New Gameplay features ?

[Jotte]

 

This is about some people in this thread that show attitude that, since CMBF has no new features, they didn't wanted any new features in the new game to begin with. This strikes me as hypocritical because as you've said everyone wants new features.

I think you are misstaking expecting with wanting here. Of course everyone would have liked (more) new features, but if one have paided attention to what BF staff posts about what they will put into CMFB you'd know more what to expect. Whats been rubbing quite a few here the wrong way is the demanding/entitelment attitude some display about game features, repeatedly and not just in this thread, hence the rather fast antagonistic attitude towards their posts. 

[Warts 'n' all]

I'd like to thank the BFC Bashers for changing my mind about this game. This time last week I wasn't planning on buying it. But, I am now.

 

[Aurelius]

Asking will there be new features in a new game=BFC Bashing. Sounds just like BFC Forum.

[Fizou]

The new setting and ToE is a HUGE deal. This is and has always been a game/simulation that caters to grogs and not casual rts gamers. If you dont appreciate setting, dates and ToE changes I understand you might pass on CMFB but Im really looking forward to it. Sure Id love more engine improvements and new features but its already been made clear its a 3.0 release. Dont act as you have been tricked. We will se new improvements down the line that can be back ported thank god (or bfc really). 

[Wiggum15]

I'd like to thank the BFC Bashers for changing my mind about this game. This time last week I wasn't planning on buying it. But, I am now.

 

Wow, yeah you need to support poor BFC...mean people that spend hundred of dollars on their games since 2007 are on there forums asking for new gameplay features in their new 55$ game...

Edited December 22, 2015 by Wiggum15

[Aurelius]

Wow, yeah you need to support poor BFC...mean people that spend hundred of dollars on their games since 2007 are on there forums asking for new gameplay features in their new 55$ game...

+1 to this! And if I may add- hundreds of hours.

[Wiggum15]

 

Again, you're not paying attention or you're a troll. There is almost no copy-paste content. Everything changes. If you don't believe it, then you're simply displaying your ignorance of what's involved.

 

Why do you call waclaw a troll ?

He has created great sound mods for CMx2 that improve the dull and lifeless "ever the same" standard sounds in CMx2 games !

Everything changes like in new textures + a few new formations ?

What exactly changed gameplay wise since CMBN 1.0 ? Not much if you are honest.

Just look at the UI !

Its the same since 2007, with a bit added patchwork. Its does not even scale correctly...what are the big improvements you and all the others talk about ?

Edited December 22, 2015 by Wiggum15

[weapon2010]

Did anyone ever hear the old saying?,"You're not seeing the Hurtgen forest through the trees" 

[ASL Veteran]

 

Why do you call waclaw a troll ?

He has created great sound mods for CMx2 that improve the dull and lifeless "ever the same" standard sounds in CMx2 games !

Everything changes like in new textures + a few new formations ?

What exactly changed gameplay wise since CMBN 1.0 ? Not much if you are honest.

Just look at the UI !

Its the same since 2007, with a bit added patchwork. Its does not even scale correctly...what are the big improvements you and all the others talk about ?

Ummm, Steve has already stated on a couple of occasions that they are working on a UI upgrade.  It just isn't going to happen for CMFB that's all.  If a UI upgrade is necessary for you to enjoy the game then I suppose you have another option besides buy or don't buy.  You can hold off on buying CMFB until the UI upgrade gets released and is backported to CMFB.  So we should be able to put that complaint in the 'problem solved' category.  I suppose that you could still complain and say that it 'should' be included in CMFB but since you already know that it is in the works that would simply mean that you want the CMFB release to be delayed for however long it takes for the UI upgrade to be completed.  That would then mean that you want to deny those who are fine with purchasing CMFB as is the ability to enjoy the game when it is finally released 'soon'.  You also want to take money out of BFC's pocket from the sales of CMFB and delay that income until the UI upgrade is complete.  So, in other words, you would rather not buy now but force everyone else to wait for another year because you want that upgrade included in CMFB rather than to let everyone else buy CMFB now and have you wait another year by yourself because you can't play without a UI upgrade when it is finally released.

I find the argument that is being put forward that ownership of prior releases entitles someone to complain to be a specious one.  Granted, a person who has purchased prior titles has more personally invested in the series but the option is always whether you want to buy or not buy based upon what's being offered because BFC has absolutely nothing invested in you.  If ten new customers buy CMFB and one old customer doesn't buy it then BFC is still ahead irrespective of whether you bought it or not.  Those purchases that you made before have already been put in the bank or spent by BFC a long time ago and have no bearing on anything going forward.  I had almost every Total War game ever released up until Shogun 2 was released so I had a lot invested in that series, but I delayed buying Rome 2 until it was on sale on Steam and after a short honeymoon I found that I didn't like it.  I haven't bought a Total War game on release for quite a while and even with an extended wait the Total War siren song drew me in to try one more time.  The game was okay for what it was I guess, but it wasn't exactly what I was hoping for.  I doubt that I'll ever buy another Total War game again and that's my choice.  After all those releases I have a good idea about the Total War game design philosophy now and I basically know what to expect for future releases.  Nobody from Total War is going to show up at my house and demand that I buy the next one and if I don't visit their forums I won't have to interact with anyone who likes it as is.  I'll just play Europa Universalis now instead. 

[Lille Fiskerby]

I will buy CMFB for sure, for me its the only wargame out here worth buing.

The fact its a base game is fine by me because since CMRT the graphics has improved

a lot compared to CMBN and CMSF, my hope is that new features will come in

the British/commenwealth module when we cross the Rhine with some of the vehicles

used in the crossing by 21^st Army Group, like the Buffalo and the DUKW.

[A Canadian Cat]

Did anyone ever hear the old saying?,"You're not seeing the Hurtgen forest through the trees" 

LOL, indeed. +1

1. This isn't about Wiggum, although on the first page of this thread, some people are derogatory to Wiggum, before he got into the tantrum, the OP and his first replies are quite civil. It just struck me as mean.

I can see that if you don't follow this forum regularly. He has a track record as a troll and many of us are well aware of what he is doing. He is probably the worst kind of troll because he seems to make arguments that you can kind of get but he is a classic goal post mover so you actually cannot really have a discussion with him. I see from your responses to Steve that you are reasonable person you listened to his points agreed he was right in places and stuck to your guns where you disagreed and even agreed to disagree. Excellent your brand of "pushing" for more will fit in just fine. But that is not how these few trolls work. If you bother to read their posts ( I have stopped and will be adding one more to my ignore list) what you will is is an unprincipled negative against anything just for the sake of the reaction type of troll. He has no problem offering "arguments" that contradict himself back and forth and nothing ever satisfies him. In other words a troll.

Well, that just goes and proves  you're either trolling or not paying attention.

Nice analysis. As usual it sums it up nicely. Trolls should be ignored and banned in that order.

[CarlWAW]

 

    Of course we're not interested in your problems because you have nothing to offer.

 

Am I the only one who finds the above sentence, which sets a hostile ad hominem tone of the reply, completely unnecessary? And IMO it's also twisting of words for the cheap effect to make a hit ad hominem possible. At least to me it is obvious, that he did NOT want to talk about his problems.

 

I was asking myself why is here such an agressive hostility torwards customers who demand something (which is the most common thing in the world), or make suggestions for improvements, or show a problem?

 

And here we go again...  

 

It is very clear to me, and many others, that you do not appreciate the fact that CMx2 has never before simulated the Bulge and the battles along the German border.  For people who want to explore this setting there is only ONE game that offers this... CMFB.  Therefore CMFB is unique by definition.  Which once again shows why your narrow minded definition of what a game is falls flat on its face. 

Steve

Not enough to say "...why your definition of what a game..."?

Is it possible that this kind of subtle attacking of others, is creating the quite strange climate on this forum?

I am no longer wondering, why Steve's followers also use this ad hominem style all the time. Just a few examples from a handful of the following comments:

Well, that just goes and proves  you're either trolling or not paying attention.

 

Again, you're not paying attention or you're a troll.

 

If you don't believe it, then you're simply displaying your ignorance of what's involved.

 

But lackwits like Wiggum and trolls (I think his last post just proved it) like Waclaw

 

Surely, as an educator, you have a problem with willful ignorance?

Heh.  I see I'm not alone in finding that tiny flaw in kulick's analogy.  At least I hope for the sake of his students it's a flaw in the analogy

Steve

I thinks it's quite unique, that IMO such a bad behaviour is even supported by a company on it's own forums.

 

[Aragorn2002]

I demand we end this fruitless discussion by releasing the game. That will teach them! 

[Holien]

I forsee a pad lock.....

People never cease to surprise me...

[Aragorn2002]

I forsee a pad lock.....

People never cease to surprise me...

I wouldn't worry too much about it. It is the usual preliminary barrage before the release of a game. I'm surprised we take it that seriously every time.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Aragorn2002

[sttp]

Wow. People are viewing this thread as just a couple of paying customers asking for more features? What I'm seeing from those two borders on outright misrepresentation of what's in this particular game, and what improvements have been made to the engine and to other games in the past. These 2 gentlemen should be extremely thankful, in my opinion, that they're even allowed to still post here. They're now outright lying about the company's products, on that company's own forums. This can't  possibly end well....

[womble]

I thinks it's quite unique, that IMO such a bad behaviour is even supported by a company on it's own forums.

 

Calling a troll on what they are up to isn't bad behaviour on any forum I've seen.

But then, you'd be a bit sensitive to that appellation yourself, Carl. Rather than just crying foul like the worst professional soccer player, how about you point out where waclaw has actually paid any attention at all to the corrections of his mendacious assertions and willfully negligent-of-the-facts comparisons?

Edited December 22, 2015 by womble

[A Canadian Cat]

Am I the only one who finds the above sentence, which sets a hostile ad hominem tone of the reply, completely unnecessary? 

 Well I suspect you are not alone but in a very small minority.  Steve even relpying is way more than is deserved.

...

 I don't know what you have been reading but @womble is not the one behaving badly.

 

I forsee a pad lock.....

The trouble with that is the trolls will just start another one or hijack an existing thread.  

People never cease to surprise me...

Yeah it is sad really.

[sburke]

 

 

Am I the only one who finds the above sentence, which sets a hostile ad hominem tone of the reply, completely unnecessary? And IMO it's also twisting of words for the cheap effect to make a hit ad hominem possible. At least to me it is obvious, that he did NOT want to talk about his problems.

I was asking myself why is here such an agressive hostility torwards customers who demand something (which is the most common thing in the world), or make suggestions for improvements, or show a problem?

Not enough to say "...why your definition of what a game..."?

Is it possible that this kind of subtle attacking of others, is creating the quite strange climate on this forum?

I am no longer wondering, why Steve's followers also use this ad hominem style all the time. Just a few examples from a handful of the following comments:

I thinks it's quite unique, that IMO such a bad behaviour is even supported by a company on it's own forums.

Sure let's talk about bad behavior - Wiggum earned himself a time out which eventually Steve (in his deluded nice guy way of thinking is gonna mean Wiggum might have learned something - kidding Steve, I know you knew better). 

So what is one of Wiggum's first actions on coming back?  Keep in mind he and I aren't friends and if it were up to me his ban would be permanent and he pretty much knows that.  So I get this.  (see pic below - couldn't get it to insert here)  So what do you call this - his behavior on the thread hasn't changed so in my eyes he is simply taunting here.  This is Wiggum.  All you guys protestations of innocence are a pile of bulls**t. 

This is not and has never been about criticizing the game.  That is the smoke screen put out by a few guys who just get off on trashing BF products for whatever that does for them.  Plenty of people here criticize aspects of the game.  Everybody here wants something different and we'd probably all never agree on a priority list.  Those critiques though are based in making the game better incrementally.  Wiggum says there has been no fundamental changes since 2007..wtf?  That is about the most blatantly inane comment he's made (and that is really saying something).  Any player who is truly interested in the product could count off a dozen major changes in a heartbeat.  Hell there have been so many CMSF game play is hard to adapt to when you go back.

Your ticket on the martyr train is not valid .  This forum would be better off without him.  Your continued defense reveals quite a bit about your character as well.

Edited December 22, 2015 by sburke

[kulik]

Am I the only one who finds the above sentence, which sets a hostile ad hominem tone of the reply, completely unnecessary? And IMO it's also twisting of words for the cheap effect to make a hit ad hominem possible. At least to me it is obvious, that he did NOT want to talk about his problems.

 

I am no longer wondering, why Steve's followers also use this ad hominem style all the time. Just a few examples from a handful of the following comments:

 

 

  8 hours ago, womble said:

Surely, as an educator, you have a problem with willful ignorance?

 

Yup, that one hurt quite a bit. 

[A Canadian Cat]

+1 @sburke

Yep, I have privately advocated for using hell banning for these guys who try to get a reaction on these forums. Steve is a give them a chance kinda guy. If it were up to me the banning would come al lot quicker. Honestly though there are a couple of posters here that I would have banned but who actually did get the message and are now contributing posters, critical but contributing. I think that speaks to how much Steve values criticism and decenting opinion. He puts up with way more than I would.

[DougPhresh]

I'm afraid it would be more of the same arguments, and have to be locked, but would it be possible to see an update to the Brief overview of where CM is headed ?

I know that CMFB got a little delayed, but it looks great. I'm curious to see what's next!
 

[Aurelius]

The main problem here is how a certain group (I like to call them BFC Forum nobility) perceives criticism. Everything is an attack aimed at BFC and everything said is CMx2 is bad. It is understandable for people who have spent hundreds of dollars and hours on CMx2 series to ask whether there will be new features (like tank riders, hit decals, UAV were back in those days). And it is understandable for them to show discontent on a public forum. But that somehow gets translated into BFC STAHP MAKING BAD GAEMZ!!

[sburke]

The main problem here is how a certain group (I like to call them BFC Forum nobility) perceives criticism. Everything is an attack aimed at BFC and everything said is CMx2 is bad. It is understandable for people who have spent hundreds of dollars and hours on CMx2 series to ask whether there will be new features (like tank riders, hit decals, UAV were back in those days). And it is understandable for them to show discontent on a public forum. But that somehow gets translated into BFC STAHP MAKING BAD GAEMZ!!

No the main problem is these aren't attempts at criticism. That is just the smokescreen.  Again a statement that there have been no fundamental changes since 2007?  Really, you think that is at all valid?  Sorry, gonna call it bulls**t. 

It is simply trying to provoke a reaction and then when it gets it the hands go in the air and the cry "oh poor me, look at what those meanie BF "nobility" (translation fanboy) are saying. I am so oppressed.   Hmm sounds like a segue for a Python skit.

All the obsfucation is to no avail.  We know the behavior and we know the players.  It doesn't change, we aren't fooled and we aren't sympathetic  

tell it it to someone else, maybe with a new audience you can actually fool someone  

 

[Aurelius]

No, I don't think it's valid. But you're just proving my point. If you know the players, then why do you fall for it every time?  Oh, that's right, you're entitled to call out bulls**t. Hence a new nickname for you and your crew.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Aurelius