solid contact goes tentative (when they duck down behind Bocage, say), the "tentative" icon will be where the pTruppe's polygons were drawn.

[nik mond]

... yes, but its nice to see area fire does work well in this game with a bit of management. The effect of which has been questioned in the past.

[womble]

Nik: This isn't about the effectiveness of area fire. This is about a novel way of targetting area fire. Area fire has always (since I've been playing the game, i.e. CMBN v1.0) been effective; I haven't noticed any credible assertions that it is ineffective. I did some testing really early on that persuaded me that area fire next to an infantry element provides about half the suppression effect of area fire into the same AS. It's a keystone of many fire and maneuver sequences for lots of players.

[nik mond]

yes I understand, I took things off course a bit. I sometimes use these icons for targeting, or sometimes I just click on the tile it corresponds to. I just tested it in Red Thunder. I clicked on a tentative contact icon which was well above the horizon line of my POV, and my selected unit latched its area fire to a tile beneath it. Even though it did not have LOS with the original enemy unit, it did area fire the ground it latched onto. Its very handy for dealing with an area further away so you don't have to start sweeping the ground looking for the nearest accessible target line.

[womble]

Aha! If it's in Red Thunder, that means it's been in a while, and it's not an "exploit". 

Praise to BFC for a usability improvement!

[Sublime]

On 5/8/2016 at 10:46 AM, nik mond said:

I think I've been doing this for quite some time. The natural spread of the bullets, or projectiles of any caliber might get lucky and strike a hit on whatever is making that sound contact. That icon is usually not directly located on top of the enemy, but they are nearby.so area attacking tiles in that vicinity can score with a bit of luck. One example at close range are flame throwers. I had an ft team 35m from a contact icon separated by a mound and slight rise in elevation. I targeted the flamers where they were allowed to hit next to the icon. What's unique about flame throwers is they strike with a very wide spread across a couple tiles. You could hear the enemy getting hit in this case.

In forests area target in the hopes that stray bullets or byllets going past  the targetting point works wonders with smgs lmgs and hmgs. In other terraijn the quad 50 is grwat for hitting stuff thats a little beyond the targetring line. Less so with regular hmgs but it happens. Any german light AAA vehicle used for DF with more than one gun in use at once is good too. You get more of a beaten zone.

Howeber i didnt notice you could target sound contacts. Good find.

[Michael Emrys]

47 minutes ago, Sublime said:

In forests area target in the hopes that stray bullets or byllets going past  the targetting point works wonders with smgs lmgs and hmgs.

In the training campaign for RT there is a point [SPOILER! SPOILER! DO NOT READ BEYOND THIS POINT IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED THIS ALREADY!] where the Germans have set up an ambush in the woods. I knew this from a previous playthrough and this time I wanted to turn the tables on them, but how to do it without getting my own men cut to pieces in the process? What I did is set up several well-armed teams just beyond spotting distance and one LMG. I set the LMG to area fire just short of where I thought the enemy to be, hoping that some bullets would reach them and provoke a reaction. And that's just what they did. The Germans started returning fire and that's when they became visible to my entire pair of squads, who promptly annihilated them. Boy, did I enjoy that!

Michael

[cool breeze]

I been doing this for a long time    Old timers

[Lethaface]

12 minutes ago, cool breeze said:

I been doing this for a long time    Old timers

Same here  Although forested area's often block LOF/LOS, so it isn't always the best way to find a nice area target.

[cool breeze]

Yeah, problem is it targets where the dudes were rather than where they are/ were heading.

[womble]

Oh, it's certainly not a panacaea for shooting at ghosts. The icon often doesn't have an aim point, and if you haven't noticed they were moving, you'll be wasting ammo. I wonder when this started to be possible...

[stikkypixie]

Is this available on every difficulty level?

[DasMorbo]

On 7.5.2016 at 11:34 PM, womble said:

So I spotted something this evening I didn't know you could do. If there is a "tentative contact" icon at a location where a unit that can "see" (?sense?) that contact, can draw LOS to, you can click a Target order on that icon, and give an Area Target (or Briefly or Light) to the AS where that icon has been identified as being. It's definitely the icon that lets you because it's possible to pick a POV which puts the icon way above the ground, or in front of terrain that's definitely in defilade. Hovering the mouse over the icon will give you the targeting status for "where you noticed the tentative contact", such as "Reverse slope - No aim point", the range, and hull-down status relative to that point. Somehow, the icon also can be partially targetable; I've got one now where the left side (from the POV of the unit that has the contact) is "Reverse Slope" but the right side is targetable...

Hmmm.

I am not quite sure if I got your point - do you say that you can directly click the 'tentative contact icon'? I have tested in my copy of CMFB and I can't target these icons. I can area fire the AS if my dudes have LOS but that is all. Maybe it is a (nice) bug? The game calculating the tentative contact like a direct contact?

[womble]

4 hours ago, DasMorbo said:

Hmmm.

I am not quite sure if I got your point - do you say that you can directly click the 'tentative contact icon'? I have tested in my copy of CMFB and I can't target these icons. I can area fire the AS if my dudes have LOS but that is all. Maybe it is a (nice) bug? The game calculating the tentative contact like a direct contact?

No. The game only allows you to Target Area at the icon (if the icon is over an AS that you could ordinarily have Area Targetted). It's a pure convenience. Sometimes you want to shoot at an enemy you know has ducked, or which one of your elements has spotted, but with a unit which only has a "?" icon. Instead of zooming about and into the map to get the target line placed where you want it, the icon is an easy way of getting the order issued. 

[Rayak47]

I wish I'd read this a week ago, when I had sound contacts all over the place in "December Morning!"  (SPOILER) I was all proud of myself reversing out and knocking out a King Tiger that hadn't spotted me at 1200m near the start, thought it was going to be a cake walk, then got bogged down.  Need to get home from work and try out some reconnaissance by fire with this! 

Edited May 13, 2016 by Rayak47

[DasMorbo]

On 12.5.2016 at 0:28 AM, womble said:

No. The game only allows you to Target Area at the icon (if the icon is over an AS that you could ordinarily have Area Targetted). It's a pure convenience. Sometimes you want to shoot at an enemy you know has ducked, or which one of your elements has spotted, but with a unit which only has a "?" icon. Instead of zooming about and into the map to get the target line placed where you want it, the icon is an easy way of getting the order issued. 

Yeah, you are right! I tested it and found it to be quite comfortable, especially on those large CMFB maps. Thank you for the heads up I wouldn't have noticed myself, I guess.