Knocked out Javelins

[Sublime]

First off I know nothing of programming. So I dont know how easy or possible this is.

But the best by far ATGM in the game is the Javelin, and its also the best US ATGM.  The best Russian ones are the Khriz and AT14.  Both the Russian ones can be knocked out. the Jav cannot, its operator can be killed but it can be scavenged by other US troops.  Id like to see - if possible this weapon to be rendered knocked out.  It only seems fair, and I know the game isnt about fairness but the Javelin unit is big, and it also requires the CLU unit.  Now in a PBEM I knocked out a Javelin team, first by computer directed fire, then 45 seconds of Ainet airburst over the target.  IRL that CLU unit and the Javelin launcher would almost certainly be damaged beyond use.  In game, it'll soon be scrounged by my opponent. Thoughts?

[womble]

Well, it's certainly possible for equipment to fail to be Buddy Aided in the WW2 titles, and that's considered to include the abstraction of the weapon being damaged beyond immediate use. I'm sure that's so in BS too. I'm nearly as sure that the only thing that will damage the equipment carried by a grunt is the salvo that rendered him a casualty. Or, maybe any further incoming which turns him from "red cross base wounded" to "black skull and crossbones base dead", which I understand has been reported as being a possibility, though I've never noticed it. Or it's just a roll at the time of BA, and it's completely abstracted. It's also a pretty low chance, IME. It would be nice if the equipment was considered as a separate target for damage, but I don't believe it is, and making it so would be a significant programming task. "Crew-served weapons" are treated entirely differently to Buddy-Aidable assets.

[Sublime]

Well the first salvo killed one member. The next shot in 45 seconds (about 8 airburst 125mm rounds over their bodies) killed the next team member.  Perhaps It could be dialed up or made less likely to salvage if the equipment has a lot of parts it needs to work.  Thatd pretty much make it exclusive to the javelin...

[John Kettler]

Sublime,

 

I'm with you on this. There isn't a tough component anywhere in that system that I know of, and IMO 8 ABs should've turned the thing into confetti. Blast alone would've sufficed, let alone a presumably, given VL HOB, very dense frag pattern. In fact, I think one Ainet detonation would probably be enough. TOW is more rugged, but I seriously doubt it would be, in an aggregate, any more likely to survive an Ainet AB, for the projectile is such an overmatch for the structure of the weapon, which has a similar sight, and if TOW 2B Aero, also a directional RF system. You may recall the initial M113 TOW. 

 

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/1288791760/M113+TOW

 

Army testing found the thing simply was not survivable as fielded vs  so TOW-CAP was fielded as an expedient interim solution pending deployment of the M901 ITV.

 

http://s860.photobucket.com/user/Delta42_2010/media/M113%20TOW%20Cap/TOWCAP2_zpsff2bd806.jpg.html

 

There is a very nice discussion of the TOW-CAP fabric armor system, and plots of its effectiveness vs various threats, on page 4 of this Field Artillery Journal.

 

If that was the case vs VT artillery with, say, a HOB of 18 meters (design requirement for original Bradley design vs 152), then how much less likely is survival vs a 3 meter HOB, though the projectile is smaller and lighter?

 

I don't know how the "man was hit but did the weapon survive?" logic works in the AI, but I do know there's a world of difference among a ball bullet strike on a hardened steel firearm, mortar frag, much harder hitting artillery frag and either blast or grag and blast, with the frag and the blast likely to be simultaneous in the Ainet case we're considering. Even if we postulate the detonation neither holes nor blows apart the Javelin launcher, particularly the mission critical CLU (as opposed to the replaceable missile), the translational forces involved could easily fling the Javelin launcher some distance away and bang it up (unknown accuracy degrade in any of several components) or simply render it useless. In my QB vs BadgerDog, I had an Ainet go off directly above one of his guys--who survived and didn't so much as duck. Don't know about you, but a rate that episode as past miraculous.

 

Summing up, I think you raised an excellent point, and I hope BFC looks into this, since all three nations have shoulder fired ATGMs available, and everyone has tripod mounted ATGMs as standard items.

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

[Sublime]

Everyone except the US if Im not mistaken which is why I feel this is an important issue.  The US AFAIK does NOT have any tripod mounted ATGMs whereas everyone else does and they also happen to be their best ATGMs.

Of course the US has AT4s, but I mean buyable AT weapons of course.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Sublime

[Vanir Ausf B]

There is a portable version of the TOW in the game.

[Lethaface]

Sublime, we both now I'm gonna harvest that Javelin and use it to KO your last vehicle

[Sublime]

psssh. it may get harvested by abrams crewmembers who proceed to shoot it and have it hit an iron tree. I wasnt aware there was a portable ToW in game Not buyable though right? As in you have to get the crew to take the weapon with em?