2015 Christmas Bones

[poesel]

Before this campaign thing dies: I have high hopes that CM will eventually support im- and export of data (one example: export surviving troops at the end of one battle which can be imported into a QB/scenario). Thus we can build our own campaign system around this.

If BFC does the tactical end and doesn't want to touch the operational level this would a logical conclusion (IMHO of course ).

[Gamer1]

Dress it up how you want...it's a mod...end of.

I don't mind and often do give money to modders, that decision is left up to me and me alone.

What I am seeing is a company SELLING a mod AND marketing it as a DLC.

AND

Saying the mod maker will get a 'significant cut'.........................how about the mod maker get ALL the money?

 

A mod is a labor of love and a gift to the community, it should NEVER be about making money.

 

These scenarios and maps you speak of, how much do you pay for them?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2015 by Gamer1

[RockinHarry]

As said, beside adding persitent map damage, inserting an additional options section between individual battles could make campaigns more interesting and adding replayability value.

Examples:

Battle 1 selectable options:

1. Combat reconnaissance mission

2. Who needs reconnaissance, ...attack with full force immediately!

3. Attack, but not before some further reinforcements arrived, or more fire support available.

4. ....

Battle 2, dependent upon selected option for battle 1

and so on

Off course it´s a whole lot of work for campaign creators, as it could easily double up or triple the number of missions to be included within a campaign, but options do not have to be included for every battle.

How does that sound?

[Vanir Ausf B]

Dress it up how you want...it's a mod...end of.

Realizing that I am feeding the troll, but...

As sttp pointed out, by your definition of the term most of the campaigns, scenarios and maps BFC has ever sold were "mods", and therefore reductio ad absurdum should have been given away for free.

As for the financial arrangements with the author, I presume they are satisfactory to the author else he would not have agreed to them.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Vanir Ausf B

[Gamer1]

So I am a troll...nice community you have here. Or is it just you that's given to childish name calling?

 

Mods should ALWAYS be free

That's the idea of mods.

You want to pay for them it should be YOUR choice, not have it foisted on you as a DLC.

Let's be honest, these games are over priced, $75 released in 2011 is a bit steep to say the least.

Rip off is what it is..plain and simple.

I am sure the mod maker IS happy with the financial arrangement, he's as grubby as the company hawking it.

If you don't mind paying for a mod that's your decision.

BTW..quoting logical fallacies does not make you clever,especially when they are out of context.

[ChrisND]

Dress it up how you want...it's a mod...end of.

No, it isn't. The people privy to CMx2's development are not the general public, especially when they have entered into a contract with us to do work. We have a number of "beta testers" (not really the most accurate term in our case, but it stuck) doing part time and contract work for us right now. Would you consider anything they do a mod? I really hope that that answer is no. Then why would you consider someone entering into an agreement with us to make content for sale (using the engine that Battlefront built) to be making mods, as opposed to making a product?

You can redefine terms all you want, but no one will take you seriously when you do.  Considering that your core argument is incorrect, I'm not even going to bother with the rest since it is built on a flawed foundation.

These scenarios and maps you speak of, how much do you pay for them?

Like many arrangements, the terms between us and the battle pack designer are private and will remain that way.

Edited December 29, 2015 by ChrisND

[Macisle]

Let's say I'm a costume maker in a Star Wars cosplay club. I make lots of costumes for people and never charge for them. Then one day, the Star Wars franchise decides that it likes my work and hires me to make a line of commercial costume products for them. Should all the people in my costume club get those products for free?

How about a home brewer who gives out his brew at parties for his friend's band? If he starts selling it in conjunction with a local brewer, should everyone that used to get free beer from him also get the new commercial beer for free?

How about a modder who gets a job at Dreamworks? Should all his online community contacts get anything he makes for Dreamworks for free?

You can use that logic to justify getting pretty much anything for free.

But then, that is your goal anyway.

And no, customers don't get to decide when they have to pay for products based on their feelings and whims about however the project to produce the product came about or is organized. Nor do they have any right whatsoever to expect access to that information.

Sheesh. Planet Earth calling...

Edited December 29, 2015 by Macisle

[alwaysfish]

So I am a troll...nice community you have here. Or is it just you that's given to childish name calling?

 

Mods should ALWAYS be free

That's the idea of mods.

You want to pay for them it should be YOUR choice, not have it foisted on you as a DLC.

Let's be honest, these games are over priced, $75 released in 2011 is a bit steep to say the least.

Rip off is what it is..plain and simple.

I am sure the mod maker IS happy with the financial arrangement, he's as grubby as the company hawking it.

If you don't mind paying for a mod that's your decision.

BTW..quoting logical fallacies does not make you clever,especially when they are out of context.

Dude, you sound like Wiggum. Wouldn't be surprised he is back, only under different name

[Macisle]

Dude, you sound like Wiggum. Wouldn't be surprised he is back, only under different name

Yeah, I was thinking that. His join date is 12/15.

[Warts 'n' all]

Perhaps a certain someone could start his own company TRLSoftware.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Yes, probably a sock puppet. Be even if he is not, his attempt to redefine the term "mod" in a way that would encompass BFC's entire product line has been repeatedly demolished. I have just added him to my ignore list, where his name is directly above Wiggam's

Edited December 29, 2015 by Vanir Ausf B

[Noba]

So I am a troll...nice community you have here. Or is it just you that's given to childish name calling?

 

Mods should ALWAYS be free

That's the idea of mods.

You want to pay for them it should be YOUR choice, not have it foisted on you as a DLC.

Let's be honest, these games are over priced, $75 released in 2011 is a bit steep to say the least.

Rip off is what it is..plain and simple.

I am sure the mod maker IS happy with the financial arrangement, he's as grubby as the company hawking it.

If you don't mind paying for a mod that's your decision.

BTW..quoting logical fallacies does not make you clever,especially when they are out of context.

You are entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else who posts here. Your opinion is that the content should be free, because it’s a mod. Another poster disagrees with you and you try and stop the ‘discussion’ by saying “…it’s a mod…end of?”

Sort of childish in a way to try and end discussion like that, no different to your ‘childish name calling’ comment?

I’m sure you have looked at the price and decided you won’t buy the base game and by extension, any follow up modules or packs. Complaining about the price and then name calling about the person doing most of the work by calling him “grubby” is in my view a slur on someone you have (probably) never met or know anything about.

An apology would be appropriate.

 

Noba.

[Gamer1]

Thanks for your reply Chris.

It does say in the original post:  'A Battle Pack is a community member-made set of campaigns'

Maybe I have misunderstood but in the modding community that I belong to a community member made set of anything is regarded as a mod (modification of the original game made by a member of the games fanbase). 

There seems to be a misconception that I am wanting something for nothing?

I am more than happy to pay for a MOD as long as it's voluntary and I often do.

The VALVE corporation recently tried this stunt and failed, not because the community didn't want to pay, they revolted because the concept of paid mods is contrary to what the modding community stand for.

I am not interested in a flame war with businessmen as that's just a waste of my time and yours.

Just let's have some honesty about the situation, contracts or not.

I am sure all your fanboys (brainwashed sheep) will come to your defence anyway.

If they are stupid enough to pay for a community mod then they you all deserve each other.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2015 by Gamer1

[Jotte]

Thanks for your reply Chris.

It does say in the original post:  'A Battle Pack is a community member-made set of campaigns'

Maybe I have misunderstood but in the modding community that I belong to a community member made set of anything is regarded as a mod (modification of the original game made by a member of the games fanbase). 

There seems to be a misconception that I am wanting something for nothing?

I am more than happy to pay for a MOD as long as it's voluntary and I often do.

The VALVE corporation recently tried this stunt and failed, not because the community didn't want to pay, they revolted because the concept of paid mods is contrary to what the modding community stand for.

I am not interested in a flame war with businessmen as that's just a waste of my time and yours.

Just let's have some honesty about the situation, contracts or not.

I am sure all your fanboys (brainwashed sheep) will come to your defence anyway.

If they are stupid enough to pay for a community mod then they you all deserve each other.

 

 

There are heaps of mod's that started out as free and then moved on to become paid products too, so your VALVE example isnt the "absolute truth" you seem to claim it to be either. 
And the battle pack isnt a mod. Its not something like say a modification to allow winter textures ie altering or adding stuff. Thats a mod. The battle pack is campaigns/missions made with a high standard with the CM editor. Its a battle/mission pack, just like its name say. Your other communitys definition of the word mod might not be universaly appliable. Battlefront have spelled out very well what the diffrent terminologis of base game, module, battle pack, upgrades and patches mean.

You end it all by insulting people with a broad brush and playing the martyr card. *slow clap to a tiny violine*

[Macisle]

Either Grand Moff Tarkin had Taco Bell for lunch again, or there is indeed a familiar stench on board...

[c3k]

Ahhh, the poster must've mistaken Christmas (since this is the "Christmas Bones" thread) for something else. See, on Christmas, people get gifts from a magical elf. Goods for free! Isn't it wonderful? Apparently, the poster thinks that's a model for economics. "You give me stuff for free, and it's good for everyone. Well, maybe not you, but it's good for me, so you should do it or you're greedy." Funny, but I'll bet he'd resist working for free for me. Shrug. That's the kind of outlook you get if you spend your days living under a bridge waiting for the unwary to pass by. 

The Battle Pack sounds like an excellent idea. I know...I've seen it.

Ken

[ChrisND]

Thanks for your reply Chris.

It does say in the original post:  'A Battle Pack is a community member-made set of campaigns'

You are being pedantic. You can be a member of the community and still do paid work for a project. Not mutually exclusive. Refer to Macisle's Star Wars costume maker example above. Just because the guy makes a line of costumes officially for Star Wars, doesn't mean he no longer does things as a part of the community afterwards, or during. The phrasing could be better, though, and that will be corrected in the future.

Maybe I have misunderstood but in the modding community that I belong to a community member made set of anything is regarded as a mod (modification of the original game made by a member of the games fanbase). 

And as I've already stated, the people involved in CMx2's development are something more than fanbase members.

There seems to be a misconception that I am wanting something for nothing?

I am more than happy to pay for a MOD as long as it's voluntary and I often do.

The VALVE corporation recently tried this stunt and failed, not because the community didn't want to pay, they revolted because the concept of paid mods is contrary to what the modding community stand for.

Once again, this isn't a mod, so the above is moot. Ignoring what people say isn't a great way to have a discussion (and I use that term loosely, since it is obvious that you aren't actually interested in a discussion).

 

I am not interested in a flame war with businessmen as that's just a waste of my time and yours.

I think that is the first time (and probably the last time) that anyone has ever referred to me as a "businessman". This only proves that you've no idea what place you have stumbled into.

Just let's have some honesty about the situation, contracts or not.

Ah yes, the insinuation that we are deceiving you somehow (and how, exactly?), despite the fact that we were upfront about everything, even with multiple heads-up over the months on what is happening before an official website announcement. This is the last resort of someone who has nothing constructive left to contribute.

I am sure all your fanboys (brainwashed sheep) will come to your defence anyway.

If they are stupid enough to pay for a community mod then they you all deserve each other.

I'm fed up with you strolling in here with your mind already made up with ill-conceived assumptions and insulting everyone here. Considering that you haven't given even a hint of actually reading and understanding what other people have presented to you, I don't see much hope in this going anywhere but a pointless flamewar. Banned.

[para]

Lmao 

[sburke]

On behalf of all the brainless sheep here I'd say that was a well deserved baaaaan.

man the looney bin is just emptying out for the holidays. 

Edited December 29, 2015 by sburke

[CarlWAW]

 

    You are describing the CMx1 Operations system and that's what we're not going to touch with a 10' pole again.  It was a nightmare on our end.

 

Thanks for your response Steve. Very cool to discuss with a developer directly. Even more so, if he is the developer of the best game I know.

Honestly I can't follow your argumentation now. You stated, that the frontlines in the CM1 system were the main problem. I raised the idea, since CM2 already has supply vehicles, to use these and leave it up to the tactical abilities of the player to get the supply to his units and forget the problem with the frontlne thing completely. Now you responded that persistent damage and units on the map would be like CM1 ops? Why if there are no frontlines creating headaches anymore?

If you even are able to code persistent map damage and at the end of a battle all units and their status is there, why not using their position and status too to get a snapshot as new basis to expand the power and potential variety of campaigns substantially? Besides the small scale campaigns I mentioned, new campaign-experiences would become possible.

I am thinking of an example of a campaign with short 30 minutes battles each. The time for each battle could be set unrealistically short for the player to reach the goals. But it would be up to the player to recognize it. Currently I always know before the first shot how strong the enemy will be and the time even tells me exactly, how well I am progressing. IMO this sometimes can give away too much information.

 

[BLSTK]

That's the kind of outlook you get if you spend your days living under a bridge waiting for the unwary to pass by. 

I'm afraid we Trolls take exception to the "urban legend" that this statement conveys.

I mean, since when was being a "Troll" a bad thing? And...oh...could you please direct me to the nearest bridge?

(P)resident Troll™

[c3k]

Best Christmas gift ever! Getting to see ChrisND use his shiny new +1 Banhammer of Smiting! Well swung, sir, well swung.

[ASL Veteran]

 

Once again, this isn't a mod, so the above is moot. Ignoring what people say isn't a great way to have a discussion (and I use that term loosely, since it is obvious that you aren't actually interested in a discussion).

 

 not only is the Battlepack not a mod, but the premise that the Battlepack is somehow being 'foisted' upon BFC's customers is also pretty ridiculous.  It is just as optional for someone to buy the Battlepack as it is for someone to 'voluntarily' contribute towards a mod.  The only difference is that someone who doesn't pay BFC for the Battlepack doesn't get to play with the content while I guess 'voluntary' contributions for mods mean you get to choose not to contribute and still play the content anyway.  This position then makes his little comments of 'I am willing to pay for mods and I do all the time' ring a little hollow since the foundation of his complaint is that he wants paying for the Battlepack to be 'optional' which in his case means 'I want the Battlepack to be free'.

[alwaysfish]

Before this campaign thing dies: I have high hopes that CM will eventually support im- and export of data (one example: export surviving troops at the end of one battle which can be imported into a QB/scenario). Thus we can build our own campaign system around this.

If BFC does the tactical end and doesn't want to touch the operational level this would a logical conclusion (IMHO of course ).

I like a lot this idea. The export/import could be done to/from simple XML file.

[Macisle]

I'm afraid we Trolls take exception to the "urban legend" that this statement conveys.

I mean, since when was being a "Troll" a bad thing? And...oh...could you please direct me to the nearest bridge?

(P)resident Troll™

I feel that all trolls should have a writing utensil shoved up their Johnny Appleseed and then be spun around so as to make their hair flare out.

But that's just one man's opinion.