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Review of Black Sea at Armchairgeneral.com


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LOL yeah but compare the time it takes to get a poster on a wall in CM!  :D

 

Seriously though, yeah CM is not about becoming CIv 2or something.  There are a few things I'd like additional, but I don't need to have 1st person shooter map making.  For one, those maps tend to be in reality very small.  I have a 1km square map that I would have a heart attack considering doing this way.  Still it is pretty cool.

 

As long as you arent builduing urban terrain, you can make large maps relatively fast in the Hamme Editor. It' s not as comfortable for designing landscapes as the Far Cry Editor Tank Hunter showed us or the CM Editor we all know, but it' s entirely possible to do without dieing of old age before the map is finished.

 

What does the roof of that building look like? Can I get there? How about getting INSIDE those buildings to look out the window? Why are they totally bulletproof? Etc. It seemed to take a LOT of effort to make two walls.

 

That is all up to you in the Hammer Editor. Want a roof? Make one. The interior of a building? Make one. Destructible buildings? Well they are nasty to make because you have to define how they are destroyed and what happens if they are destroyed but it' s doable.

 

The end result looked really good...but. But the time and effort to build what, in effect, is just a wall, was out of all proportion to what is needed. This really showed how good the CM editor is by comparison.

the video.

 

Yeah the CM Editor isnt bad, but it' s quite simple and hence limited. What happens if i dont like the way the roof of Modular Building 2 looks like? Nothing, there is nothing i can do about it. The CM Editor is designed to be useable by each and everyone without having to learn anything, but this simplicity comes at the cost of versatility. I like the CM Editor, but that' s just the way it is.

 

BTW the initial discussion wasnt about compareing the CM Editor with the Hammer Editor. That' s something you brought up. I just wanted to show the Hammer as technical demonstration.

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What you are forgetting is that the wall you get to place down in the CM editor had to be modelled in the first place and coded to be identifiable in the game as, e.g., impassable to infantry and bullets but destroyable by big tracked vehicles and explosives. The effort that you see in the video also had to be put in to make the assets you can use in the CM editor. The main difference is that those early stages are closed to CM modders.

 

In the Valve editor, by opening up more of those initial stages it adds complexity but increases versatility. I also wouldn't be surprised that once you have made your wall in the Valve editor you can save it and load it, duplicate it, edit it, etc. and then place it just as one does in the CM editor.

I think c3k's point was it is far too much work for us.  Considering how little the community as a whole produces already, that is a very valid point.  I do like making maps, but I don't know how many I would do with that much effort required.  I own both Far Cry 3 and 4.  I have made a partial map in each.  In CM I have a bunch, one being a 1 km square urban map with a lot of detail.

 

Non urban terrain is much easier.

 

I think the general consensus we can pretty much all agree on is the kind of tools we would need to make much more detailed maps would cut down even further on the community provided maps as well as the time it would take to see product come from BF.

 

That doesn't mean however I can't wish there was both an easy and highly detailed editor.....just so long as I understand the likelihood of that happening is pretty low.

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I've said it before, the main impediment to making maps is PEOPLE TRY TOO HARD! The map maker is a easy or as difficult as you make it, yourself. A road, a couple houses, a hill and a lake. As easy as 1-2-3-4. If you instead set out to meticulously recreate 4 sq km of metro Mariupol down to the park benches, yeh - map making is difficult.

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I would say not that it is difficult.  It is just time consuming.

 

What helps is to just take it in bits and pieces.  I have been slowly expanding Venafro since CM:GL was released. 

 

You can easily make a small map that is also time consuming if you really get into the details, but those are the maps I enjoy the most.

 

Hell I still remember the first time I noticed that in Bois de Baugin, JonS had inserted flavor items inside buildings.  It was pretty cool.

Edited by sburke
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I don't know how difficult would be to implement some kind of improvements to the editor and by the way several ideas were scattered in the last years. Once again I put mine on the line: an instrument that lets us save a given size of squares (5x5, 10x10 etc.), with all their elements (terrain, elevation, structures, flavor objects. This would speed things up extremely. Just imagine: you can create a few farms, save each of them, then place them down on any new map, same could go for entire small villages, or a well designed forest etc. etc.

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I have put sacks, boxes and farm equipment inside barns. We need to request couches and book shelves though :)

As well as beds, dining tables, and desks. :D   Of course we would need interior walls as well and the ability to place objects on any floor above the first floor (which isn't currently possible in case anyone doesn't know that).  Yep, I could certainly use this while recreating the entire towns of (Censored) and (Censored). :o  I might not finish before next January, but at least it will look great when it's done. :P

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