Modern Leopard --> Armata penetration

[Reiter]

As title says, what you gys think, how best Leopard model manages to penetrate Armata´s armor? One guy said, that Leo can´t penetrate it. I am little sceptical for that statement. What you guys think?

[Vanir Ausf B]

I think Armata's armor protection levels are unknown. But if you are ok with WAGs mine is that Armata could be penetrated anywhere except the front hull.

[agusto]

As title says, what you gys think, how best Leopard model manages to penetrate Armata´s armor? One guy said, that Leo can´t penetrate it. I am little sceptical for that statement. What you guys think?

 

As far as i can remember we do not have sufficient information on the Armatas armour to really judge how effective the Leopard 2s gun would be against it. Still i suspect, given the weight of the Armata and the known capabilities of the 120mm L/55 gun, that the statement "One guy said, that Leo can´t penetrate it." is not true. The 120mm L/55s tungston sabots may not be able to penetrate the Armata at ranges as long as they would be able to penetrate, let' s say an early model T-72, but at a certain range, they are definately capable of penetrating the Armata.

[Reiter]

I think this is the link for his statement:

 

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article140083741/Bundeswehr-Kampfpanzern-fehlt-wirksame-Munition.html

 

Google translate:

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Fpolitik%2Fdeutschland%2Farticle140083741%2FBundeswehr-Kampfpanzern-fehlt-wirksame-Munition.html&edit-text=&act=url

 

And

 

http://tass.ru/en/russia/799241

Edited June 7, 2015 by Reiter

[Kieme(ITA)]

How can we discuss something like this?

 

There's no information on Armata armor.

[Reiter]

^ Yeah, and then we can read news like this:

 

Venäjän armeijan uusi taisteluvaunu Armata T-14 kestää sen suunnittelijoiden mukaan kaikkien modernien taisteluvaunujen tykkien, panssaritorjunnan ohjusten ja kranaatinheittimien ammusten osumat. "Panssarointi Armatassa takaa suojauksen kaikista moderneista ja luvassa olevilta panssariammuksilta 120 mm kaliiberilla," sanoi Armatan suunnittelusta vastaavan instituutin tiedottaja TASS-uutisille lisäten, että panssarointi suojaa torjuntaohjuksilta ja kranaatinheittimiltä 120-150 mm kaliibereissa. Suojaus koskee myös ylhäältä tulevia osumia, joihin kohdistetaan mm. taisteluhelikopterien ammukset. Toim. huom.Suunnittelusta vastaava instituutti ei paljastanut TASS:n uutisen perusteella mitään siitä salaisuudesta, joka on voimistanut Armatan ja samalla mahdollisesti koko Venäjän panssaroinnit uudelle tasolle. Vuonna 2013 Venäjän armeija ilmoitti, että uudet boorijauheesta valmistetut nanopanssarit on kehitetty ja lupasi "mullistuksen vuonna 2015". Saksassa on julkaistu raportti, jonka mukaan modernisoituihin Venäjän tankkeihin ei enää riitä Leopard 2-taisteluvaunujen iskukyky ja kestää ainakin vuoteen 2017 ennen kuin uusiin ammusvaatimusten haasteisiin kyetään vastaamaan vaunuvalmistajan toimesta. Venäjä on vastikään keskittänyt ensimmäisen testiosastonsa Armata-vaunuja Arktiselle prikaatille Kuolan niemimaalla. Taisteluosaston voidaan odottaa olevan jo parhaillaan pohjoisella alueella.

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Russian army in the new battleground carriage Armata T-14 takes its designers, according to all the modern battle wagons cannons, anti-tank missiles and mortar projectiles hits. "Armor Armatassa to guarantee protection of all the modern and the like olevilta armor-piercing 120 mm caliber," said the Design Armatan Institute spokesman TASS news, adding that the armor protection of missiles and mortars from 120-150 mm caliber. Security is also a top future hits, which are subject to mm. combat helicopters ammunition. Ed. points. Planning Institute of failure to disclose TASS's news on the basis of any of the mystery, which has intensified Armatan and at the same time possibly in the whole of the Russian armor to a new level. In 2013, the Russian military announced that the new nano-armor made of boron have been developed and promised "revolution in 2015". Germany has published a report according to which no longer enough modernized Russian tanks Leopard 2 battle wagons in good shape and will last at least until 2017 before the new projectile requirements to meet present challenges by the wagon manufacturer. Russia has recently focused its first test department Armata-wagons Arctic brigade in the Kola Peninsula. Battle Group can be expected to already be in the northern region.

 

http://www.verkkomedia.org/news.asp?mode=10&id=13536

[AttorneyAtWar]

^ Yeah, and then we can read news like this:

 

Venäjän armeijan uusi taisteluvaunu Armata T-14 kestää sen suunnittelijoiden mukaan kaikkien modernien taisteluvaunujen tykkien, panssaritorjunnan ohjusten ja kranaatinheittimien ammusten osumat. "Panssarointi Armatassa takaa suojauksen kaikista moderneista ja luvassa olevilta panssariammuksilta 120 mm kaliiberilla," sanoi Armatan suunnittelusta vastaavan instituutin tiedottaja TASS-uutisille lisäten, että panssarointi suojaa torjuntaohjuksilta ja kranaatinheittimiltä 120-150 mm kaliibereissa. Suojaus koskee myös ylhäältä tulevia osumia, joihin kohdistetaan mm. taisteluhelikopterien ammukset. Toim. huom.Suunnittelusta vastaava instituutti ei paljastanut TASS:n uutisen perusteella mitään siitä salaisuudesta, joka on voimistanut Armatan ja samalla mahdollisesti koko Venäjän panssaroinnit uudelle tasolle. Vuonna 2013 Venäjän armeija ilmoitti, että uudet boorijauheesta valmistetut nanopanssarit on kehitetty ja lupasi "mullistuksen vuonna 2015". Saksassa on julkaistu raportti, jonka mukaan modernisoituihin Venäjän tankkeihin ei enää riitä Leopard 2-taisteluvaunujen iskukyky ja kestää ainakin vuoteen 2017 ennen kuin uusiin ammusvaatimusten haasteisiin kyetään vastaamaan vaunuvalmistajan toimesta. Venäjä on vastikään keskittänyt ensimmäisen testiosastonsa Armata-vaunuja Arktiselle prikaatille Kuolan niemimaalla. Taisteluosaston voidaan odottaa olevan jo parhaillaan pohjoisella alueella.

----------------------------------------------------------

Russian army in the new battleground carriage Armata T-14 takes its designers, according to all the modern battle wagons cannons, anti-tank missiles and mortar projectiles hits. "Armor Armatassa to guarantee protection of all the modern and the like olevilta armor-piercing 120 mm caliber," said the Design Armatan Institute spokesman TASS news, adding that the armor protection of missiles and mortars from 120-150 mm caliber. Security is also a top future hits, which are subject to mm. combat helicopters ammunition. Ed. points. Planning Institute of failure to disclose TASS's news on the basis of any of the mystery, which has intensified Armatan and at the same time possibly in the whole of the Russian armor to a new level. In 2013, the Russian military announced that the new nano-armor made of boron have been developed and promised "revolution in 2015". Germany has published a report according to which no longer enough modernized Russian tanks Leopard 2 battle wagons in good shape and will last at least until 2017 before the new projectile requirements to meet present challenges by the wagon manufacturer. Russia has recently focused its first test department Armata-wagons Arctic brigade in the Kola Peninsula. Battle Group can be expected to already be in the northern region.

 

http://www.verkkomedia.org/news.asp?mode=10&id=13536

 

Seems legit, no bias here.

 

[agusto]

Sounds like from a finish news site.

[Reiter]

Finnish, yes. This guy who writes news in it, is very pro-separatist/russian guy. There is much information in his site, but you are right if you say that the information there is not 100% objective. Thats why I started to question his info about new russian mega-übertank.

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

Here's really your options when assessing the Armata:

 

1. Learn virtually everything about modern tank systems, spend hours gazing at the photos released of the platforms, reviewing claims, learning Russian and come to your own conclusions based on a well balanced technical perspective.

 

2. Ignore virtually everything.  Wait until the tank actually comes out and enters duty.

 

The Armata has gone beyond being simply a tank in Russia and it's now a propaganda tool.  The Russian government and the government owned media has made some pretty dubious claims....and then Russian fanboys have added onto those claims to a positively insane level of performance well beyond what engineering, science, and human technology is capable of at the moment.  So from that all we have is fairly modest estimates made by outside professional sources that paint a picture of what could be a pretty good tank (assuming you overcome a lot of technical and economic hurdles)....or the Russian version which is a little short  of being the personal chariot of the god-emperor putin's warthrone that is immune to all HATO nuclear weapons and will bring the Russian people to their rightful place ruling over the American eastern seaboard with no losses.

 

It's fairly reasonable to assume the Armata is still going to react poorly to most modern 120 MM sabot type projectiles given the current state of the art in ERA, APS, and passive armor arrays.

[snarre]

there was talking about armata in other topic , sou its beter than t90 but its not gona be anygind super tank. sou take 50% probaganda away on that text and you get answer. 

[sburke]

oh yee of little faith.  A few bits of info that have slipped through Kremlin censors.  The vehicle is not using APS or ERA.  Pfft, paltry low level tech prone to failure.  No instead they have have developed bio genetic pools to create Putin DNA based organic armor that is then layered over a lightweight composite frame allowing a super light, but effectively indestructible vehicle.  They then proceeded to use the same genetic bioengineering to create a laser weapon based on Putin's eyes that can bore through anything at near limitless distance.

 

So enough of the nay saying US propaganda!  To answer the OP the Leopard can not only not penetrate the Armata, when it attempts to the shell will bounce off the Armata directly back destroying the Leopard in turn.

Edited June 7, 2015 by sburke

[Kraft]

So enough of the nay saying US propaganda 

 

armata can be anywhere in the world in less than 7 hours

 

only hato fanboy with malicious intent would hide this crucial fact

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

Armata also wise, will rule over liberated Europe with iron gauntlet of love.  Homosex oppressive rule will end, Russian ownership of France will finally be recognized, and criticism of Russian fuzzy hats punishable by death.

[MikeyD]

The 120mm Rheinmetall gun has been a known quantity for a generation now. The US M829A2 KE round has been in service for a dozen years. So its hardly surprising that Russia would armor a ground-up heavy tank design with the 120mm gun in mind. One would be surprised if they hadn't! It may be a function of the difficulty coping with the 120mm threat that they opted for the overhead gun design instead of crew-in-turret. Perhaps a protected crew-in-turret design simply couldn't be done. One small detail. US has a new enhanced M829E3 KE round being fielded operationally in 2016, and last year put out a contract for the disposal of some seventy eight thousand older DU tank rounds. That includes the current M829A2 rounds.

[akd]

Current round is DU M829A3, about to be replaced with DU M829A4. The KEW tungsten rounds are for export.

[Rongor]

armata can be anywhere in the world in less than 7 hours

 

Aren't there any Chuck Norris / Armata jokes yet?

[sburke]

Aren't there any Chuck Norris / Armata jokes yet?

No, but while we wait there is this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrHmcpRAZNs

[gunnersman]

No, but while we wait there is this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrHmcpRAZNs

I thought I would be tired of the Chuck Norris jokes and "Downfall" Hitler redux...but that was the funniest thing I've seen in a while. And I watch too much youtube/ pick your random silly video.

[Abdolmartin]

Can the Armata also into space? To crush HATO dog satellites and bring the glory of the Rodina to the aliens.

[agusto]

Can the Armata also into space? To crush HATO dog satellites and bring the glory of the Rodina to the aliens.

 

It wouldnt be the first time the Russians try to build a flying tank:

 

[sburke]

and if you really want to have someone watch your back and defend you.... well don't make your new BFF be China.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-08/china-battle-tank-maker-trash-talks-russian-rival-online?cmpid=yhoo

[womble]

Given the video a while back of head-to-head tank trials around a track where the Chinese lumbering monstrosity came in dead last after a number of Russian-based variants, they probably now need to do some glazing of their own...

[Battlefront.com]

Reading the official Russian and fanboy stuff all I keep seeing in my head is a late night TV ad for something made by Ronco. Here's my translation:

"Armor Armatassa to guarantee protection of all the modern and the like olevilta armor-piercing 120 mm caliber,"

----> it slices!

adding that the armor protection of missiles and mortars from 120-150 mm caliber.

----> it dices!

the Russian military announced that the new nano-armor made of boron

----> now with improve micro scrubbing action!

Battle Group can be expected to already be in the northern region.

----> don't take our word for it, listen to these happy customers!

It can go anywhere in the world in 7 hours.

----> if you order in the next 10 minutes you can get express shipping absolutely free!

What I didn't find in that text is anything to say "if you act now, you can get two Armatas for the price of one!"

Now before anybody jumps on me for ridiculing Armata... why shouldn't I? The propaganda hype over this thing is so bad that I feel my braincells dying in agony every time I read some crap about how awesome this totally untested, unproven, unknown, pre-production vehicle is. If it were just coming from fanboys that would be one thing, but the information is coming straight out of Kremlin HQ's propaganda organs. Since they are the same ones trying to rewrite past history, I guess they're just being proactive about the future.

Steve

[Stagler]

It may be many things, including none of the things it has claimed to be. But it is not untested or unproven.