Cobetco Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) No drawings today, just looking for some wisdom from those who are more knowledgeable. since i have no military experience and my own historical knowledge tends to dwell in 13th century Europe, i tend to treat Combat Mission like a puzzle game. (gasp how could he) i always have a challenge on hand in the fantastic scenarios Battlefront has put together and i have learned a lot, as i can now approach most balanced scenarios I've never played and cobble together some sort of win. BUT one challenge alludes my grasp. the Anti Tank Gun! i have No idea how to take out these puppies in an attack and always lose 2-3 tanks to them. my strategy thus far has been either to use mortar fire (tends to be direct fire) to have the crews abandon their weapon, or path around them (not always an option) but i feel like their is a better way of finding and eliminating their threat. any suggestions? Edited December 15, 2015 by Cobetco 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnarly Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Cobetco, completely off-topic; what is the (I assume?) manga/anime series from which your avatar picture derives? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobetco Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) Why it comes from Die Wurst Essen Pause, Page 5 of Banemans AAR for FInal Blitzkrieg. beyound that? ummm i Think Georgia-Pacific made the paper i drew it on. Edited December 15, 2015 by Cobetco 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) No drawings today, just looking for some wisdom from those who are more knowledgeable. since i have no military experience and my own historical knowledge tends to dwell in 13th century Europe, i tend to treat Combat Mission like a puzzle game. (gasp how could he) i always have a challenge on hand in the fantastic scenarios Battlefront has put together and i have learned a lot, as i can now approach most balanced scenarios I've never played and cobble together some sort of win. BUT one challenge alludes my grasp. the Anti Tank Gun! i have No idea how to take out these puppies in an attack and always lose 2-3 tanks to them. my strategy thus far has been either to use mortar fire (tends to be direct fire) to have the crews abandon their weapon, or path around them (not always an option) but i feel like their is a better way of finding and eliminating their threat. any suggestions?You've pretty much got it, direct fire with mortars or artillery is the BEST way. Alternatively if you have to use armor make sure its at least 3 tanks, that way that AT gun is only going to get one shot at destroying the before its overwhelmed by at least the other 2 tanks. Edited December 15, 2015 by Raptorx7 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Also area fire a lot when position is known, even if not spotted. It will keep their heads down while you advance and some stray bullits or shells might cause casualties. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchior Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 A lot of video games based on rock-paper-scissors mechanics have led a lot of people to really misunderstand anti-tank guns in milgames. I had it wrong for a while too but make no mistake, an anti-gun is a big, dangerous, valuable weapon system that any force would love to be complimented with. It is literally a tank's gun, just minus the tank. It should really be treated as such. A frontal infantry assault on it is a no-no. Especially if it's one of those big 75mm suckers like a Pak 40 or Flak 36. Whole squads can get wiped in one good hit.At the same time you should remember that because an anti-tank gun is largely static, you can turn it into a big liability for the enemy. Like any support weapon system your first rule should be to avoid its line of sight unless you can simply overpower it with lots of heavy fire. Make it heavy too because most ATGs have bullet shields and can operate through the suppressing fire of one or two mgs. Make it bombs, not bullets.Like others have said artillery is the easiest and best solution for any heavy weapon system. Got a spot on a Pak38 on that hill? Forward Observer -> 105mm -> 1-2 guns -> Light/Long -> Fire for Effect. Failing that, just outmaneuver it. It can't move (easily) and it's perfectly reasonable for infantry to invest a gun position if they can maneuver very close to it.The biggest irony to me about anti-tank guns I've found, is that tanks are actually the best counter to them. All you need to do is find them before they find you, and they're toast. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 You can nail ATGs with "popup" coordinated tank shoots, too. Best if the attacks can come from widely divergent directions, so the slow traverse of the gun, prior to its suppression, can't get a bead on either/any of the tanks doing the harrassing. You have to localise the ATG, then have a threat appear briefly from a direction it's not already pointing, then disappear (by reversing back into defilade) having flung some HE at the gun's general area, to be replaced by a threat from another angle (maybe the way the gun was pointing originally), throw some more HE at it, and withdraw. Generally, a handful of 75mm HE will pin the ATG to the point where it can't return fire, and you can either transfer the harrassment role to an MG which will eventually drive the crew to abandon their gun (while you go do something else urgent with your armour), or leave one tank in view of the gun, firing HE until it's destroyed. It's important that you have good eyes on the gun, and that you're aware that ATGs are often positioned in mutually supporting locations, so that your "popup" attacks might take fire from previously undetected pieces. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnarly Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 You can nail ATGs with "popup" coordinated tank shoots, too. Best if the attacks can come from widely divergent directions, so the slow traverse of the gun, prior to its suppression, can't get a bead on either/any of the tanks doing the harrassing. You have to localise the ATG, then have a threat appear briefly from a direction it's not already pointing, then disappear (by reversing back into defilade) having flung some HE at the gun's general area, to be replaced by a threat from another angle (maybe the way the gun was pointing originally), throw some more HE at it, and withdraw. Generally, a handful of 75mm HE will pin the ATG to the point where it can't return fire, and you can either transfer the harrassment role to an MG which will eventually drive the crew to abandon their gun (while you go do something else urgent with your armour), or leave one tank in view of the gun, firing HE until it's destroyed. It's important that you have good eyes on the gun, and that you're aware that ATGs are often positioned in mutually supporting locations, so that your "popup" attacks might take fire from previously undetected pieces.Good info Womble, thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobetco Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 thanks all, i was hoping there was a faster way then i had been doing. but it looks like as i feared it all comes down to my success in the scouting phase.maybe silly art tomorrow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnarly Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Why it comes from Die Wurst Essen Pause, Page 5 of Banemans AAR for FInal Blitzkrieg. beyound that? ummm i Think Georgia-Pacific made the paper i drew it on. Ahh, now I've clicked. The artwork is in fact yours? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobetco Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) yes? why? is there some sort of no anime girls rule here on the forum that i've broken? because i've broken it 3 times so far. Edited December 16, 2015 by Cobetco 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 yes? why? is there some sort of no anime girls rule here on the forum that i've broken? because i've broken it 3 times so far.Why? If I may hazard a guess as to Gnarly's confusion, it's based on the excellent character and quality of your illustrations. I'm certain no denigration was intended. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Anti-anti-tank gun tactics (AATGT?): use scouts. Either split infantry teams which get into overwatch (with binos), flood the zone, and sit for 10 minutes, or use scout cars/tanks. That takes a lot of time and is a very slow approach. Otherwise, several tanks at a time come out, so that one should spot the firing ATG. Once spotted (or suspected), then either avoid its field of fire, or disable it. You can disable it with Arty, or direct-lay mortar, or direct-lay HE, or multiple machineguns (or autocannon, if present). The indirect method is best (avoid it, flank it, kill it). However, SMOKE is really your friend if you don't have lots of responsive arty. (Arty is the best, as in 105mm or bigger.) Dropping some SMOKE right in front of the ATG neutralizes it and gives you time to cross the covered zone. Area fire at it, Smoke it, assault it. Then take pictures of your men cavorting around the trophy. Anime: yes, agree with the others that your drawings are very well done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchior Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Depending on the given Army's philosophy towards recon you may want to be careful with *how* you scout. The British and Americans like to send armored cars and teams along various potential routes to determine which one *doesn't* have any anti-tank guns. The Germans are largely the same, with the added benefit of being heavily armed against soft targets so if the circumstances are ideal they can take down AT guns by themselves. The Russians largely don't care, they'll figure out where an AT gun is once it starts shooting and then reward the crew's bravery by giving them a heroic (brutal) death. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobetco Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) Why? If I may hazard a guess as to Gnarly's confusion, it's based on the excellent character and quality of your illustrations. I'm certain no denigration was intended.Yep, i knew that. my further comment was meant to be a light hearted absurdity. but now that i read it again it sounds like i felt insulted or was on the defensive. sometimes i wish their was a written system in the English language to denote tone. Edited December 16, 2015 by Cobetco 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I for one, am honoured to have had Bratwurst Girl in my thread.Mmmmm <thinks of currywurst> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnarly Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Why? If I may hazard a guess as to Gnarly's confusion, it's based on the excellent character and quality of your illustrations. I'm certain no denigration was intended.Most definitely! I'd been off doing searches for 'Die Wurst Essen Pause', 'ww2 female anime' and a host of other such terms, to no avail... ;( Then it finally dawned on me, and I was most impressed! Is there a gallery of Bratwurst girl (and friends?) somewhere? Edited December 17, 2015 by gnarly 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobetco Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Opse, maybe i shouldn't have cracked a joke in German like that. <takes notes.> Ummm my Imgur Account has everything i've done (err finished) in the last month or so.that link is here: http://imgur.com/user/wjenison/submitted just a warning, might be some inappropriate stuff there too. Edited December 17, 2015 by Cobetco 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnarly Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Opse, maybe i shouldn't have cracked a joke in German like that. <takes notes.> Ummm my Imgur Account has everything i've done (err finished) in the last month or so.that link is here: http://imgur.com/user/wjenison/submitted just a warning, might be some inappropriate stuff there too.Sa-weet! Many thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I for one, am honoured to have had Bratwurst Girl in my thread.Mmmmm <thinks of currywurst> WHAT!!??? Baneman gets a Cobetco original character in his thread but I get nothing in mine? I am hurt. Baneman, I hope bratwurst girl gets helmet hair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 WHAT!!??? Baneman gets a Cobetco original character in his thread but I get nothing in mine? I am hurt. Baneman, I hope bratwurst girl gets helmet hair.Even I got exploding-ears girl in mine!Bil, I think you scare people. That must be it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) Even I got exploding-ears girl in mine!Bil, I think you scare people. That must be it! I got panzerfaust girl in mine, I think were all tied 1-1-1, so far!Keep up the good work so far Cobetco, maybe throw Bil a Hamburger GI girl eh? Edited December 18, 2015 by Raptorx7 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobetco Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) WHAT!!??? Baneman gets a Cobetco original character in his thread but I get nothing in mine? I am hurt. Baneman, I hope bratwurst girl gets helmet hair. heh i can only make these so fast, and they have all been reactionary. But if you want one Bil maybe slip a good reference photo of a one of those Sherman (flame) ball mounts (( I figure they look different since the OT-34 and Crocodile have different mounts for flamethrowers. A real one would be nice, but i cant find any good photos. But a nice pic of Battlefronts model will work too)) and give me your opinion on the humble Corn Dog. Edited December 18, 2015 by Cobetco 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 ... Baneman, I hope bratwurst girl gets helmet hair.What a terrible thing to say ! In fairness, he IS using her as his avatar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Bil, I think you scare people. That must be it! I think it's HIS avatar - just look at that stern visage ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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