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Russians Revenge - Sublimes DAR vs Jammer Russian Attack (JAMMERSIX STAY OUT)


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Thanks Sublime for this AAR!

"Grab them by their belt buckles" , I think,  is a quote from General Hồ Chí Minh in relation to fighting the massive fire power advantage of the US army against the NVA in the Vietnam war. As you pointed out, by hugging the enemy it helps to nullify  their artillery and air assets firepower superiority.

I think ultimately it failed though as the NVA suffered horrendous losses trying to fight the US conventionally.

Great book by that name btw.



Edited by Kuderian
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I also seemed to recall the quote being from Vietnam. However Ho Chi Minh wasnt a general, rather a politician, and very old by the 'American War' as the US phase in Indochina is known in Vietnam, I think rather you're thinking of General Giap.

It failed when the NVA tried to fight the US conventionally.  However thats a different matter than just the dictum of hugging the enemies belt buckle.  In cases where Vietnamese were too close for effective air or artillery support it was very effective, often leading to US men at the very least calling in strikes on their own positions sometimes killing there own men.

For some good books on Vietnam  I recommend my old Professors book on the VC (or NLF as it was known there) Vietnam's Southern Revolution by David Hunt.  It uses exhaustive research from Vietnamese sources and also a treasure trove of RAND Corporation reports of interrogations and info on the VC at the time.

and Dien Bien Phu by Jules Roy, and IMO the absolute end all on DBP The Last Valley by Windrow.   Last Stand at Khe Sanh by Gregg Jones is excellent, as is Kill Anything That Moves by  Nick Terse.

Vietnam - A History by Stanley Karnow is a good overview book of the war.  

Breaking Squelch by Stephen Saunders was written by a forum member's (here) brother and mailed to me by him. I found it an excellent source of information on the man's experiences in Vietnam.

Working Class War and Patriots - Vietnam Remembered by Chris Appy are excellent Vietnam books that focus on personal accounts. I particularly fell in love with Working Class War.

The Best and Brightest by David Halberstam is an excellent book on the high level political US side of things.

As for grunt literature books written by men who were there and largely based on there experiences my favorites are : Matterhorn by Karl Marlantes,  The 13th Valley by DelVecchio, Fields of Fire by James Webb, and Close Quarters by Larry Heinemen.

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Kino - while I love the ZSU, and loved it in SF, its not the ZSU23 in game. Its actually the Tunguska. The ZSU uses 23mm cannons and four of them. The Tunguska uses 2 30mm and also has SAMs on it, while the ZSU is purely AAA.   While the Tunguska is more multirole,  Id like to be able to use ZSUs too and suspect the extra two barrels would be really really hard on enemy infantry- worse than the terror the Tunguska is.   However against vehicles I think the 30mm on the Tunguska probably helps some - I mean it wont destroy most US AFVs but you have a chance on Bradley flanks perhaps.  Though Ive noticed if you get the drop on even a lone US abrams and the Tunguska isnt taken out or distracted by another immediate US threat its constant barrage of fire will shock the US vehicle into inaction or sometimes retreating.

Then again maybe the 23mm wouldnt matter really - the 30mm to the front doesnt penetrate Brads or Abrams so maybe 4x 23mm would do the same or better job of scouring subsystems on the vehicles and shocking them into inaction.

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Yup. As i posted above.

Anyways my advance towards the NW major VP continues unmolested. My center infantry platoons are down to about half strength or less due to artillery and prolonged combat. meh. Im pretty sure he.s taking more losses fighting me with small arms and HMGs versus at least one and often several AFVs stacked firing on every inf foxhole or visible target.

My right flank inf platoon has lost a few men but is gaining ground especially since the Tunguska had added its guns to the firefight.

My artillery is starting to slam into his positions and Im seeing my fire begin to have an effect in the center. Besides the occasional US body Im now encountering HQ units or infantry teams firing back from open ground or behind picket fences. A sure sign of infantry breaking or the tac ai pulling them out and the player kyboshing the move and ordering them to stand and fight.

Also I was utterly wrong about my opponent reloading his stingers which he must have done. My Su25 kicked around over the field a few turns and suddenly about 6 stingers opened up at once. Another Su25 down. Oh well, I still feel victory is close at hand however am relatively mystified at the lack of appearance of any US vehicles.

I cant fathom Jammer buying all infantry unless he really thought .50s and Javelins would stop a large scale Russian combined arms attack. I really hope he brought armor to the party or we.ll never hear the end of how he would have won if he.d brought his precious bradleys and some abrams.  

However I think he.s hiding them and plans to rush them out at some point when he figures im vulnerable.

Ill post screens later but using my screens above my new plan  should be clear from what I type: my left flanl advance will advance to the NW VP and hook right and essentially barrel down on his lines. When it reaches a point in front of my beleagured center infantry platoons and my center main armor force Ill keep the center infantry in place and use the un touched left flank infantry to advance with their tanks and BMPs supported by a concurrent drive from my center armor on the NE objective.

I also plan to send some scouts - not real scouts mind you but say a team or two - to investigate the largely unexplored eastern portion of the map. It wouldnt have been impossible for Jammer to drive armor straight south from the NE objective and then orient it in ambush positions to strike at my armor advancing on the NE objective. If I didnt think of this or spot it that would be a disaster 3-4 Abrams getting an ambush drop on a large Russian force in movement would spell doom for my armor and put me in an akward position. However if I encounter armor over there I can simply pull armor back fron the center and using interior lines of communication trundle them over there and hit any ambush force - if it exists- from the front and back.

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Id be stretched to thin on a large map. I have eyes on where the enemy VP is. closer to my lines - no- as you would see theres a lot of forest and other nonsense. However Im not worried about it. I hace a very strong unmolested left flank force. My center armor is relatively untouched though the two infantry platoons took a beating.

See whats important here isnt the fact there might be US units there- its thr fact Im realizing there could be before Ive commited my center armor too much. The left flank is fine and too far and obstructed to be molested by any US units that rushed closer to my lines and hid there. Also theres a high chance its empty - it would have been a hell of a risk for Jammer to move troops there im the first few turns not knowing what I had there or where I really was attacking. However then again he could have moved men there when my smoke screens were everywhere and I wouldnt have seen.  Regardless if I encounter US troops there some application of artillery and then a massed armor attack from my setup area basically with my center armor supported by a lateral west to east drive from my left flank force would crush any opposition. Of this Im sure. In fact Im considering keeping the Tunguska in place and pulling back my right flank infantry plt and having them scout out the area in force. Because I dont want a one or two man scouting party to find a platoon of abrams with their a$$es pointed towards them and not be able to take advantage. It.d be utterly suprising to ambush the abrams waiting to ambush and kill a few with mere Russian infantry... if there are abrams there at all.

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Ok.  More of the same - 

First a view of an enemy .50 thats going to start getting hit by Tunguska next turn with a nice airburst explosion in the corner... also a view of the area I was concerned about a potential ambush by Jammer...


Second, a view of far right flank platoon and an aerial view of the area Im concerned about the ambush.  You can see the 'bay' formed by the forests - an excellent place to back some tanks up for flank and rear shots on an enemy force moving in to occupy the NE objective..


On my left flank where all has been quiet three platoons are leading my advance and near within ~100 meters of the NW VL.   155mm Arty is doing a prep mission laterally West to East (to my South to North advance http://imageshack.com/a/img540/1784/FY4d5K.png) and the teams are running up to hedgelines and buildings to spot enemy units  and wait for the arty to soften up any likely enemy units. Suddenly  I hear the distinctive crack of an American Barret .50 cal sniper rifle being fired.  I look around - replay - and see the results as one of my lead squads approaches a hedge...

Heres the team advancing..


And the results of a successful American sniper shot...


View of the action from the enemy lines in the center part of the battlefield...


Another shot from same vantage point but pointed towards my right flank a little more...



So I plan to scout out the possible ambush site. Find and kill the HATO dog sniper. And crush Jammer.


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On my left flank where all has been quiet three platoons are leading my advance and near within ~100 meters of the NW VL.   155mm Arty is doing a prep mission laterally West to East (to my South to North)

FY4d5K.png and the teams aret running up to hedgelines and buildings to spot enemy units  and wait for the arty to soften up any likely enemy units. Suddenly  I hear the distinctive crack of an American Barret .50 cal sniper rifle being fired. 

 fixed broken link i just noticed

Edited by Sublime
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My advance continues.

On my right flank a small scouting party made up of an MG team near the Western lip of the 'bay' is sitting and observing. Nothing so far - whilst an sniper team makes its way along the 'coast of the bay' looking for enemy armor in ambush positions.

In the center the level of combat has increased dramatically. Artillery wise that is - my mortars and howitzers continue to rain down fire, but I've noticed a huge increase in enemy mortar fire and my men have been paying for it.  Still, both center platoons have been ordered about 100 meters forward, while my right flank platoon is ordered back into the woods.

I continue to mercilessly pound every ID'd infantry position with several vehicles at once and it seems to really be laying waste to the US.

On my left flank the advance continue as well and I near the VL.  Some brief skirmishes resulted in several severely wounded/kia.s and a BMP2M was KO'd by a Javelin fired from somewhere to its east (my right flank)  However already my tanks and BMPs on my left are beginning to lay fire into enemy positions to their east and once the VL is secured will orient themselves to the East and drive down the main road and roll up his flank as it were.

A BMP also on my left flank took a right flank penetration, however Im guessing this was a sniper using a Barret as there were minimal subsystems damage, and it was only a single round. Some of my left flank platoons have come under artillery fire, theyre paying for it, but luckily the platoons to their immediate right aren't and the same with the immediate left. The follow on platoon behind them has been ordered to reroute to the left and follow the left most platoon into their advance in the VL. Odd enough as it seems for a Russian player at this point Im genuinely worried Jammer tried to pull off an infantry only US defense, in which case my victory will feel cheap because I know Ill never hear the end of it about how he would have won were it not for his precious Bradleys.

Also in the center Ive ordered the main body of my armor to advance from behind there man made cover (peoples homes) and advance into the line of fire.

Screenies to show whats going on, some of the action, and my move orders-

RIght Flank move orders


Center move orders


Left Flank move orders


Fear the power of the Tunguska - heres a live human trial on some capitalist HATO lackey dogs


And the results..


Another shot of Tunguska firing at other ground targets.  That 30mm stream is impressive.  Being on the other end of it must be horrifiying.


A view from end of last turn before orders are given - looking from my left flank towards the right


The ineffectual sniper shot on my BMP I mentioned


Another West to East view of the combat



Thats all for now - stay tuned, and keep your heads down!



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Nice Antaress =D

Post that in his defense of Orekhovsk scenario. Ill have screenies later. My advance continues.  Several straggler men from US teams or squads were definitely killed by Ainet rounds.  On my left flank the armor and men are reorienting towards the West and my center armor has come out of its proverbial spider hole to fight. Still no US armor. Starting to think he didnt buy any.   Steal the joy of victory from me!  Typical Western HATO puppet strategem!

Edited by Sublime
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Hes fast running out of room if you see the screens. and he's a pbem virgin. Ill be absolutely BS if I did all this planning and a DAR for an infantry only US defense that never had a hope of stopping a combined arms attack.  Any replies that 'oh if Id bought armor it would have..' are going to be promptly swatted aside with you could have and why didnt you.

Where the hell did the points go if he didnt? Im not seeing it. Somethings gotta be somewhere, but where?!  I have eyes on practically the whole map. MG team at the mouth of the tree bay, and a sniper team scouting the 'coast' of the tree bay.  Troops inside or within 50m of NW major VL.  Center VL has troops in it. Eyes on NE Major VL and troops advancing on it...

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"continue to mercilessly pound every ID'd infantry position with several vehicles at once and it seems to really be laying waste to the US." 

So you're using direct manual targeting? Or narrow arcs? My experience is units would take fire on Maybes, I have to manually direct target, which leaves me vulnerable to counter manoeuvre, or ambush. 

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True enough. However thats stinger reloads and I did admit I was wrong. Look at the map and plus I have screenies to add where Ive advanced further and he knocked out a bmp and two tanks with javelins that are now atomized.

But Abrams and Bradleys are a little less of a mystery than whether he can reload stingers... so where are they??? 

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