Troops Occupying Turrets Unrealistically Vulnerble To Small Arms

[LukeFF]

 

http://www.army-technology.com/features/featureend-of-an-icon-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-humvee-4381884/

 

hmmv is being replaced by JLTV which is a mrap/hmmv crossover

 

 

Uh huh, right. From that very article:

 

But the US Army is quick to stress that the JLTV will not be a like-for-like replacement.

 

"It's important to remember that JLTV is not a one-for-one replacement of the HMMWV... the HMMWV will remain with us for many years to come, filling several missions outside of a full-spectrum threat environment, and I'm confident it will provide useful service in those roles," says Davis.

 

and

 

With thousands of Humvees still in the US inventory - a total of 281,000 were built by AM General - and cost pressures affecting several acquisition programmes including the JLTV, a fleet of autonomous Humvees could continue the vehicle's legacy for many more years to come.

Edited May 16, 2015 by LukeFF

[iluvmy88]

missions outside the full spectrum threat enviroment means training, you dont use the same vehicles you train with. every unit has hmmvs but most units will not have them when they deploy because they receive a different mtow namly the top of the line combat vehicles the army has to offer. my unit also receive brand new (or rebuilt to be specific most "new" hmmvs are rebuilds with a few things added here and there and a complete overhaul of lines/engine ext and they LOOK new but if you look at the frame they are old rebuilds) once we left iraq and went to kuwait but we also kept out entire fleet of caimens and rg33's and i can garuntee they are still sitting in camp beuhring, kuwait. All of the old hmmv's we had (1151 and 1152 varients) where sold to the iraq government and likly stolen or destroyed by now. the newest version of the hmmv is the 1165 which i have yet to see in game. also the army has a rebuild ensentive where you turn in all of your old (1152 and 1151) varients for rebuild and you receive the rebuilt product 1165 and i forget the nomenclature but its a 2 seater with a bed. even then you do not deploy with these as 90% of your MTOW you draw in theater.

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

 

 

missions outside the full spectrum threat enviroment means training,

 

No.  It means everything short of full scale war.  Full Spectrum Operations refers to the complete spectrum of combat, from force on force armor units going to town, to insurgent/paramilitary forces.

 

Basically it's the doctrine writer's response to the hybrid warfare Russia and Iran have invested in pretty hard, and recognizing the need to better address insurgent type enemies during larger conflicts.

 

 

 

you dont use the same vehicles you train with. every unit has hmmvs but most units will not have them when they deploy because they receive a different mtow namly the top of the line combat vehicles the army has to offer. my unit also receive brand new (or rebuilt to be specific most "new" hmmvs are rebuilds with a few things added here and there and a complete overhaul of lines/engine ext and they LOOK new but if you look at the frame they are old rebuilds) once we left iraq and went to kuwait but we also kept out entire fleet of caimens and rg33's and i can garuntee they are still sitting in camp beuhring, kuwait. 

 

Funnily enough, D66 and D6 would have disagreed with you had the North Koreans started something.  Here's my never ending furstration which the stuff you're repeating.  You're describing a ARFORGEN, Iraq/Afghanistan type deployment, over and over again.  This is 100% something that is going away in very short order.  In the CMBS scenario it's a complete ABCT (who's organization does.not.include.and possibly never.will.include MRAPs.) deployed with it's stuff from CONUS (or possibly the prepo yards get revived for reals plus the CAB sized training unit pool in Europe which again has zero MRAPs).

 

The MRAPs remain in Kuwait because they're either:

 

A. Awaiting scrapping.

B. Awaiting being sold in theater

C. Retained for possible counter-insurgency type missions.  

 

They are not there to replace HMMWVs in BCTs preparing for full spectrum operations against a near-peer threat.

 

 

 

All of the old hmmv's we had (1151 and 1152 varients) where sold to the iraq government and likly stolen or destroyed by now. the newest version of the hmmv is the 1165 which i have yet to see in game. also the army has a rebuild ensentive where you turn in all of your old (1152 and 1151) varients for rebuild and you receive the rebuilt product 1165 and i forget the nomenclature but its a 2 seater with a bed. even then you do not deploy with these as 90% of your MTOW you draw in theater.

 

We received M1151s for "gun" truck type vehicles (my commander's vehicle, XO's illicit truck of sin, the Scout Platoon's trucks etc), and M1165 for the not-gun truck uses (chaplain, 1SG's truck, other staff weasels, etc etc).  This happened after the few dozen MRAPs they shipped over to Korea received absolutely zero interest from any organization on the peninsula, and disappeared from the new equipment fielding yard with their shipping labels intact (I'm not sure they even moved out of that motorpool between delivery and removal).  

 

This is distinctive because of all the Army units, 1 ABCT 2 ID was the only one that literally had to be able to go to war (down the road no less) in the span of hours.  If the Army really meant to replace HMMWVs in units preparing to fight a conventional shooting war with MRAPs, 1 ABCT would have had MRAPs.  1 ABCT received MRAPs, rejected same, retained HMMWVs and completed replacing the old unarmored ones instead.

 

I really have no idea where/how you expect MRAPs to fit into a shooting war with the Russians.  In SBCTs, HMMWVs exist only to move rear echelon dudes.  In ABCTs, they are rear echelon vehicles, and for now scouts*.  IBCT needs things that can either fall out of an airplane safely, or get slung by helicopters, and MRAPs cannot do this.

 

JLTV will replace some of the HMMWVs.  But it's still a ways off.  The first BCT should receive them the year after CMBS is supposed to occur.  And we're not even sure what it'll look like yet.  And there are zero, no, none, zip, nadda, absolutely none, actually yes, NOT, zilch plans to use any of the various MRAP vehicles to replace HMMWVs in any of the BCTs for their MTOE full spectrum operation type missions.

 

 

*There's talk of all Scout Platoons returning to the 6 M3 CFV formations.  Right now CMBS just models the ABCT's Cav Squadron with that MTOE, but there's pretty good odds the Battalion Scouts platoon might go to 6 Brads too.

[LukeFF]

even then you do not deploy with these as 90% of your MTOW you draw in theater.

 

Hmm, I guess my brigade (2nd Brigade, 1st ID) didn't get that memo when we deployed to Iraq in 2004.

[poesel]

Does google have a milspeak translator? Just wondering. But - please go on!

[LukeFF]

And, speaking of using Humvees in combat: http://www.janes.com/article/51505/idf-armoured-brigade-adopts-humvees-for-reconnaissance

[delliejonut]

Well I guess that settles it . The Israeli's aren't exactly nailing jello to a tree over there.

[iluvmy88]

Just your local gravedigger 

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/12/21/lockheed-files-federal-complaint-over-humvee-replacement-deal.html?ESRC=todayinmil.sm

1/3 of the hmmv fleet to be replaced with the JLTV like i said it would, the other 2/3 is none combat vehicles( the ones we use for training and day to day operations while stationed CONUS). The Army started taking the Hmmv out of large scale combat duties back in 2010-2011 in Iraq. we literally had 100 of em collecting dust and shrapnel cause we where not authorized to drive them outside the wire. Afganistan is a bit different i understand and you will likly see the new JLTV there as they phase out the HMMV, 

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

Overseas in a COIN fight, yeah, we went for MRAPs because force protection was the only consideration.  In a Full Spectrum Conflict you're still going to see MRAPs/JLTVs collecting dust simply because they are rubbish in a fight where the enemy has AFVs and a reasonable level of infantry portable AT assets.  The JLTV purchase exists towards that end providing a reasonable replacement for COIN/internal security missions, and the JLTV itself exists largely because of how unsatisfactory the MRAPS were outside of a narrow window of performance.

In most formations (ABCT and SBCT) there will be little to no JLTVs.  They will remain likely HMMWVs or whatever light wheeled vehicle comes next.