Wiggum15 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Then please for all that is holy, go play THAT game and leave us in peace.Look, and THAT is the flawed attitude you guys have.Someone complains about CMx2 or criticize it or BFC.Your reaction -> "Play another game" or "Develop your own game"No wonder BFC did not move forward in the last 7 years, you guys deserve CMx2 as it is...stop being rude to everyone who does criticize CMx2 or BFC ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Please, can we stop this discussion? I dont not see it leading anywhere, both side are just digging their trenches deeper and deeper. Wiggum why dont you write a ticket at helpdesk or a PM directly to Steve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 no actually I do not say that about everyone who criticizes the game. I rarely say that. I reserve that for people who are NEVER going to be happy. The rudeness starts with your attitude. It gets returned in kind. Imagine that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum15 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Wiggum why dont you write a ticket at helpdesk or a PM directly to Steve?...and what should i achieve with that ?I wrote PM's to Steve and ChrisND an never got a response.Helpdesk is more for support and not to discuss the game...thats something that belongs into the forums. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum15 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 (edited) no actually I do not say that about everyone who criticizes the game. I rarely say that. I reserve that for people who are NEVER going to be happy.The rudeness starts with your attitude. It gets returned in kind. Imagine that.There is NO wargame that makes me 100% happy, they all have flaws.But...i have a special love for CM and cant accept the fact that it has been in a standstill since 8 years now.CMx1 was great, i remember playing the tutorial mission the first time and i was blown away. CMAK and OFP made me a wargame fan and got me interested in the military (iam active infantry soldier since many years) !I bought CMx2 and was disappointed but saw the potential...and now 8 years later and its still the same flaws and shortcomings...So many "new" games and all just seem like a texture mod with some new units. Edited July 4, 2015 by Wiggum15 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 ...and what should i achieve with that ? What do you achieve here except mischief? None of us here can directly influence the development of CM, only Steve and other BFC employees can, so the rational thing to do would be to take your suggestions for improvement to them and not to us, who we here are condemmed to be nothing but mere observers of what BFC does or doesnt. I wrote PM's to Steve and ChrisND an never got a response. That does not necessarily mean that they havent read your messages or considered your suggestions. But their lack of repsonse to your suggestions could easily be interpreted as disinterest or disagreement with you, which would settle the case: the answear is "no". Be mature and accept that, it' s their company, their game and their financial risk if they pursue an economical strategy that will lead them nowhere as you say. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Well isnt 4th July an important holyday in the US, with lot of fireworks and parades and stuff? I suggest you meet some friends, drink some beer and blow up some firerworks. EDIT: And dont forget the BBQ! Oh, that BBQ is hard-coded for 4:30. Beer in hand not later than 4:31. Fireworks? I'm actually the neighborhood fireworks guy. My motto is "bigger is better" and, "if no one in the crowd screams and runs away, you're not doing it right". Despite that, the folks keep ignoring my "stay back" line (ooh, insert obama "red line" comment here! ), and it can get exciting. A few years back, a big cluster pack blew out a side panel and directed the rest of the "katyusha" (1" mortars) right at the crowd. THAT was fun! I've been gradually weaning back, but everyone likes a bit of adrenaline on the 4th. what the hell Ken, it is my birthday, I expect your first order of business is to lift a glass of something tasty and toast it. The rest of that stuff you should delegate. To Wiggum15. He seems to have an unlimited power to accomplish things we mortals can only dream about. Oh and regarding that water, could you send it our way. the state is a bit short. The water: you know, after the first 340 cubic feet, it's kind of hard to get the inside any wetter. 2" line and a 2 horsepower pump. (It's listed with the town's firefighters as an auxiliary firefighting pumping system for the neighborhood ). Tell your state's Hollywood A-listers to bottle some up and ship it to hoi polloi. I will, indeed, hoist one for your birthday. My congratulations to your mother for targeting today's date. As for the point of my post...it seems to've missed it's target. Shrug. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 As for the point of my post...it seems to've missed it's target. Shrug. Well what do you expect? You went bear hunting with a BB rifle. It didn't even feel it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I'm at home today. Tomorrow, I leave on a 6 day trip. My pool pump blew a 2" line, <snip> According to the Wiggum15 school of thought, I should just get it all done. LOL that was hilarious. Wow and my list was clean the pool and get some photo proofs out to customers. That I can get done without any help from @Wiggum15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 The rudeness starts with your attitude. It gets returned in kind. Imagine that. I find it mind boggling that this seems to escape people. Or I guess the other interpretation is they like conflict and seek to cause it for their enjoyment. That is pretty much the definition of trolling. The crazy thing is it is so clear that some people are so far out in left field that they think their opinions are some how better than others and or refuse the listen to facts instead insisting on holding ludicrous positions while at the same time totally missing the criticism and requests for improvements that others have made staking out the silly claim that they are the one and true critic and others are just yes men. It really is simple. Read and understand before you open your mouths - that way you will see that many of the requests you have made are also being made by others - often the same ones you want to battle with. When you do decide to make a suggestion make it respectfully instead of like a jerk. Then you might get a discussion going instead of push back. Make sure you keep in mind that you might actually be wrong about something - that way you can actually participate in the discussion instead of clinging to not quite right ideas. Oh who am I kidding these guys are not going to be able to get past step one. Actually @agusto is right we should probably stop now. I'll stop reading this thread. Even though the perpetrators are on my ignore list I still find enough wrong just reading the parts of their posts that others quote 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 sburke, Happy birthday! Quite the to do list you've got there, and I'm very glad the flood wasn't into your house, but the pool house. As for fireworks, I imagine the neighbors would be hugely impressed by a flame fougasse. Who wouldn't with a recipe that involves a 55 gal. drum, diesel, a block of C4 and a roll of concertina barb wire? That is a Nam era version, but the fougasse itself is centuries old, which I didn't know. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerMike Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Late to the party. I am also a Beta and qualify as a genuine fanboiiii I guess With that out of the way, here come my 2 cents. Wiggum15, your critical attitude towards the game is probably because you are passionate about it. You want it to be better than it is right now, even though the game is already the best of it's kind (IMHO). It is okay to be critical, but you are overdoing it. Too many hyperboles. The game has significantly evolved since 2007. The difference with SF is huge IMHO. And it is still evolving. Sure, I too wish the rate at which things progress was higher. But this is a small company. Be realistic. I feel we are glad to have this game at all. Becoming a Beta means you get a lot more understanding of how much work a game like this is. I think BFC are doing a great job and I stand in awe at some of the Beta's and their contribution. Without the help of many around here, this game would probably not even be feasible. Enjoy the game for what it is Wiggum15. It IS a superb game. And it WILL get better all the time, bit by bit. Be critical, sure, but just don't over do it. We will all be around here for long time hopefully, so we might as well enjoy our time here. Edited July 5, 2015 by PanzerMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum15 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) The game has significantly evolved since 2007. The difference with SF is huge IMHO. And it is still evolving.And here i disagree.The game has by no means "significantly" evolved since 2007.All we got are bug fixes, some additional but minor features and balance tweaks.After all this discussion here i did a test:I showed a friend (ordinary hobby gamer, 33 years old) SF and then CMBS (he first thought CMBS was a mod for SF or the other way around). I asked him what he thinks how many "updates" are between both titles.His answer was "maybe 2 or three".Then i told him that between both games are no less then 8 years...he was like WTF really...?!- 8 years and we still have no infantry formations (hail to the conga line)- 8 years and the map still floats in nirvana- 8 years and vehicles still dont know what a road is- 8 years and the TacAI is still as bad- 8 years and we still do not have SOP's for the action phase- 8 years and we still have the same graphic glitches- 8 years and still no flares or NV mode for night combat- 8 years and the enemy halftruck still sits there while my mortars shoot at it till its finally hit- 8 years and the UI is still the same (which is not a good thing)- 8 years and still no TCP/IP Multiplayer... Edited July 5, 2015 by Wiggum15 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerMike Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 The game has by no means "significantly" evolved since 2007. All we got are bug fixes, some additional but minor features and balance tweaks. ... And here I disagree. The game has improved greatly. You are listing stuff that has not made it in (yet), but you do not list the stuff that did make it in. I could make a long list of improvements that made it in over the years, but I will not. I will only repeat what I said earlier: this is a small company, be realistic. Meanwhile, enjoy the game or even better, contribute in some meaningful way if you can. I try to, just for the good of the community. All the best to you Wiggum15! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum15 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 And here I disagree. The game has improved greatly.You are listing stuff that has not made it in (yet), but you do not list the stuff that did make it in.I could make a long list of improvements that made it in over the years, but I will not.Please tell me, what game changing or major features got added since SF ?Target Armor Arc ? (A basic CMx1 feature) ?Tank riders (a CMx1 feature and only available in RT) ?Flame weapons (a CMx1 feature and only available in RT) ?Hit decals (more of a graphic enhancement) ?AA fire ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerMike Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 You know all the improvements Wiggum15, since you have played CM for years. No need for lists. But it seems in your book, all these changes are not significant (enough). I am not going to try to convince you that they are. You are entitled to your own opinion. Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that. It's too hot here already, sheesh a genuine heatwave here in Holland. I bet it is pretty hot in Germany right now too? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieme(ITA) Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Well, not an easy task to make a list without SF installed anymore. But IIRC there's a Whole bounch: what comes to my mind are the independent buildings and quite a number of options for the walls/fences, both in terms of type and shapes available.Many more flavor objects types have been introduced in later games too. Also, UAV, APS, precision arty, amphibious vehicles, electronic warfare, are all interesting additions. In terms of graphics, normal maps for vehicles, troops and buildings were not available to CMSF, as well as the Shaders. Flame weapons are available also to CM Normandy with the vehicle pack if I am not mistaken. Edited July 5, 2015 by Kieme(ITA) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Wiggum15 I will only repeat what I said earlier: this is a small company, be realistic. This is something that you seem to be completally unable to accept ! They do not have 250 people on the payroll. Besides engine updates BFC are- and have always been under great presure to deliver new theatres, campaigns and scenarios for their customers to play. Making these takes time... Besides the Bulge game we the comunity are also asking for modules and scenariopacks for CMBN, CMFI and CMRT to be released as soon as possible...preferably today. Even CMBS have seen some requests for additional content already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum15 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Thats correct but BFC has shown no interest in actually improving the engine or fixing fundamental flaws.They were the ones who started the whole "DLC after DLC" thing.They could have gone the other way which most likely would mean less sales/income for a year or two.But maybe the CMx2 engine can not be "fixed" anyway and BFC knows that, thats why they choose to release texture/scenario packs.I see no initiative from them like a kickstarter campaign for a new engine "CMx3". Then they could make money while still in development through early access. Edited July 5, 2015 by Wiggum15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagler Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Graphics can take a back seat. We need proper multiplayer framework and a public lobby. Cooperative play would be nice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieme(ITA) Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) I am also one of those who could live years with the actual graphics (maybe with some little additions, such as the shaders had been), and would prefer something like a revamped multiplayer. Edited July 5, 2015 by Kieme(ITA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum15 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I dont have anything against the graphics besides that they look to comic like and the awful "floating in nirvana" map thing.+ BFC should finally fix all the graphic glitches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 That'd be pretty cool. I had members lined up to act for the Brits in CMSF (twice) but they always ended up backing out. I did start some preliminary files for CMBS....I have a younger cousin and he said he'd be willing to do some acting and possibly some of his buddies, so I am hoping that I'll be able to get them into it and update CMBN while I am at it. Can you recommend me a good (free) sound editing software? I am thinking about first doing the german artillery call voices, one of them just sounds awkward to me and i have wished for a replacement for a long time, and it' s also going to be a test of my abilities as voice actor. I need a programm that lets me do to a recorded sound file what the equalizer of my MP-3 player does to my music and then save it, you know what i mean? BTW i also got my hands on the source files of Red Orchestra 1, we could recycle some of those sound files. RO1 had excellent german voice acting, really, and it would add a bit of variety to use to different voices. There are also russian voice in case you need them, but i think i am only going to give the german vocies a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerMike Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Wiggum15 This is something that you seem to be completally unable to accept ! They do not have 250 people on the payroll. Besides engine updates BFC are- and have always been under great presure to deliver new theatres, campaigns and scenarios for their customers to play. Making these takes time... Engine improvements and artwork is a lot of work, but making content is also a ton of work. Anybody who has made a scenario knows this. And I mean a scenario with full bells and whistles, fit for publishing. Maps, OOBs, briefing text, briefing graphics, playtesting (!!!), etc. The whole shabang. Many of this content is made by volunteers and playtested by volunteers. They are willing to dedicate their time and talents to make this game shine together with the small staff of BFC. To dismiss games like CMRT, CMBS and the upcoming Bulge title as just trivial texture/scenario packs... This is beyond me. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Tastes great! Less filling! Tastes great! Less filling! I loved the scientific test and proof. I asked a 33 year old. He agreed with me. I must be right. A truly scientific test would require 2 33 year olds, a dachshund, 4 nanny goats and a camel. And I will bet you didn't even skew that discussion a tiny bit to make sure he only looked at and understood what you wanted him to. Did you show him the map overlay function in the editor? I on the other hand went out and found 5 33 year olds, 2 dachshunds, 6 nanny goats and no less then 3 camels. My results 2 33 year olds just wanted to drink my beer 1 33 year old was a plant by ken in the hopes we had a pbem running he could see what I was up to 1 33 year old only wanted to play minecraft 1 33 year old agreed with me, then I found out he was only doing so cause he figured to get the beer the other 2 had not gotten to. The dachshunds dug holes in my yard. Still trying to see if that means anything relative to the game, maybe a comment about foxholes The nanny goats stripped what was left of my lawn for what it is worth I had a terrain mod in. The camels spit on me after pissing all over my lawn, see above. There you have it, proof that you are wrong. Edited July 5, 2015 by sburke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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