New CMRT Scenario: Carius at Malinova

[Bil Hardenberger]

After a few turns I can already see that I would rather be going into this one with the German force.. my T-34/85s spot just fine, but can't hit a thing, while the German Tigers are not missing... I had one round hit which bounced.  I'm down three T-34s now with only a scratched Tiger turret to show for it.. I think I need to be at knife range with him, at least with these poorly trained T-34s... which will be difficult to attain in this terrain.

It'll be interesting to see how the heavies fare when they get into action...

[Buzz]

You both will enjoy "Carius at Malinova". George did plenty of research and has solid representation of the players and action. When the heavies start blasting the grins will get BIG 

Buzz

[BletchleyGeek]

2 hours ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

After a few turns I can already see that I would rather be going into this one with the German force.. my T-34/85s spot just fine, but can't hit a thing, while the German Tigers are not missing... I had one round hit which bounced.  I'm down three T-34s now with only a scratched Tiger turret to show for it.. I think I need to be at knife range with him, at least with these poorly trained T-34s... which will be difficult to attain in this terrain.

It'll be interesting to see how the heavies fare when they get into action...

Playing against the AI as the German I found the following (SPOILERS: drag your mouse over the text below to reveal the hidden text):

* It was very hard to engage from a distance the T-34/85 in the village, you need to get your Tigers onto the crest on the right flank of the rightmost German deployment zone. While moving into position, you'll get exposed to enfilade fire from the Soviet armor in the village (that's how I lost a Tiger, due to a hit on the lower left hull).

* The village is the fulcrum of the scenario, it hinders maneuver on the column of Soviet armour that the scenario initial intel suggests. Clearing the village is most important, but you don't want to use too much combat power on that, since then you would end up applying most of your combat power on the Soviet column head on rather than on a side.

* Going into the village with a couple Tigers as Carius did was a really, really bold move. From what I read, it mostly worked because of the lack of experience of the tank crews and collapse in Soviet command and control. In a H2H match, I would be very wary of an opponent keyholing his armour and setting up ambushes in that very close terrain. A not so lucky hit on the weapon mount or turret can blow up the weapons controls or optics very easily... I have been engaging T-34s at 300 meters or less, which is way too close for comfort (I got to see a couple of awesome ricochets of 88mm on the rounded T-34 turrets, wow).

* The StuGs are sitting ducks. If you use them against the village to support you, they will get smashed on the side by the oncoming pain train. And their guns are ineffective at ranges over 1,000 meter against the heavies armour...

* The quality of the Soviet crews is appalling. The AI is of course incapable of anything interesting, but a human player should be able to mass the heavies to maximise their shock effect. Of course, this requires early warning about the Germans actions... something which I concede is only possible to obtain if one has played the scenario before

[George MC]

Hi @BletchleyGeek

That's a neat trick with the text

Interesting and good top tips. I've played it a few times recreating Carius' tactics. It gives you a feel for how lucky he was in that manoeuvre. Given he'd no idea what he was up against in the village it does stand out as an incredibly bold move.

[George MC]

On 04/04/2016 at 9:51 PM, Buzz said:

You both will enjoy "Carius at Malinova". George did plenty of research and has solid representation of the players and action. When the heavies start blasting the grins will get BIG 

Buzz

Cheers @Buzz  Too kind!

[BletchleyGeek]

12 minutes ago, George MC said:

Hi @BletchleyGeek

That's a neat trick with the text

Interesting and good top tips. I've played it a few times recreating Carius' tactics. It gives you a feel for how lucky he was in that manoeuvre. Given he'd no idea what he was up against in the village it does stand out as an incredibly bold move.

Cheers, mate

Who Dares Wins, right? At least sometimes...

[Warts 'n' all]

I've played this recently, first as the Axis, then as the Allies. A great map, an interesting challenge, and a lot of fun to play. Thanks George.

 Carius at Malinovka 22nd July (Axis) - Minor Victory
K.I.A. - 16  W.I.A. - 2  Tanks - 5 
Carius at Malinovka 22nd July (Allies) - Total Victory
K.I.A. - 3  W.I.A. - 1   Tanks - 2

Edited April 6, 2016 by Warts 'n' all

[George MC]

11 hours ago, BletchleyGeek said:

Cheers, mate

Who Dares Wins, right? At least sometimes...

I guess you only ever hear about the ones who succeed. Whilst the ones who dare and don't win, well their account dies with them I guess...

[George MC]

8 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

I've played this recently, first as the Axis, then as the Allies. A great map, an interesting challenge, and a lot of fun to play. Thanks George.

 Carius at Malinovka 22nd July (Axis) - Minor Victory
K.I.A. - 16  W.I.A. - 2  Tanks - 5 
Carius at Malinovka 22nd July (Allies) - Total Victory
K.I.A. - 3  W.I.A. - 1   Tanks - 2

Cheers @Warts 'n' all That's an interesting result. Be keen to see how Bil does this against Panzerleader  

[Holien]

Me too, lurking here waiting on updates, this is a sneaky under the wire AAR. I think with the T34s hide and sneak is the order of the day... However with the heavys a long range duel is possible if you can isolate Tigers.

Good hunting Bil

[Redmarkus]

On 04/04/2016 at 8:57 AM, George MC said:

Hi @Redmarkus

Thanks for the wee ARR - glad you enjoyed it.

I checked the points allocation and it does appear as if there is a minor error in the friendly parameter section. I've corrected it and I'll upload a revised version to the repository. Good catch!

Thanks again.

Cheery!

Thanks George. Looking forward to playing it again as it represents what I regard as the perfect CM scenario in terms of scale, situation and force mix.

[Redmarkus]

On 04/04/2016 at 11:22 PM, BletchleyGeek said:

Playing against the AI as the German I found the following (SPOILERS: drag your mouse over the text below to reveal the hidden text):

* It was very hard to engage from a distance the T-34/85 in the village, you need to get your Tigers onto the crest on the right flank of the rightmost German deployment zone. While moving into position, you'll get exposed to enfilade fire from the Soviet armor in the village (that's how I lost a Tiger, due to a hit on the lower left hull).

* The village is the fulcrum of the scenario, it hinders maneuver on the column of Soviet armour that the scenario initial intel suggests. Clearing the village is most important, but you don't want to use too much combat power on that, since then you would end up applying most of your combat power on the Soviet column head on rather than on a side.

* Going into the village with a couple Tigers as Carius did was a really, really bold move. From what I read, it mostly worked because of the lack of experience of the tank crews and collapse in Soviet command and control. In a H2H match, I would be very wary of an opponent keyholing his armour and setting up ambushes in that very close terrain. A not so lucky hit on the weapon mount or turret can blow up the weapons controls or optics very easily... I have been engaging T-34s at 300 meters or less, which is way too close for comfort (I got to see a couple of awesome ricochets of 88mm on the rounded T-34 turrets, wow).

* The StuGs are sitting ducks. If you use them against the village to support you, they will get smashed on the side by the oncoming pain train. And their guns are ineffective at ranges over 1,000 meter against the heavies armour...

* The quality of the Soviet crews is appalling. The AI is of course incapable of anything interesting, but a human player should be able to mass the heavies to maximise their shock effect. Of course, this requires early warning about the Germans actions... something which I concede is only possible to obtain if one has played the scenario before

My reply is also in white lettering:

When you setup with your Tigers on the rightmost high ground (all of them), immediately order them to reverse away from the crest and then hunt forward to hull down positions facing the village. Open the hatches and spot for a minute and you'll soon start engaging T34s at range.

I didn't move any Tigers into the village itself.

Beware of AI flanking moves against your Tigers on the ridge! This happens consistently and must be written in the AI plan.

Keep the Stugs stationary in the area of dead ground in which they arrive and give them ambush orders. Don't move them or use them to engage the enemy until the Tigers have destroyed the bulk of the enemy force, unless an AI tank happens by and offers a rear shot.

By so doing, you should be able to win this battle with zero losses.

[George MC]

55 minutes ago, Redmarkus said:

Thanks George. Looking forward to playing it again as it represents what I regard as the perfect CM scenario in terms of scale, situation and force mix.

Thanks @Redmarkus Really chuffed to hear this ta

There are multiple Red AI Plans and yes as you observed in your other post several of them have a one aspect in common

I note in the designer notes which AI Plan mimics the Soviet RL response. It's an easy job to turn off any of the AI Plans in the editor so you know which AI Plan you are playing against FYI.

Thanks again for playing this and posting your comments - ta

[Redmarkus]

11 hours ago, George MC said:

Thanks @Redmarkus Really chuffed to hear this ta

There are multiple Red AI Plans and yes as you observed in your other post several of them have a one aspect in common

I note in the designer notes which AI Plan mimics the Soviet RL response. It's an easy job to turn off any of the AI Plans in the editor so you know which AI Plan you are playing against FYI.

Thanks again for playing this and posting your comments - ta

You're very welcome. I hold those willing to devote time and energy to creating CM scenarios in high regard; I've tried a few times, but always gave up in the end.

Just returned from a week in Scotland, by the way (Edinburgh and Elgin). Fantastic place.

[George MC]

42 minutes ago, Redmarkus said:

You're very welcome. I hold those willing to devote time and energy to creating CM scenarios in high regard; I've tried a few times, but always gave up in the end.

Just returned from a week in Scotland, by the way (Edinburgh and Elgin). Fantastic place.

Hi @Redmarkus Thank you - nice to be loved! 

Hope you had reasonable weather for your hols. You probably passed my house on your hols! I'm in Aviemore.

Cheery!

[Redmarkus]

On 15/04/2016 at 8:43 PM, George MC said:

Hi @Redmarkus Thank you - nice to be loved! 

Hope you had reasonable weather for your hols. You probably passed my house on your hols! I'm in Aviemore.

Cheery!

Weather was mixed, so we stuck to forest walks not far from Elgin and the beach - lots of seals spotted, without US Navy ID. Took a drive round Loch Ness, as you do... Also met a bunch of very gung-ho Turkish F16 pilots on the base and had a look at their aircraft.

What's next in your CM plans? I find the large battles in most campaigns too unwieldy; I never rose above Company command in real life. I'd love to play a semi-historical company-sized Axis campaign (with atts and dets) that follows a panzer unit from, say, 1943 to 1945. I could help with ideas, but probably not much more than that.

[Combatintman]

2 hours ago, Redmarkus said:

Weather was mixed, so we stuck to forest walks not far from Elgin and the beach - lots of seals spotted, without US Navy ID. Took a drive round Loch Ness, as you do... Also met a bunch of very gung-ho Turkish F16 pilots on the base and had a look at their aircraft.

What's next in your CM plans? I find the large battles in most campaigns too unwieldy; I never rose above Company command in real life. I'd love to play a semi-historical company-sized Axis campaign (with atts and dets) that follows a panzer unit from, say, 1943 to 1945. I could help with ideas, but probably not much more than that.

George is probably not that far off releasing something right up this street ... KG von Schroif - there's a thread on it hereabouts.

[Redmarkus]

5 hours ago, Combatintman said:

George is probably not that far off releasing something right up this street ... KG von Schroif - there's a thread on it hereabouts.

Great news indeed!

[George MC]

On 17/04/2016 at 6:42 PM, Redmarkus said:

Great news indeed!

It's released now:

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3/cm-red-thunder/cm-red-thunder-campaigns/kampfgruppe-von-schroif-cmrt-campaign/

[Redmarkus]

3 hours ago, George MC said:

It's released now:

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3/cm-red-thunder/cm-red-thunder-campaigns/kampfgruppe-von-schroif-cmrt-campaign/

Thanks! Downloading now.

[Blueonblack83]

Great scenario... I have lost two Tigers (not Carius nor Kerscher, thank God, and they each scored 3 kills), but destroyed 18 Soviet tanks (and 2 T-34s lost their main cannons).

I am considering this a pyrrhic victory, though The Russians would probably in real life recover those losses in days, whereas the two Tigers that got blown up would be irreplacable.

EDIT: Those IS beasts are scary

Edited April 29, 2016 by Blueonblack83

[George MC]

Thanks @Blueonblack83 for the feedback. Glad you enjoyed it!

Aye by this stage in the war the Tiger I was starting to show it's age - especially when the Soviet heavys come a knocking

[Bil Hardenberger]

In the game versus pnzrldr, he is down four Tigers, while I have lost all but two of the T34s.. he was smart and did not move through the town, but kept me at a distance and picked my T34s off one at a time.  I tried to get cute with them once or twice and found that any maneuver by the T-34s was asking for them to get knocked out. 

My IS tanks are doing okay, they miss far more than they hit though... I have lost three of them to this point, all but one Tiger fell to the IS tanks.

The STuGs have not made an appearance, other than to taunt me from behind a treeline.. well out of reach.. though one did take a hit and suffered some internal spalling.  I tried to advance on them with a couple T-34s and promptly lost one and suffered damage to the other and never saw the shooter(s). 

Frustrating scenario to play (though I am finding it a great challenge)... and though the Tigers might not be the dominant tanks they once were, they are definitely a match for the IS tanks... which load so slowly and miss far more than they hit, that the Tigers get two to three hits for every one I manage.

[George MC]

14 hours ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

In the game versus pnzrldr, he is down four Tigers, while I have lost all but two of the T34s.. he was smart and did not move through the town, but kept me at a distance and picked my T34s off one at a time.  I tried to get cute with them once or twice and found that any maneuver by the T-34s was asking for them to get knocked out. 

My IS tanks are doing okay, they miss far more than they hit though... I have lost three of them to this point, all but one Tiger fell to the IS tanks.

The STuGs have not made an appearance, other than to taunt me from behind a treeline.. well out of reach.. though one did take a hit and suffered some internal spalling.  I tried to advance on them with a couple T-34s and promptly lost one and suffered damage to the other and never saw the shooter(s). 

Frustrating scenario to play (though I am finding it a great challenge)... and though the Tigers might not be the dominant tanks they once were, they are definitely a match for the IS tanks... which load so slowly and miss far more than they hit, that the Tigers get two to three hits for every one I manage.

Hi Bil

Cheers for the update.

I feel your pain!

I think taking four Tigers down against a human opponent in this is good going. In RL the T-34 unit guys were pretty much conscripts. Many of the crews had less than five hours training in their vehicles - although several of their officers and NCOs were very experienced.

Aye the IS tanks are slow to reload. But if they land a hit... I do mind reading a German AAR which mentions this. It also mentioned how the crew of an IS would bail out when their IS was hit - probably because they knew that long before they could get another shot off two or three more were rapidly incoming. I'm not sure about the missing bit. TBH I did notice that during playtesting and thought it odd given the crew quality.

Pleased you are finding it a challenge  though

[Holien]

On 06/05/2016 at 5:17 PM, Bil Hardenberger said:

In the game versus pnzrldr, he is down four Tigers, while I have lost all but two of the T34s.. he was smart and did not move through the town, but kept me at a distance and picked my T34s off one at a time.  I tried to get cute with them once or twice and found that any maneuver by the T-34s was asking for them to get knocked out. 

My IS tanks are doing okay, they miss far more than they hit though... I have lost three of them to this point, all but one Tiger fell to the IS tanks.

The STuGs have not made an appearance, other than to taunt me from behind a treeline.. well out of reach.. though one did take a hit and suffered some internal spalling.  I tried to advance on them with a couple T-34s and promptly lost one and suffered damage to the other and never saw the shooter(s). 

Frustrating scenario to play (though I am finding it a great challenge)... and though the Tigers might not be the dominant tanks they once were, they are definitely a match for the IS tanks... which load so slowly and miss far more than they hit, that the Tigers get two to three hits for every one I manage.

Thanks for the update Bil I was wondering how you were doing. 

Sounds like it will be all about how the IS2's do.

Normally when humans play a computer AI scenario the human playing the AI force has an advantage, I guess this scenario breaks that rule?