A Muddy Affair vs the AI

[slysniper]

This was my first battle within the new game and I looked for a Scenario that appeared it might be good for playing against the AI.

I found it, This was a good challenge vs the AI, which is not normal for me. The set up and map were great. I give the designer a 10 out of 10 on this one.

You need to play as the American's , as is recommended.

 

I had a minor victory, but in truth. I had my ass kicked. There was even a couple of moments where the game managed to make a move against me that  a person would use.

The enemy armor had its moments of really messing me up.

 

In the end my attack was finished, I had no operational armor left and the germans did.   Great challenge.

 I would not recommend this game for H2H play.  (Unless you like a German win)

[Andrew H.]

I would also recommend River of Blood against the AI.  I also won, but I also felt like the AI kicked my ass.  It has an interesting puzzle aspect to it, plus lots of opportunities for realistic tactics.  

[PanzerMike]

Thanks for the compliments, guys !

[Vanir Ausf B]

4 hours ago, slysniper said:

I would not recommend this game for H2H play.  (Unless you like a German win)

I actually won a PBEM in this scenario as Americans during beta testing. It was a "Minor victory", eeked out on literally the last turn of the game. You'll need a bit of luck in the armor duels (which I got) but it's possible.

Bogging can be a huge factor in this scenario, and admittedly my game was played when bogging chances in muddy terrain were lower than they are now.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Vanir Ausf B

[Bulletpoint]

1 hour ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

Bogging can be a huge factor in this scenario, and admittedly my game was played when bogging chances in muddy terrain were lower than they are now.

Did that change? If so, when ?

[slysniper]

1 hour ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

I actually won a PBEM in this scenario as Americans during beta testing. It was a "Minor victory", eeked out on literally the last turn of the game. You'll need a bit of luck in the armor duels (which I got) but it's possible.

Bogging can be a huge factor in this scenario, and admittedly my game was played when bogging chances in muddy terrain were lower than they are now.

Nice win.

But I would be hard pressed to think I could lose to anyone if I had the German side.  But I will say, the map scoring makes it somewhat balanced in that you don't need to clear the map, just gain a majority of it. Again a impressive battle design

As for bogging, I lost two tanks to that. I tried to use good terrain as much as possible, but that leads into bad positions verse the Germans.

What is sad, the new game has bugs in it I have not seen before, the game should be improving, not getting worse.

Anyway, one bug cost me another tank. it just would not move no matter what the order was. everything showed fine. but it was not. (I just looked at it as if another tank bogged.) Because the chances sure were there.

[slysniper]

6 hours ago, Andrew H. said:

I would also recommend River of Blood against the AI.  I also won, but I also felt like the AI kicked my ass.  It has an interesting puzzle aspect to it, plus lots of opportunities for realistic tactics.  

Thanks, I will move onto that. I prefer h2h, but I always like a few AI games when I get into a new one just to get a feel for how its playing. I am already noticing that the small arms for the Germans are sure giving them a new feel.

I have to smile though, I think I have kill most of them during clip changes. Yes they have the fire power, but they also run out of ammo when I assault and when you are out numbered, that hurts.

[Vanir Ausf B]

2 hours ago, slysniper said:

Anyway, one bug cost me another tank. it just would not move no matter what the order was. everything showed fine. but it was not. (I just looked at it as if another tank bogged.) Because the chances sure were there.

Got a save file?

[Vanir Ausf B]

2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Did that change? If so, when ?

During development. I don't remember the date

[slysniper]

37 minutes ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

Got a save file?

actually I do, it sat in the same spot for about half the game. so I have a few saves from different points in the game.

 

[Vanir Ausf B]

Post it here (Dropbox link, ect) or if you can't do that I'll message you an email address

[PanzerMike]

8 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Did that change? If so, when ?

Quite late in the development stage. All the scenarios I made take Place in muddy conditions in either Holland or Lorraine, France. The mud played a huge role historically in the campaigns of the fall on the Western Front, but in CM you hardly noticed. It was a nuisance at best I guess. It was decided to make mud more of a factor to reckon with. For instance, in A Muddy Affair (the battle for Singling), the reason the infantry were riding on the tanks, was that the halftracks got stuck in the mud.

It is, however, tricky to get right. A human can try to avoid the worst for instance, but the AI is not that smart.

Also, there is more of a (bad) luck factor involved when playing in Mud. Applying good tactics but still being thwarted by the mud, can be frustrating.

This makes designing a mud scenario a little trickier imho. Same thing with snow conditions.

The mud should be a factor, but not make too much of an impact. I mean if 10 minutes into play half your tanks are immobilized, where is the fun in that? But being careful where to move your precious armor should be in the back of your mind when driving around in the soggy fields of 1944 Europe.

Not easy to get it exactly right in the game, is it? Share your muddy adventures, I really would like to know if mud is currently handled well by the engine in your opinion.

Edited April 17, 2016 by PanzerMike

[kevinkin]

In the editor, there are muddy tiles to add to the map and muddy ground conditions to select in data. Are they at all additive? 

Kevin

[Vanir Ausf B]

I'm guessing "yes", but could be wrong. Do note that the casualty reduction from ground conditions really is quite small, about 5% small in fact.

[kevinkin]

Thanks. Perhaps a little test is in order unless someone remembers for sure. I am pretty far along on a mission in the Parroy Forest that's just within the FB time frame (early October). Very well documented and a nice size for CM. Mud played a role hence my interest.

Kevin

Edited April 17, 2016 by kevinkin

[Ultradave]

On April 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Andrew H. said:

I would also recommend River of Blood against the AI.  I also won, but I also felt like the AI kicked my ass.  It has an interesting puzzle aspect to it, plus lots of opportunities for realistic tactics.  

On April 16, 2016 at 6:05 PM, slysniper said:

Thanks, I will move onto that. I prefer h2h, but I always like a few AI games when I get into a new one just to get a feel for how its playing. I am already noticing that the small arms for the Germans are sure giving them a new feel.

I have to smile though, I think I have kill most of them during clip changes. Yes they have the fire power, but they also run out of ammo when I assault and when you are out numbered, that hurts.

I second that recommendation on River of Blood. I play tested it a number of time as the Germans against the AI. Not easy even when you know what's coming (maybe it's just my luck - you know - if it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all)

 

 

[slysniper]

23 hours ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 8:42 PM, Vanir Ausf B said:

Post it here (Dropbox link, ect) or if you can't do that I'll message you an email address

Post it here (Dropbox link, ect) or if you can't do that I'll message you an email address

This makes no sence to me, I have drop box, but would you not just send me a invite to share a folder like any other time I am playing someone.

[slysniper]

18 hours ago, PanzerMike said:

Quite late in the development stage. All the scenarios I made take Place in muddy conditions in either Holland or Lorraine, France. The mud played a huge role historically in the campaigns of the fall on the Western Front, but in CM you hardly noticed. It was a nuisance at best I guess. It was decided to make mud more of a factor to reckon with. For instance, in A Muddy Affair (the battle for Singling), the reason the infantry were riding on the tanks, was that the halftracks got stuck in the mud.

It is, however, tricky to get right. A human can try to avoid the worst for instance, but the AI is not that smart.

Also, there is more of a (bad) luck factor involved when playing in Mud. Applying good tactics but still being thwarted by the mud, can be frustrating.

This makes designing a mud scenario a little trickier imho. Same thing with snow conditions.

The mud should be a factor, but not make too much of an impact. I mean if 10 minutes into play half your tanks are immobilized, where is the fun in that? But being careful where to move your precious armor should be in the back of your mind when driving around in the soggy fields of 1944 Europe.

Not easy to get it exactly right in the game, is it? Share your muddy adventures, I really would like to know if mud is currently handled well by the engine in your opinion.

I will say, for me I felt it was about right as to how mud impacted the game.  I crossed plenty of open ground with the armor, so losing two tanks for what I did, felt about right.

I knew better than to hit the tiles that look like plowed fields. I am not sure, but I believe they are high prone for bogs, but I have never tested it out to verify that.  Then as the game progressed I stayed on the roads as much as possible because as my armor started to dwindle, I just did not want to bear losing it to mud instead of a attack. But the map and situation would force me to take the risk and flank in the field at times.

So I enjoyed it, but I remember before, when they had mud nailing tanks and so many players complained they backed the setting off to where it is in the other games. So we will see how players handle it now. No question it can be frustrating, and many players cannot handle that when it is impacting the results of the game.

[Vanir Ausf B]

23 minutes ago, slysniper said:

This makes no sence to me, I have drop box, but would you not just send me a invite to share a folder like any other time I am playing someone.

You have two options when you share a Dropbox folder: "Invite people to collaborate" and "Send link". If you choose the latter then you can share any file in that folder with anyone who you give a direct link to. For example:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8svvyzlahounxc4/Verdenne%20No%201%20Abt%2016%20Pz.btt?dl=0

 

[slysniper]

On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 11:24 AM, Andrew H. said:

I would also recommend River of Blood against the AI.  I also won, but I also felt like the AI kicked my ass.  It has an interesting puzzle aspect to it, plus lots of opportunities for realistic tactics.  

I went and played this one also.

Very similar in feel as the other except this time you are the Germans and you are heading into a defensive wall.

Sadly I lost two pieces of armor to mud in this battle, and there is not much armor to lose. So not helping the cause.

Plus one was on the road that was available, so all that much harder to stomach.

again a good challenge and the scoring is correct for the Situation.

Once again a win will feel like a loss, so for sure a battle designed to play vs the Ai

 

[slysniper]

 

 

And here is the AI unit that did me in within this battle, let alone did I not win any armor duels vs it. It had at least four teams with antitank PF's attach it also.

All I can say is luck can be cruel when it goes against you at times.

Used smoke, maneuvered units to attack from different directions at the same time and so on.  Not ont thing worked out as planned. it also was hit a couple of times, but as can be seen, still is running and fully crewed.

Edited April 30, 2016 by slysniper
bad address

[c3k]

I'll second (third, fourth?) slysniper's comment. This has been a very good game as the US vs the AI. The scale is good for multiple plays. Tricky LOS, great map, great enemy force balance and setup.

Nicely done. Okay...REALLY nicely done.

Ken

[MG TOW]

Usually I want more tanks, in this one I desperately needed more troops, especially engineers. I was treating that little breach team with special care. Just how many hits can a panther take? No its all good. If you can get an Arty spotter to soften up a concentration it helps. And come in from the side, won't say which, keeps the pressure on the enemy and opens a back door.

[Ts4EVER]

Played the Singling battle as Americans today, got a tactical victory at the end with basically the same end result as in the real battle: One side of the village was mine, the other German. They lost 5 tanks, I lost 8, no cases of permanent bogging (didn't do much fancy off road maneuvering though). In the end infantry was running quite low for my liking so I decided to stop advancing and run down the clock the last 5 minutes (+ overtime).

[PanzerMike]

Well, the battle for Singling seems to be quite enjoyable for the posters in this thread from what I read. Great 

Singling is a real classic and very well documented. So I absolutely wanted to get it "right". 

Of course the experience may differ from player to player, depending on what tactics are applied and of course Lady Luck.