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Snipers . What difference does the gun type make?


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Im particularly thinking US snipers here.  There are 3 calibers for the standard rifle.  What difference if any do the calibers make in game turns? Other than only having 100 rounds , the 7.62 guys can at least replenish off other troops.

 

As for the 50 cal Barret. hows it modeled in game? is it worth shooting at tanks to destroy sensors? How good is it vs infantry? So pros and cons anyone?

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I have tested the sniper rifles a bit, and I can tell you the 0.50 is absolutely capable of penetrations against IFVs, but mainly on the sides and rear. Barrett can reliably kill most of the people inside a BMP-3, for example, and force the rest to panic and abandon it. Side shots often cause partial penetrations (enough to kill a soldier) or internal flak (increases suppression and can wound).
It is theoretically possible to destroy some parts of the tanks, but shooting at them is just a waste of ammo and time, not Worth it. Even the rear of a T-72 is practically invulnerable to the barrett.

 

The .50 is more efficient at long distance (1km) than the other guns (against infantry), while penetrations require mostly a 500m or less range. The other guns can shoot more shots within the minute though. It's Worth to note that soldiers' training/experience level is more important than the weapons when it comes to precision.

Edited by Kieme(ITA)
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I don't know if there are both both action and semi auto sniper rifles modeled but in theory the semis should be able to get faster follow up shots.

I think I've seem DMRs but not 100 sure.

To digress a little it is interesting to note the cultural change in the military regarding snipers. At one time they were considered outcasts-at least that's what I've gathered.

Some have mentioned the widespread use of optics by non sniper infantry has helped changed the attitude.

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silent one,

 

Short answer? Range, hitting power and ability to defeat targets of various types and cover states. The Barrett, for example, firing SLAP, outperforms many WW II ATGs. The same rifle, firing the Raufoss Mark 211 round, can do this.

 



7.62 mm sniper rifles aren't firing generic ball ammo but powerful match grade .300 Winchester Magnum cartridges., so their ammo load is their ammo load. And new US sniper rifles shoot the even more potent .338 Lapua Magnum.

 

One of the big problems in CMx2 is the inability of snipers (or any high velocity weapon, for that matter) to do point target firing against anything other than personnel, such as the Barrett being able to target CITVs and such. Yet similar weapons, Russian 14.5 mm ATRs, did deliver aimed fire on specific AFV components during WW II, a claim easily proved. The problem in CMx2 lies in the Center of Mass targeting used, making hits on things like sensors a fluke, instead of a planned result. In reality, the Barrett is quite capable of doing things like shooting a CITV, dinging in or piercing a gun barrlel on, say, a tank cannon, taking out the feed horn on a radar or microwave directional antenna, hitting and initiating stored ammo, piercing fuel barrels or pipelines and igniting the contents.

 

If trying to stop a truck, the sniper can't target the engine, but has to shoot at the truck and hope the shot hits the engine, yet the famous .357 Magnum revolver once carried exclusively by Highway Patrol officers was the result of the inability to stop a charging car. The .357 did what the rather anemic .38 revolver could not: punch through the car clear to the engine block, which it broke, thanks to enormous impact force. That stopped the car. But the HP officer could do what we cannot: aim at the vulnerable part of the target. 

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

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Im particularly thinking US snipers here.  There are 3 calibers for the standard rifle.  What difference if any do the calibers make in game turns? Other than only having 100 rounds , the 7.62 guys can at least replenish off other troops.

 

As for the 50 cal Barret. hows it modeled in game? is it worth shooting at tanks to destroy sensors? How good is it vs infantry? So pros and cons anyone?

 

The .50 cal rifle:

In my experience the .50 cal is very effective against personell targets at ranges up to 700-800 meters. I havent used it at longer ranges, but at that range, a crack sniper will only need a few shots to eliminate an entire infantry squad. The squad on the receiving end will most likely not be able to even spot shooter. I havent tested it vs. armored vehicles, but i suspect it' s AP capabilities are compareable to those of the M2 HMG. I dont recommend shoot it at tanks though. Most likely the tank will spot your sniper muzzle flash and kill him before the sniper can do any significant damage. .50 cal is just the wrong calibre to succesfully engage MBTs.

 

The 7,62 rifle:

Effective vs. infantry at ranges up to 500m. Snipers in CMBS can probably engage targets at longer ranges with the 7,62, but i havent observed it yet.

 

The 5,56 rifle:

I cant remember how effective this rifle was in my games. Probably though the 5,56 sniper rifle is not much more than an M16 with a bipod and a scope, so i' d say it' s effective range is somwhere between 300-400 meteres, depending on the skill of the shooter.

 

 

The best thing you can do, silent one, is to go to the scenario editor and make a little shooting range. This will get you the most accurate results on how effective the different sniper rifle in CMBS are.

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On a related note, has anyone been able to confirm that the silencers on MK21 PSRs (as seen in game) are actually functional?

 

I dont know it for sure, but i trust in Battlefronts habit to model weapon systems as accurately as possible. If the silencer is not functional, it is probably a bug.

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I dont know it for sure, but i trust in Battlefronts habit to model weapon systems as accurately as possible. If the silencer is not functional, it is probably a bug.

 

 

I hope so too; but if it is indeed functional - there needs to be an option to tell other members of such sniper team to hold fire... otherwise the is no point to having a silencer when your parnter next to you is firing an m4 at full rate...

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I use snipers exclusively

Ive had good successful hits from my guys at short ranges of 200-400 yards.

On moving and stationary targets.

Going out with all long range domination expectation is not realistic.

Ive found long range sniping harder to achive kills.

Also if You shoot for two long your unit will get mortar fire or direct HE on them.

suppressed good for soft targets 100-400 yards

.338 is good for soft targets

.50 cal often hits also at short range more so

I cannot ascertain if .50 gives you advantage on targets in buildings.

Ive never seen it shoot thru an object into a target.

Ive taken out a BMP at 20 yards rapid fire of a .50 sniper rifle into it

Long range ive taken one BMP out.

Rest either partial pen or glance.

At purchase cost its not viable for a main anti armour unit. Buy AT.

With nade launcher in squad they are useful at taking on trucks, infantry, tunguskas with .50 cal (risky :) ) and other light armour. Good suppression unit.

M4 doesnt always fire, if you specifically target i think it will then.

Ive tested in around 14 pbm games.

I only test in battlefield conditions ;)

So Russian snipers become i find a good rival in these active distances of 100-400 yards.

But there lack of a nade launcher means they can be suppressed quicker.

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I totally agree about the suppressed weapon comments

Try targeting and then letting the unit chose its own target and see results

if enemy too close perhaps only suppressed fires

how close was the enemy?

Im wondering if its a close deployment option to snipe?

ive never really thought of this issue so its a good observation / question.

Shows how suppressed weapons teams could be useful and hard to spot.

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I hope so too; but if it is indeed functional - there needs to be an option to tell other members of such sniper team to hold fire... otherwise the is no point to having a silencer when your parnter next to you is firing an m4 at full rate...

 

I totally agree about the suppressed weapon comments

Try targeting and then letting the unit chose its own target and see results

if enemy too close perhaps only suppressed fires

how close was the enemy?

Im wondering if its a close deployment option to snipe?

ive never really thought of this issue so its a good observation / question.

Shows how suppressed weapons teams could be useful and hard to spot.

 

I believe the point of putting suppressors on sniper rifles isn't to make them quiet or stealthy close-in, but to make them more difficult to locate at longer ranges.  Even the best suppressors won't make a rifle totally silent, and a high-power rifle round (like .300, .308, or .388 - even .223) will still make a "crack" as it passes, but they do reduce the muzzle report (as opposed to the sound of the bullet itself) and the muzzle flash.  Suppressors on sniper rifles therefore aren't so you can kill sentries or something close-in, it's so the guy across the valley can't tell exactly where you are by light and sound.

 

FWIW, my experience with sniper teams in-game is that the Tac AI has got pretty good about having the third man (in the US teams generally armed with an M4 ACOG) only open fire when enemies are close enough that I would want the whole team shooting anyways, or sometimes when given a direct target order.  Since the snipers' rifles aren't truly "silent" in the first place, this behavior makes perfect sense to me: everyone fires at targets closer in (where the enemy would likely detect the silenced rifle anyways) than further out (where the guy with the M4 doesn't have the accuracy to make any hits).  I find that it's still the case that snipers are most effective when left to their own devices, with at most a cover arc.

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silent one,

 

Short answer? Range, hitting power and ability to defeat targets of various types and cover states. The Barrett, for example, firing SLAP, outperforms many WW II ATGs. The same rifle, firing the Raufoss Mark 211 round, can do this.

 

7.62 mm sniper rifles aren't firing generic ball ammo but powerful match grade .300 Winchester Magnum cartridges., so their ammo load is their ammo load. And new US sniper rifles shoot the even more potent .338 Lapua Magnum.

 

One of the big problems in CMx2 is the inability of snipers (or any high velocity weapon, for that matter) to do point target firing against anything other than personnel, such as the Barrett being able to target CITVs and such. Yet similar weapons, Russian 14.5 mm ATRs, did deliver aimed fire on specific AFV components during WW II, a claim easily proved. The problem in CMx2 lies in the Center of Mass targeting used, making hits on things like sensors a fluke, instead of a planned result. In reality, the Barrett is quite capable of doing things like shooting a CITV, dinging in or piercing a gun barrlel on, say, a tank cannon, taking out the feed horn on a radar or microwave directional antenna, hitting and initiating stored ammo, piercing fuel barrels or pipelines and igniting the contents.

 

If trying to stop a truck, the sniper can't target the engine, but has to shoot at the truck and hope the shot hits the engine, yet the famous .357 Magnum revolver once carried exclusively by Highway Patrol officers was the result of the inability to stop a charging car. The .357 did what the rather anemic .38 revolver could not: punch through the car clear to the engine block, which it broke, thanks to enormous impact force. That stopped the car. But the HP officer could do what we cannot: aim at the vulnerable part of the target. 

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

This seems to be an issue going by the wayside, I think it was the last patch that increased the ability of troops to target whatever part of the vehicle is visible. Try putting a atgm vehicle hulldown now, then enemy will shoot at the missile mast now (if they get a chance)

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.50 cal sniper rifle was an easy answer, though technically its more an anti-material rifle. Putting holes into Tunguskas and Strelas for example.

I'm sure the other calibers have been properly modeled too, though it would take a heroic feat to test out those round types to come up with differences. I notice in the manual the Mk.21 is said to be chambered for 7.62 NATO, .300 Winchester Magnum or .338 Lapus Magnum with listed muzzle velocities of 841ms, 938ms or 1002ms.

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This seems to be an issue going by the wayside, I think it was the last patch that increased the ability of troops to target whatever part of the vehicle is visible. Try putting a atgm vehicle hulldown now, then enemy will shoot at the missile mast now (if they get a chance)

is this confirmed? units now are able to target specific parts instead of only center mass as has been since day one? Edited by Sublime
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I am playing a QB. Got this situation: at about 1km my T-90AM, couple of them, spotted several Hummers (the recon version). Between the tanks and the hummers, closer to the tanks, there's a berm (the tanks shot from partial if not complete hull down).
Result: most of the hits were: "hit, weapon Mount", that is the big sensor/HMG Mount on top of the hummers. The shots were indeed at those parts, which must have been more visible to the T-90 than the hull of the hummers.

Edited by Kieme(ITA)
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how much of said hummers could the T90s see? is it possible for you to repeat this test at least ten preferabbly more times? as long as Cmx2 has existed BFC has ephatically stated units aim for center mass and the log for 1.03 makes no mention of change regarding thiso

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