CMBN always with the vehicle surprises.

[Tashtego]

[delliejonut]

I never use that one. The rarity is through the roof.

[Fizou]

Yes, one of the so called wunderwaffe, but it entered service to late to make a difference. 

Edited June 5, 2015 by Fizou

[Agua]

WW2ONLINE?

[John Kettler]

Tashtego,

 

This is clearly another example of the dislocating effect Allied strategic bombing had on German war production.  It got so bad that something, anything, was better than nothing, resulting in the perhaps unique half armored, half wooden halftrack you so kindly brought to our attention. In its defense, though, the camouflage painting is first rate. The paint shop is now back on the target list. George Bradford should (not) be alerted.

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

[womble]

The front and back road wheels can be hydraulically jacked so that it's running on all rubber on roads, for faster speeds and less track wear, then lifted so it's all tracked for best cross-country performance.

[IronCat60]

Ah the rare Sdkfz Acht Kugel Halbspur Lastwagen (Special Ordnance Vehicle 8 Ball Half-track Truck) or Sdkfz 8 KHL! Designed by the Fuhrer himself. And yes it was designed to operate just as Womble described. When der Fuhrer was told of the shortage of materials and had to chose between building trucks for supply or half-tracks to re-equip the Pazer Grenadier forces he thought why not just build both in one vehicle. Historical side note just a few days after this brilliant decision he found out about the StG 44. But because he was in a good mood from his Sdkfz 8 KHL decision he embraced the new weapon. Instead of having the people who went against his orders and developed the rifle rounded up and shot.

[mjkerner]

I believe development of the Sdkfz 8 KHL also caused further delay in the deployment of the Me 262, IIRC.

[agusto]

Designed by the Fuhrer himself.

 

 It' s way too tiny for Hitlers megalomania. Had Hitler designed it himself, it would be 100 meters long, 20 meters high, weigh 300 tons and be equipped with a submarine engine.

[Seedorf81]

Anything goes for BF, as long as it isn't a schwimmwagen..

[IronCat60]

Love the comments gents! Very clever. And Seedorf81 I feel for you. I wish they had the Dodge Weapons Carrier for the Infantry AT Guns instead of the "large target" 2.5 ton truck. You can lead a Kubelwagen to water but you just can't make it swim.

 

Christopher

[BLSTK]

You guys are cracking me up!

[John Kettler]

Did someone say Dom Butgenbach? This ought to be of real interest.  Dom Butgenbach from the perspective of a Battalion Operations Officer who was there. What it doesn't tell you is the 57s each had 9-10 rounds of British APDS, a gift dating back to just before D-Day, I believe.

 

http://www.benning.army.mil/library/content/virtual/donovanpapers/wwii/STUP2/GendronThomasJ%20MAJ.pdf

 

Here is the free version of the pertinent part of a study done by SAIC for the US Army's Concepts Analysis Agency, material which became Against the Panzers, by Karamales and Vannoy. 

 

Anti-Armor Defense Data Study (A2d2) Phase I Draft Final ReportVolume III -- US Anti-Tank Defense At Dom Butgenbach, Belgium (December, 1944)

 

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a284379.pdf

 

Regarding tow vehicles, they should be WC-62, WC-63 1 1/2 ton 6x6 trucks aka weapon carriers for infantry units and M2 halftracks for Armored Infantry units. If the games is modeling 2 1/2 ton 6 x 6 trucks as tow vehicles for the 57 mm, this is wrong and needs to be fixed. Huge size difference.

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

Edited June 13, 2015 by John Kettler

[IronCat60]

THANK YOU JOHN!

 

John, once again you have come up with some great historical material. Thank you for sharing. I throughly enjoy reading these articles.

 

I love the whitty banter among forum members because it is like insider jokes from the people who know what they are talking about.

And thank you to all the forum members who contribute to this site. Big or small, participation says it all.

 

Oh also I am modding the Gaz-mm with canvas doors, a different grill and U.S. markings to make a Dodge weapons carrier. This will be a "drop in the Z folder" file though you will have to remove any other mods for the 2.5 ton truck as it replaces that vehicle. Will be done soon.

Edited June 13, 2015 by mech.gato

[John Kettler]

mech.gato,

 

Delighted to assist! If you like TD stuff, may I suggest www.tankdestroyer.net as terrestrial paradise on the matter. Suggest you first stockpile sanity points, since you're likely to expend your current supply almost as soon as you hit the page. AARs and manuals, to name but two categories of grog glory! Be sure to read the monograph Seek, Strike and Destroy!  It's a CGSC Study.

 

We do have some witty people, but this is possibly the all-time CM classic. I give you Bullethead's masterpiece!

"You've discovered a little-known WW2 tank-grog thing here that BTS, in its search for the ultimate in realism, has modeled in CM. I've been waiting to see if anybody else noticed this.

Most people assume that the M in US vehicle designations means "Model". Thus, the Medium Tank M4 Sherman would be the "Model #4" Medium tank. This is incorrect. The M actually stands for "Mortality" and the number represents the life expectancy of the vehicle in minutes. Thus, Shermans were rated officially at 4 minutes of survival in a combat situation, which is reflected accurately in CM by having them die on turn 4.

After the Sherman had been in production for some time and combat experience had been gained, it was noticed in many cases, particularly for the earlier production runs of Shermans, that the official Mortality rating was a bit optimistic. Thus, the designation was changed to reflect the new data. This involved appending the letter A and another number to the M4 designation, the A standing for "Actually" and the new number being the revised Mortality rating. For example, the M4A2 had a combat-proven life expectancy of "Actually 2" minutes.

Later on, the designation system got even more accurate by appending a number in parentheses and the letter W. Despite the widely held conviction that the parenthetical number was the caliber of the gun, what these symbols really meant was that the tank had a 75% or 76% chance of going WHOOSH in a big fireball when penetrated. However, some models of Sherman were so inflammable that calcualtions showed they had a 105% chance of brewing up, so they just left it at that and didn't bother with the W, because they were going to WHOOSH regardless.

Towards the end of the war, some Shermans gained an E and another number in their designations. The E meant "Extra Cost" and the number was a designator for the manufacturer, to ensure that company got extra money for making the tank. CM accurately reflects this by making these types of Shermans cost more to buy in DYO.

Thus, the M4A3E8(76)W designation meant a tank with an official Mortality of 4 minutes, Actually 3 minutes, cost Extra, and had a 76% chance of going WHOOSH."

 

I think it's grand you're modding the visuals on the 2 1/2 ton, but as a target, it'll be exactly the same as now. BFC ought (pretty please!), IMO, to provide us with a weapon carrier, a commonplace US military vehicle. How commonplace? 43,224 built during the war!!!  Considering the penny packet exotica that is in the game, I believe it eminently fair to ask BFC for the right ATG tow vehicles. The weapon carriers also move things like mortars, HMGs and such. The mortar men on the 81s don't typically carry those on their backs , for example.

 

Fizou,

 

If the logic of what is still rightly said of Wonder Bread, "You wonder if it's bread,"  applies here, then we are left with "Wunderwaffe.; you wonder if it's waffe!" Now, if you mere instead pushing a wunderwaffel, that I might go for.

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

Edited June 14, 2015 by John Kettler

[Seedorf81]

Thank you John, for your explanation on why the Dodge weapon-carrier is long overdue. There even was a version with a 37mm gun in the back. Maybe it was only used in the Pacific, but boy, wouldn't I like to see that one in Combat Mission.

Ehm, AFTER THE SCHWIMMWAGEN, that is!

[John Kettler]

Seedorf81,

 

Happy to help! Besides, I learned something as a result of the exercise. I can see using a 2 1/2 ton truck to tow the monster 3-Inch. Here's a great pic showing the size of the crew relative to the gun. As a bonus, it depicts the first black TD men I can ever recall seeing. It's a big gun--even relative to a halftrack! By contrast, here's a terrific pic of the right wheeled vehicle towing a 57 mm ATG. The pic would make a great diorama, I think.

 

https://portraitsofwar.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/budtruck085small.jpg

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

[Seedorf81]

Hey John,

 

As always I'm impressed with your knowledge and ways to find stuff. Documents and statistics, report and photo's, there seems to be no end to your quest for info.

 

Though sometimes it is a little too specific/detailed/much for me, IMHO the battlefront forum would be less interesting without your contributions. Thanks for your unrelenting input.

 

Unfortunately we weren't talking about the same weapons carrier, I want the 3/4 tonnes one. But both of 'm would be even better. (After the schwimmwagen, off course .)   

[John Kettler]

Seedorf81,

 

Thank you for your kind words regarding my contributions to the Forums. Research is my thing, but when it comes to topics like AARs and weapon production numbers, by category for, well, practically everybody, no one can touch JasonC. Somehow, I got tangled up and wrote the wrong thing down, at least, in terms of what you were talking about: 3/4 ton capacity Dodge W-51 and W-52 series. I erred and badly. By way of atonement, here's the 37 mm armed weapon carrier.

 

 

It turns out, though, that the 1 1/2 ton WC 62 had 23,092 built, while the WC 63 had 20,130 produced. These impressive production numbers are, IMO, more than sufficient to justify the inclusion of the WC-62 and WC-63  in CMBN and, likely, CMFI, not to mention CM: Bulge when that gets here.

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

[Seedorf81]

John,

 

Thanks for that interesting video. (Q.E.D. on you finding things  .)

 

I never expected there would be one of those 37mm Dodges still alive and kicking.

 

What fun it must be to live in the States to be allowed to shoot stuff like that. Here in the Netherlands even water pistols are banned if they even remotely seem to resemble a real gun.