How to force infantry to use rockets on armor only?

[Abdolmartin]

Hello everyone.

 

This might be a noob question, but anyway:

 

I was playing the "Platoon House Alexandr" mission and I had loaded my squads with all the RPGs contained in the vehicles. I had a squad of US troops with 4 AT-4s, inside a building. Then, they spotted a bunch of enemy infantry in the woods, and all of a sudden I watched in dismay as all of them pulled out their rocket launchers and fired all four in quick succession. Obviously, none of the rockets killed any enemy infantry (the range was over 100 meters and they're pretty inaccurate at that range, which seems to be a common complaint about these weapons), and my armour killing capability was almost reduced by 30% in mere seconds.

 

How can I prevent them from using their rocket launchers on enemy infantry?

[MikeyD]

Wow, that's actually strange in the extreme. CMBS has greatly dialed-back infantry use of rockets on non-armor targets, to the point that people have complained that they won't use them at all! I'm not at all sure why you're a special case. Maybe others have had similar experiences.

[silent one]

I was gutted when playing USA campaign scenario 2. I had 2 Javelins wasted by troops firing them at infantry.  I couldn't believe it!  Id used limited fire arks so they didnt take pot shots at light armor in the distance. I wanted to save it for tanks later.  So  when when my  big squad attacked the village with the recon troops in it, it shot a javelin at the officer squad in the trees! WTF. lol. Then next turn it did the same.  In a scenario thats all about armor. I could well have done without this . lol.

[IICptMillerII]

I was just playing the second mission of the Russian campaign and had a similar issue. My Russian soldiers used a few of their RPG-26's against enemy infantry in a treeline (to little effect) and then when some BTRs showed up I had very few rockets left to engage it with. 

 

Possibly a bit of a side note, I would like to see some kind of ROE control in CM. Something simple like "Do Not Fire" "Return Fire Only" and "Free to Engage"

It would give a lot better control over when and what troops fire at, especially when playing Turn Based games, and the hide command can be a bit annoying at times because it not only tells the soldiers to not engage anything, but it makes them go prone, which is a pain when you have spotter units that you want to not fire at the enemy but remain in a good position to spot enemy targets and call in artillery on them. 

[Apocal]

Possibly a bit of a side note, I would like to see some kind of ROE control in CM. Something simple like "Do Not Fire" "Return Fire Only" and "Free to Engage"

It would give a lot better control over when and what troops fire at, especially when playing Turn Based games, and the hide command can be a bit annoying at times because it not only tells the soldiers to not engage anything, but it makes them go prone, which is a pain when you have spotter units that you want to not fire at the enemy but remain in a good position to spot enemy targets and call in artillery on them. 

 

As a workaround, most players use short target arcs for this.

[Thewood1]

I think there is a thread nearby that complained about not getting infantry to fire their rockets at infantry.

[Kieme(ITA)]

I was gutted when playing USA campaign scenario 2. I had 2 Javelins wasted by troops firing them at infantry.  I couldn't believe it!  Id used limited fire arks so they didnt take pot shots at light armor in the distance. I wanted to save it for tanks later.  So  when when my  big squad attacked the village with the recon troops in it, it shot a javelin at the officer squad in the trees! WTF. lol. Then next turn it did the same.  In a scenario thats all about armor. I could well have done without this . lol.

 

 

Next time you can use a target armor cover ark, and set to to cover the entire map (if you want the team to engage any armor on sight), or restrict it to a given diameter (if you want the team to engage only closer targets).

 

I mean, there are technical problems concerning the orders we can give to the troops, in terms of complexity the tools we have do not let us take all the actions we could imagine. But some tools are there for a reason. If I just read the title of this thread, the first thing that comes up to my mind is: use a target armor cover ark (they were introduced in the game for this very reason).

Edited April 2, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[Abdolmartin]

I was under the impression that "Target armour arc" made them fire at armour in certain arcs, and did not prevent them from using AT rockets on other things.

And BTW, I have seen many cases of RPG use vs infantry, both from my men and from the enemy AI.

[Kieme(ITA)]

From the manual, seems clear to me:

 

The Target Armor Arc works exactly the same as Target Arc, except that the unit will only engage armored vehicles such as tanks within the designated arc

 

Example - you have hidden away an anti-tank gun overlooking a likely route that enemy armor will use to attack. You want the anti-tank gun to maintain the element of surprise, so you give it a Target Armor Arc over the area to ensure that it does not fire on any enemy infantry preceding the tanks.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[Abdolmartin]

Oh, I see, I was mistaken about what those arcs do. But still, that situation is not what I have here.

Pardon me if I'm failing to understand your point, but what I want the infantry to do, is to actually engage infantry in that arc as well, but I want them to use small arms and preserve their rockets. The above lines from the manual suggest that target armour arc makes your unit only target armour in that arc, which is not what I want.

[Kieme(ITA)]

There is a very simple solution to your problem: split your infantry unit, split an anti tank team, you'll get a new team with two soldiers one with javelin plus another dude, could be the sniper or another solider, this way you have a dedicated anti tank team, order it a cover arc for enemy armor and order another cover arc for your infantry for all targets, you get all your firepower (minus two soldiers you must spare for the AT team) for infantry targets, but you are 100% sure that javelins will be used for enemy armor only.

If you want you can try to split your unit and try to see if most if not all of the soldiers with AT4 get into a single unit, then consider that an AT unit (only for close distance, keep in mind).

AT assets acquired from vehicles are casually distributed to the unit, but you can experiment by splitting before the acquisition and/or after it. There's no guaranteed result, but you could achieve interesting mixes. Example: split a US rifle squad by creating a scout team, you get two soldiers in a team, order that team inside a Bradley and acquire two AT rockets, so you get a tag team of two with rockets to whom you can order a cover arc for armor only.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[Codename Duchess]

Target Light, maybe?

[A Canadian Cat]

Yes, target light should encourage less AT rocket use but it will also encourage less grenade launcher use too.  The OP ran into the problem that was noticed during testing and was changed to be less common but it was not eliminated form the Tac AI's tool box.  We could advocate for even less use against non vehicle targets but we already have seen a couple of threads asking for *more* use against infantry.
 
A question for Abdolmartin, did you use the target command on the enemy unit?  Or did you let your guys just choose their own targets.

[cool breeze]

The tac AI is less prone to shoot at infantry with rockets if they have less rockets on them.  So if you want your infantry to free fire rockets and grenades then you give them a lot extra from the vehicles.  If you want them to shoot the rockets less, keep more of them in the vehicles for later. 

[Abdolmartin]

Kieme,

Thanks for the assist. That is indeed a good idea for future cases (although the squad I mentioned was a 4-man HQ, so I couldn't split it).

IanL,

I gave them a target arc in the area to their front.

[A Canadian Cat]

OK a standard target arc should not change their decisions about what to fire.

[Sublime]

I always grab as much ammo and extra weapons as I can before the battle. I often take out BMPS or Bradleys from my inf. companies except for leaving 4-5.  Then in the unit deployment I acquire everything I can and distribute as I see fit. I usually have a platoon or two thats out fitted with most of the heavy weapons (rockets) and use them accordingly. Everyone gets extra ammo, especially for the squad LMG.  The problem of course is that it slows units down, but by splitting them, especially with scouts or an assault element you have a group that can run fast and a group that covers.  Keeping the weapons in the vehicles for later is great and all, but H/Ts in the WW2 titles seem to explode by surprise often and then the equipment is lost.  This applies way more so in BS where the start of the battle is often signalled by one side having several vehicles explode.  Of course its a players choice, but I'd rather have the supplies where it can be used than suddenly lost by a bad decision on my part or simply luck.   In addition you could always buy the supply option in QBs and have it dismounted - then you have an ammo cache which I believe (im not sure) cannot be destroyed.  However its entirely possible it's targetable Ive never had the situation occur..?

[Apocal]

 In addition you could always buy the supply option in QBs and have it dismounted - then you have an ammo cache which I believe (im not sure) cannot be destroyed.  However its entirely possible it's targetable Ive never had the situation occur..?

 

You can't select the dismounted option in a QB. They will always be trucks.

[Sublime]

That sucks. It makes no sense honestly.  That explains why I haven't run into the situation.  So fine - in a scenario can the crates be targeted like a unit?

[Apocal]

That sucks. It makes no sense honestly.  That explains why I haven't run into the situation.  So fine - in a scenario can the crates be targeted like a unit?

 

I don't know, I've never had mine come under threat from the enemy.

[Mastiff]

I find it funny when my 203 rifle men with AT fire their 203s at the amour, go figure..

[silent one]

Having to split a squad just to try stopping it wasting Anti tank ammo on infantry seems extreme. Your loosing 1/4 of your 8 man teams firepower when you need it. On the off chance your javelin guy goes berserk. If the game doesn't have that in it yet. It needs it.  In that scenario I remember having a 4 man squad with a Javelin. You cant split that . our stuffed.

[Kieme(ITA)]

It is better to give the javelin to rifle squads, so that you can split a 2-men team. Having a dedicated AT team helps a lot, and it's the best way if you want to make sure that asset will be used for AT support only. Besides, the split team can be re-joined with the original rifle squad at any time.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[silent one]

Rejoined., yes but thats what caused the problem in the first place. You cant use the combined rifle fire of your entire squad unless your willing to risk them going mental and using the Javelin on the infantry target.lol.

[Kieme(ITA)]

I belive that the sacrifice of 2 men is not that big if that means having the ability and flexibility to use the javelin as you please.

 

The US rifle platoon has a 2 men team as forward observer, you can give the javelin to that team (which is usually less used in combat anyway).

 

There are enough instruments within the game to have solutions to the javelin and AT rocket use, if you want to control it as much as possible, you just need to start using the appropriate commands and combinations.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)