Timescale for Eastern front CMx3 or CMx4?

[ASL Veteran]

Who says I don't? Excuse me for having an opinion.

Yes, it would be nice to have a perfect game, but when it comes to software I don't think that's really achievable because there will always be something that could be added that someone out there wants to see.  Even if you were able to get every feature that every person wants into a piece of computer software there is always the issue of the changing computer technology itself.  Eventually even that perfect game will become so outdated that computers won't be able to run the software anymore.  So really, it is nice to have a dream of having a complete and finalized game, but when you are dealing with computer software I don't think that is a dream that can be realized.

[J Bennett]

Yes, it would be nice to have a perfect game, but when it comes to software I don't think that's really achievable because there will always be something that could be added that someone out there wants to see.  Even if you were able to get every feature that every person wants into a piece of computer software there is always the issue of the changing computer technology itself.  Eventually even that perfect game will become so outdated that computers won't be able to run the software anymore.  So really, it is nice to have a dream of having a complete and finalized game, but when you are dealing with computer software I don't think that is a dream that can be realized.

 

 Thank you ASL veteran for a sensible, civil , and mature reply.  Well mannered.. Unlike the other two posters. I do not mind my opinion being challenged at all but  why do  some people insist on being ill mannered and distorting  things ?. Especially the gentleman that suggested I get tactics II, one of the first Avalon Hill board games I believe. When I even said in my post that I like Advanced Squad Leader; a far far mor complex game system as you know.  Maybe he is taking too many bong or blunt hits   LOL. ..  And as for the  other gentleman that likes the little putdowns like suggesting I don;t have any logic. Well I hope that made him feel better.

Edited June 12, 2015 by J Bennett

[sburke]

Thank you ASL veteran for a sensible, civil , and mature reply.  Well mannered.. Unlike the other two posters. I do not mind my opinion being challenged at all but  why do  some people insist on being ill mannered and distorting  things ?. Especially the gentleman that suggested I get tactics II, one of the first Avalon Hill board games I believe. When I even said in my post that I like Advanced Squad Leader; a far far mor complex game system as you know.  Maybe he is taking too many bong or blunt hits   LOL. ..  And as for the  other gentleman that likes the little putdowns like suggesting I don;t have any logic. Well I hope that made him feel better.

Nah didn't make me feel better, but you have to admit saying essentially that you want to see BF stop developing CMBN for example so you can have a finished product is pretty out there enough that you are gonna get that kind of feedback. If you can not process through how your suggestions may be perceived, then yeah I agree with Mord, don't say them publicly. Honestly this is one of the oddest requests I have seen on these boards. We took your statement to it's logical conclusion. Maybe that sucks, but you were the one that tossed the idea out there.

[kevinkin]

As "impatient" as I am for 41 and 42 eastern front I hope the series never stops evolving utilizing the best the electronic technology brings us in the future. I would be happy to trade a period module for the next high tech engine (what ever that may look like). I thought the title of the thread referred to the next game scale which would be a more interesting discussion.

Kevin

[ChrisND]

I was sure I'd read somewhere that CMRT was going to be upgraded to CMx3 and that it was going to be a paid upgrade so I held off my purchase. Is that still on the roadmap?  Or was I mistaken and should I just go ahead and purchase the existing product?

 

 

I think there's some confusion with terminology here. Combat Mission: Red Thunder is not going to be upgraded to CMx3. CMx3 would be a whole new game with a brand new engine, like the transition from CMx1 to CMx2. The only major shared similarities would be the basic design philosophy and the title "Combat Mission". Perhaps/probably a new Eastern Front title will be made for CMx3, but that's too far in the uncertain future for me to be making any promises one way or the other.

 

Now, engine versions of CMx2 are another matter. This is what the Upgrade system does. Fortunately for you, Red Thunder is already CMx2 Engine 3.0, and has been since the start.

[J Bennett]

Nah didn't make me feel better, but you have to admit saying essentially that you want to see BF stop developing CMBN for example so you can have a finished product is pretty out there enough that you are gonna get that kind of feedback. If you can not process through how your suggestions may be perceived, then yeah I agree with Mord, don't say them publicly. Honestly this is one of the oddest requests I have seen on these boards. We took your statement to it's logical conclusion. Maybe that sucks, but you were the one that tossed the idea out there.

Ok I will play your little game a bit longer.  No that is not what I was “essentially saying” and if you had read all of my post you would know it.   I process how well my “suggestions” are perceived as well as you do.  Such a lame put down. There is no excuse for rudeness or insulting someone’s intelligence no matter how much you disagree with their OPINION. It was an opinion, not a suggestion. I also said, “Don’t get me wrong, I love the CM games”. Selective reading on yours and Mr. Mords part.  Oh and I also referred to the CMx series as a “classic:” Yeah that was real threat to your beloved game alright.  Because I happen to love it too and said so. How strange ASL Veteran took the high road and used some tact when answering my post.  A little tact! What a radical thought.  My point was I would like to see a “Final Version” of this game system in my lifetime. How that wish is “pretty out there” in your words is hard to understand.   So tell me how long would you like the CMx engines to be continued? Surely even you and Mr. Mord can see CMx cannot continue to evolve forever. Man! It’s almost as if you think of it as a RELIGION and not a GAME. Anyway, go ahead and criticize my postings but how about using some maturity and tactfulness and stop the masked insults. I challenge you to try.  

Edited June 12, 2015 by J Bennett

[Mord]

 

 

 

Mr. Mord.

[J Bennett]

As "impatient" as I am for 41 and 42 eastern front I hope the series never stops evolving utilizing the best the electronic technology brings us in the future. I would be happy to trade a period module for the next high tech engine (what ever that may look like). I thought the title of the thread referred to the next game scale which would be a more interesting discussion.

Kevin

 

   Even though I disagree with you , I respect what you're saying. (Notice Sburke I am being tactful. Its not that hard.) But just consider this for a moment. With Occulus rift,  and all the wonders in technology what if at some point  Battlefront said the final version of Combat Mission will be CMx3.

 "We feel we can make a new computer wargame based on newest technologies" And they come up with a new catchy title for it and it injects new life into the WW2 tactical wargame genre. Would that be such a bad thing?

Edited June 12, 2015 by J Bennett

[J Bennett]

 

 

Mr. Mord.

 

 An intelligent suggestion, Mord. (Or Mr. Mord if you prefer)

[sburke]

Ok I will play your little game a bit longer.  No that is not what I was “essentially saying” and if you had read all of my post you would know it.   I process how well my “suggestions” are perceived as well as you do.  Such a lame put down. There is no excuse for rudeness or insulting someone’s intelligence no matter how much you disagree with their OPINION. It was an opinion, not a suggestion. I also said, “Don’t get me wrong, I love the CM games”. Selective reading on yours and Mr. Mords part.  Oh and I also referred to the CMx series as a “classic:” Yeah that was real threat to your beloved game alright.  Because I happen to love it too and said so. How strange ASL Veteran took the high road and used some tact when answering my post.  A little tact! What a radical thought.  My point was I would like to see a “Final Version” of this game system in my lifetime. How that wish is “pretty out there” in your words is hard to understand.   So tell me how long would you like the CMx engines to be continued? Surely even you and Mr. Mord can see CMx cannot continue to evolve forever. Man! It’s almost as if you think of it as a RELIGION and not a GAME. Anyway, go ahead and criticize my postings but how about using some maturity and tactfulness and stop the masked insults. I challenge you to try.  

dude if you think I am gonna cater to your need to be coddled, not gonna happen.  I did not insult you.  I simply pointed out with an attempt at humor which you missed focusing on tactics II - the joke.  You can stop upgrading CM anytime you wish.  You could have stuck with CMBN 1.0 or 2.0, but just like the rest of us, you want those additional features.  You aren't "threatening my beloved game" whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.  I never said you didn't like CM, I never said you shouldn't play CMx2.  I reacted to what is a frankly silly idea.  (hold onto that thought, I am not calling you silly).

 

Gee BF when are you going to stop developing this product so I can have a CM final version (because I can't enjoy it as it develops).

 

When I say dumb a** s**t (which I know I do on occasion) I would hope folks would slap me upside my head (verbally) and say, hey burke, that is just dumb.  Then I could look at it and say "umm yeah it was okay, moving right along".  I don't worry about getting my ego bruised and ask, gee can you be a little nicer at pointing out I was a dumba**.  It is part of being a member of a community of people who are intelligent and frequently witty and being able to accept their good natured ribbing.  It is a social thing that if you can let go a bit can be quite fun, even if you are on the receiving end.  Stop worrying so much about being tactful and have some fun.  Life is short.

 

I have this vision of getting to retirement, having all the time in the world to play CM or whatever else I want to do and then getting hit by a bus.  I really hope retirement turns out the way I hope, but I am not putting my enjoyment of life off till then. That is the silly I was referring to.  Life is now.  Stop worrying about when CMBN might be at a final version, it is likely going to be years from now if we are lucky, enjoy what you have and embrace it.

 

Note I did not call you a dumba**, I was referring to my own behavior.

 

In answer to your question I hope they never stop developing the game.  Honestly I have no idea why anyone would want that.  I am not trying to be dense, I just do not get what the upside of ending development is.  It isn't about being a religion (I really do not understand these references).

 

Just a couple examples

1 This one came from Steve - wouldn't it be cool if CM had the capability for an AT team to lean around a building and not have to march into the middle of a street to shoot at a tank?

2. Wouldn't it be cool if a save game could be opened in the editor and saved as a new battle to allow for better control of HTH campaigns?

3.  Better animations, less collision issues.

4. Tanks having limits to their elevation for better portrayal of urban combat

5 Molotovs

 

My list is probably endless.  Why would I say, nah let's just stop there and not add anything else.  Did you ever wonder why any thread that is a "wish list" seems to run on forever and no one EVER says nah, let's just stop now and have a final engine version. 

 

oh and frankly you have not been very tactful either.  You instead have resorted to those same old tired phrases that usually include being called a fanboi.  Credit to you for not using that one. 

[Mord]

   Even though I disagree with you , I respect what you're saying. (Notice Sburke I am being tactful. Its not that hard.) But just consider this for a moment. With Occulus rift,  and all the wonders in technology what if at some point  Battlefront said the final version of Combat Mission will be CMx3.

 "We feel we can make a new computer wargame based on newest technologies" And they come up with a new catchy title for it and it injects new life into the WW2 tactical wargame genre. Would that be such a bad thing?

 

That's basically what kevin is saying, without the title change. I'd rather see this whole engine evolve into a new engine (if that is even possible) than have to start from scratch and wait 7 years to get back to this point. But yeah, eventually CMX2 will come to a close. I'll be on board for whatever they make as long as they don't cut WEGO or dumb it down.

 

I doubt they'll ever drop the name though. Besides it being a known "brand" it's a damned cool name, there are only a few out there that don't sound stupid, Close Combat & Fire Fight being some of the better ones. The CM name covers land warfare nicely, without being too specific nor too vague.

 

 

 

Mord.

[J Bennett]

d

I have this vision of getting to retirement, having all the time in the world to play CM or whatever else I want to do and then getting hit by a bus.  I really hope retirement turns out the way I hope, but I am not putting my enjoyment of life off till then. That is the silly I was referring to.  Life is now.  Stop worrying about when CMBN might be at a final version, it is likely going to be years from now if we are lucky, enjoy what you have and embrace it.

 

Note I did not call you a dumba**, I was referring to my own behavior.

 

In answer to your question I hope they never stop developing the game.  Honestly I have no idea why anyone would want that.  I am not trying to be dense, I just do not get what the upside of ending development is.  It isn't about being a religion (I really do not understand these references).

 

Just a couple examples

1 This one came from Steve - wouldn't it be cool if CM had the capability for an AT team to lean around a building and not have to march into the middle of a street to shoot at a tank?

2. Wouldn't it be cool if a save game could be opened in the editor and saved as a new battle to allow for better control of HTH campaigns?

3.  Better animations, less collision issues.

4. Tanks having limits to their elevation for better portrayal of urban combat

5 Molotovs

 

My list is probably endless.  Why would I say, nah let's just stop there and not add anything else.  Did you ever wonder why any thread that is a "wish list" seems to run on forever and no one EVER says nah, let's just stop now and have a final engine version. 

 

oh and frankly you have not been very tactful either.  You instead have resorted to those same old tired phrases that usually include being called a fanboi.  Credit to you for not using that one. 

 

   Thanks for taking the time to post all that. I still disagree on a few things with you but thats life. We can't see facial expressions or body language or voice inflections in this medium so things are easily misunderstood. If you thought I was untactful I apologize, I did refer to you as a "gentleman" at least.

I did like your wish lists and vision for the game. ANd your answer to my question was actually pretty good. Maybe with enough good points I might even change my mind, I know I know you don;t coddle.

[sburke]

LOL yeah that is one thing I genuinely hate on the internet.  For all it's hype, it is a lousy communications medium.  Humor is really difficult to project, especially if you are just poking at someone in jest.

 

If everybody always agreed about everything this would be a stunningly boring place.  That actually sounds like a premise for a twilight zone episode, but the episode would itself be boring.

 

Remember one thing from this.  You argued with a guy with a doody hat on his head.  Now how do you feel? 

 

edit, I guess I shouldn't blame the internet.  The medium is text - it could just as easily been video on the net....grumble grumble new technology hrrumph

Edited June 13, 2015 by sburke

[LukeFF]

On another gaming forum I read, someone posted something very simple but very wise: enjoy the game for what it is, not what you want it to be. 

[A Canadian Cat]

On another gaming forum I read, someone posted something very simple but very wise: enjoy the game for what it is, not what you want it to be. 

 

That sounds like something @sburke or @slysniper could have written here.  Maybe they just used more words.

[c3k]

Ahh, Tactics II. THAT was a game. I bought a SECOND one so I could expand my forces. And, with my trusty medium Bic ballpoint (blue), I drew SS (pink forces) and elite Blue forces. My own game editor.

 

The island made all the difference.

[George MC]

LOL yeah that is one thing I genuinely hate on the internet.  For all it's hype, it is a lousy communications medium.  Humor is really difficult to project, especially if you are just poking at someone in jest.

 

If everybody always agreed about everything this would be a stunningly boring place.  That actually sounds like a premise for a twilight zone episode, but the episode would itself be boring.

 

Remember one thing from this.  You argued with a guy with a doody hat on his head.  Now how do you feel? 

 

edit, I guess I shouldn't blame the internet.  The medium is text - it could just as easily been video on the net....grumble grumble new technology hrrumph

I think  you've done pretty well with modern media/technology. How long did it take for you to realise your crayons would not work on the monitor screen? 

 

He! I even laughed at my own funny...

[sburke]

That sounds like something @sburke or @slysniper could have written here. Maybe they just used more words.

This is the second time in as many days I have been accused of being wise... oh wait perhaps you meant to put the emphasis on simple....

 

Ahh, Tactics II. THAT was a game. I bought a SECOND one so I could expand my forces. And, with my trusty medium Bic ballpoint (blue), I drew SS (pink forces) and elite Blue forces. My own game editor.

The island made all the difference.

So you were an early modder?

 

I think  you've done pretty well with modern media/technology. How long did it take for you to realise your crayons would not work on the monitor screen? 

 

He! I even laughed at my own funny...

George, I am confused. Thank you for the compliment, but the part following seems to imply crayons don't work. How else would you highlight stuff?

[George MC]

George, I am confused. Thank you for the compliment, but the part following seems to imply crayons don't work. How else would you highlight stuff?

Come, come sburke...Crayons are so 20th Century. I use a highlighter. It's the latest modern innovation you know. You so must keep up.

[sburke]

Come, come sburke...Crayons are so 20th Century. I use a highlighter. It's the latest modern innovation you know. You so must keep up.

Now now George, I wasn't born yesterday.  You can't possible have a highlighter collection like this. 152 different colors!!!!

 

Edited June 13, 2015 by sburke

[George MC]

hmmm. Think I might have crayon envy!

[sburke]

So what you are saying is, you are jealous of how well endowed I am?

 

LeBron, move over.

Edited June 13, 2015 by sburke

[Sublime]

bennet i think you got the reaction you got because if you read your op you.re basically asking for BFC to release an end all be all CM as far as they.re concerned and call it a wrap because you.re concerned you wont live to see CMx10 or whatever. such an attitude is inherently illogical and selfish. you need to face it games will always continie to improve in realism immersion and etc. and theres nothing we can do about our mortality and when or where we were born

[BFCElvis]

As far as the Battlefront Store goes I think they were still selling CMBN 1.0 in the store up until 3.0 came out (of engine x2).  Once 3.0 was completed they then took down the CMBN 1.0 from the store and now they probably only offer new sales as 3.0.  The original plan, I think, was to continue selling CMBN 2.0 until CMBN 4.0 upgrade came out, but I think they realized that wasn't going to be very efficient and now I think everything is sold at 3.0 (although I'm not positive about that since I don't visit the store page ... well ever). 

 

If I am understanding what you're saying here correctly, it's important to point out that it's not true.

 

If you have CMBN v1.x and skipped 2.0, you do not have to repurchase the game to upgrade it. The 3.0 Upgrade now includes 2.0 and 3.0.

 

You are correct that if you were to purchase the base game today you are purchasing the game at v3.0. You cannot purchase the game at 1.0 or 2.0 anymore. So, a new purchase is at 3.0.

[ASL Veteran]

If I am understanding what you're saying here correctly, it's important to point out that it's not true.

 

If you have CMBN v1.x and skipped 2.0, you do not have to repurchase the game to upgrade it. The 3.0 Upgrade now includes 2.0 and 3.0.

 

You are correct that if you were to purchase the base game today you are purchasing the game at v3.0. You cannot purchase the game at 1.0 or 2.0 anymore. So, a new purchase is at 3.0.

I was commenting on what the plan was back when Steve mentioned that BFC wasn't going to continue supporting older titles.  At the time I recall him saying that CMBN 1.0 owners who didn't upgrade within the support window would be out of luck and need to purchase a new game instead as well as patches for older versions.  It quickly became apparent that there was more work involved in maintaining multiple versions than was initially anticipated.  The current installers are very different than the installers at the time the comment was made and so while my statement isn't currently true, it is a reflection of what the original plan was intended to be as I understood it (from Steve's public statements). 

 

So yes, it is important for anyone who still owns CMBN 1.0 to know that they can currently upgrade their game to 3.0 if they choose to in the store right now and no one should interpret my remarks about phasing out support for older versions as being the current state of affairs. 

Edited June 17, 2015 by ASL Veteran