J Bennett Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) I cannot help but marvel at how spoiled many players seem to be. But I guess its because I well remember playing board games in the 70's like Richthofens' War, Panzer Blitz, and Tobruk, among many other games.In my wildest dreams I never could have imagined games like the CMx2 series. But when I see players in the forum lamenting things like how the snow disappoints them I just shake my head sometimes. Edited April 6, 2015 by J Bennett 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I cannot help but marvel at how spoiled many players seem to be. But I guess its because I well remember playing board games in the 70's like Richthofens' War, Panzer Blitz, and Tobruk, among many other games.In my wildest dreams I never could have imagined games like the CMx2 series. But when I see players in the forum lamenting things like how the snow disappoints them I just shake my head sometimes. That could be called PROGRESS...Not complaining i mean...but the IMPROVED QUALITY of games. Yes...We are spoiled. But by now we have HIGH expectations on BFC. They have shown that they are are in a class of their own when it comes to these kind of tactical games but that does not mean that we don't wan't these games to continue evolving. At this day in age snow graphics like in those pictures couldn't possibly be considdered 'GOOD'...(Yes, i know they are in alpha)... The BULGE GAME will without a doubt be the best tactical waregame depicting the battle in the ardennes even without improved snow graphics and new features...But some of us have become 'spoiled' and wish for more then simply - the best... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 ....In my wildest dreams I never could have imagined games like the CMx2 series..... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum15 Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) That could be called PROGRESS...Not complaining i mean...but the IMPROVED QUALITY of games. Yes...We are spoiled. But by now we have HIGH expectations on BFC. They have shown that they are are in a class of their own when it comes to these kind of tactical games but that does not mean that we don't wan't these games to continue evolving. At this day in age snow graphics like in those pictures couldn't possibly be considdered 'GOOD'...(Yes, i know they are in alpha)... The BULGE GAME will without a doubt be the best tactical waregame depicting the battle in the ardennes even without improved snow graphics and new features...But some of us have become 'spoiled' and wish for more then simply - the best... That has nothing to do with "spoiled". We should just hope that BFC does not go the same way like JTS, what they did was to create a engine some ages ago and now they sell it again and again just with a new TOE and new Bitmaps. BFC could do this too and still make money but only because there is no competition, so lets hope for some competition in the feature. What they could and SHOULD do in this new game is working a bit more on the textures ! Modders like Aris and Kieme have shown how much better the game can look if you give the textures some love. Or look at Juju's UI mod, that such a huge improvement over the boring standard look of the UI. BFC could just give these guys the game+any coming module for free and ask them to do the textures and UI, the finall product would look 10 times better ! Edited April 6, 2015 by Wiggum15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ales Dvorak Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) Bees are now simulated in bee suitable enviorments. OMG.... what a great news 'cause I'm really big fan of Flowermission v2. meh... april 1 fools day Edited April 6, 2015 by Ales Dvorak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) For the benefit of those who have never played the game which started all of CM, CMx1's CMBO, which had it, and play only CMx2 WW II games, I wish to point out that an Allied super secret weapon called VT (Variable Time, cover term for radar proximity fuze) made its Landser shredding ground combat debut during the Battle of the Bulge. Prior to then, out of real fear the Germans might capture duds, VT fuzed munitions were only used at sea or firing over water, as in defending England against the V-1s. Short now it can be (sort of) told film. Further, apparently VT entered combat without official permission from Ike! All I ever knew was that it was first used at the Battle of the Bulge. bit of a shocker. Regards, John Kettler Edited April 6, 2015 by John Kettler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waclaw Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 You can clearly see that the quality graphics setting for those Bulge screenshots are set at about balanced or lower, it looks nothing like what a final product would ala Battle for Normandy or Black Sea. You can clearly see that the quality graphics setting for those Bulge screenshots are set at about balanced or lower, it looks nothing like what a final product would ala Battle for Normandy or Black Sea. the truth is that we see the final product, it looks the same as in CMFI - I guess nothing will change here - because it never changed. ps. quality settings, only change the display range of graphic detail - even as you set on the "best" it will not change anything on the screen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 the truth is that we see the final product, it looks the same as in CMFI - I guess nothing will change here - because it never changed. ps. quality settings, only change the display range of graphic detail - even as you set on the "best" it will not change anything on the screen I understand that, but its unfair to say that the quality in the screenshot is the same it would be at if the game was shown on "best", you are absolutely right though, overall graphic quality at its highest probably won't be any different than Black Sea or Red Thunder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 That has nothing to do with "spoiled". We should just hope that BFC does not go the same way like JTS, what they did was to create a engine some ages ago and now they sell it again and again just with a new TOE and new Bitmaps. BFC could do this too and still make money but only because there is no competition, so lets hope for some competition in the feature. What they could and SHOULD do in this new game is working a bit more on the textures ! Modders like Aris and Kieme have shown how much better the game can look if you give the textures some love. Or look at Juju's UI mod, that such a huge improvement over the boring standard look of the UI. BFC could just give these guys the game+any coming module for free and ask them to do the textures and UI, the finall product would look 10 times better ! In fairness JTS has done updates and every game gets them via free patches. For what it is, they are a decent deal. Regarding the modders, they only work on a small subset and at their own pace. Ideas that are floated like this generally ignore both those factors which in the end sink the idea. BF texture guys could do far better on their own if they weren't on a schedule. Fortunately for us they are AND the textures are able to be modded. Best of both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 mjkerner had a problem just a few weeks ago with JTS PzC Market-Garden '44 and e-mailed for assistance and John Tiller himself responded right away. Steve from BFC has also handled a weekend issue I had. I'd say both companies are wargamers friends. Mark and I kinda wish they'd team together to make a cool CMPzC interlink. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum15 Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I have nothing against JTS games, I like the Squad Battles stuff but you can clearly see that they don't put much work into the look of the game (the bitmaps). Oh and I highly doubt it's because of not enough time that the standard textures look that bad... Although they have improved a bit over the last 8 years... But that's not enough. Give the textures more love BFC ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I have nothing against JTS games, I like the Squad Battles stuff but you can clearly see that they don't put much work into the look of the game (the bitmaps). Oh and I highly doubt it's because of not enough time that the standard textures look that bad... Although they have improved a bit over the last 8 years... But that's not enough. Give the textures more love BFC ! What they are just lazy? Have coke bottom glasses and can't see the textures anyway? Are just lousy artists? Even the modders have said BF does good work, but the modders have more time on their own schedule to do the way they personally like (which not everyone agrees is better - even Aris work is too degraded in some folks view from the state of vehicles as they appear in period pics). For a guy who produces pretty much nothing but complaints, you have a lot of opinions about how poor the work is of others. In my company we'd be quietly escorting you out the door without a golden parachute. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) What they could and SHOULD do in this new game is working a bit more on the textures ! Modders like Aris and Kieme have shown how much better the game can look if you give the textures some love. Or look at Juju's UI mod, that such a huge improvement over the boring standard look of the UI. BFC could just give these guys the game+any coming module for free and ask them to do the textures and UI, the finall product would look 10 times better ! As long as we have those VERY TALENTED modders around i don't think that the quality of the stock textures (and the UI) is a big problem. It might even be the opposit. The discussions on the CM FORUM about these MODS are to a large degree what keeps the forum ACTIVE. I think a lot of people more or less check into this place only to check out the latest MODS. Given the lack of 'follow-up scenarios' (even though it shows some signs of improving, i think...) the comments about the MODDING WORK helps to keep this forum ALIVE. This is a GOOD thing ! But i agree...The MODDERS do improve the look of the game...If we did not have them i would be more concerned and i also think that so would BFC...I actually think that BFC more or less counts on those MODDERS - to 'improve' the game... wich...Ones again...is a good tactic as it keeps the forum discussions going and also keeps a 'steady flow of updates and improvments...' going while we are waiting for new releases... Had those MODDERS not been around i think that BFC would have put more time into the textures.. We owe those MODDERS a big THANK YOU ! Edited April 7, 2015 by RepsolCBR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 For the benefit of those who have never played the game which started all of CM, CMx1's CMBO, which had it, and play only CMx2 WW II games, I wish to point out that an Allied super secret weapon called VT (Variable Time, cover term for radar proximity fuze) made its Landser shredding ground combat debut during the Battle of the Bulge. Prior to then, out of real fear the Germans might capture duds And they had a devastating impact. To the point that German troops refused to leave their bunkers. Interestingly the Germans were on their way to producing an equivalent weapon by 1940 but, by a fuhrer decree, it was postponed in favor of projects that were applicable to the upcoming Barbarossa campaign. They developed a working prototype in 1944 but it was too late for meaningful production. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) c'mon man, what is wrong with the out of the box stuff? Granted it isn't Normandy, this is just what I happen to be playing right now. Damn it looks good. Edited April 7, 2015 by sburke 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I don't think that it is that much that is 'wrong' with the out of the box stuff but some things CAN BE, and ACTUALLY ARE improved by the MODDERS. To name the two biggest improvements the MODDERS bring to the game imo that would be... WEATHERED VEICHLES and IMPROVMENTS to the UI I don't think that there are very many players that HAVE NOT downloaded ALL of Aris and Kiemes weathered veichles as well as juju's UI for example... There's nothing 'wrong' with the stock veichle textures but they may look a bit to BRAND NEW... It has become more or less 'rutin' that some talented MODDERS set about to edit these veichles as soon as the games come out and as i said...this modding brings some increased activity to the forum...wich i think BFC likes. Had these MODDERS not been around i think that BFC themself would indeed 'improve' the STOCK veichle textures in a simular way before releasing the game... As things are now...that is not neccesary and i think/hope that the MODDERS actually enjoys editing these things. This allows BFC to spend more time on other things like the VEICHLE MODELS, SOLDIER MODELS, ANIMATIONS and stuff like that that they do VERY WELL ! The veichle- and soldier models are indeed VERY GOOD ! Most of the terrain graphics are also GOOD right out of the box but the MODDERS brings some improvements to this to. Things like the SUN EFFECTS are also very nice...So NO, the game is not 'BAD' when it comes out of the box...FAR FROM IT ! The things i did not like about the BULGE photos was not the textures (these can- and hopefully will be modded). It was the flattness of the snow graphics...on the ground, on the vegitation, on the buildings and on the veicles. As i mentioned earlier in this thread...THE BULGE GAME will be the first BASEGAME based on winter conditions. I had hoped to see some more 3d effects/depth to the snow grapics and when i questioned why they showed us these pictures this is what i ment. The WINTER CONDITION is one of the PRIMARY features of this game and this BONE showed nothing new in this regard...or to be honest...Nothing new at all... Thats why i think that showing these pictures now, in this state, might have been a bit premature...Yes...It's aplha but why not wait Better to wait until some NEW stuff could be shown... I'm sorry if i'm sounding negative but i really do want nice winter graphics/effects for the future CM games... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umlaut Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 The things i did not like about the BULGE photos was not the textures (these can- and hopefully will be modded). It was the flattness of the snow graphics...on the ground, on the vegitation, on the buildings and on the veicles. As i mentioned earlier in this thread...THE BULGE GAME will be the first BASEGAME based on winter conditions. I had hoped to see some more 3d effects/depth to the snow grapics and when i questioned why they showed us these pictures this is what i ment. The WINTER CONDITION is one of the PRIMARY features of this game and this BONE showed nothing new in this regard...or to be honest...Nothing new at all... Thats why i think that showing these pictures now, in this state, might have been a bit premature...Yes...It's aplha but why not wait Better to wait until some NEW stuff could be shown... I'm sorry if i'm sounding negative but i really do want nice winter graphics/effects for the future CM games... + 1 from me. BFC usually only reveal stuff when they are ready. That is why some of us get a bit worried when the screenshots show nothing new. Because we then fear that the Bulge game will in fact have no new snow graphics. Hopefully these pics are just a deviation from the standard procedure and actually only show us that there is really nothing ready for us to see - yet. If so, this debate has probably confirmed to BFC that their usual "no-news-at-all-until-were-absolutely-ready" policy was the correct way to go. Now feel free to call me a whiner, ingrate or whatever. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Now feel free to call me a whiner, ingrate or whatever. Naaaaw, you have to whine a lot more than that to get me to call you on it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I think Chris just wanted to show us the winter camo/whitewashed tanks and those looked good to me. Still I remember when we got the first screen shot from CMBN consisting of a Tiger and the fury from some saying Battlefront was selling out by posting a Tiger poster first in an appeal to ignorant Nazi fanbois. I think they know by now what ever they post there will be some extreme negative reactions and they just let those run off the dukw's back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Better to get those negative reaction BEFORE the game comes out...rather then AFTER This atleast gives BFC a chans to do something about them...If they considder them valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I personally am really hoping they can improve fog. It's pretty bad as it stands. The extreme setting isn't even visually as thick as CMX1's light setting. Mord.Ditto. The only thing with the CMx2 graphics that I'm disappointed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migo441 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 For me, the limited number of animations is probably the most annoying part of the overall graphics. But that's pretty minor in the overall scheme of things. Compared to Panzer Leader and Advanced Squad Leader (was that so long ago!?), the CMx2 stuff is a joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum15 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) Sorry but the standard textures are pretty dull, boring...some would call this...bad. I do ! The distant ground is extrem bad, the UI is boring and old fashioned. It's kind of amusing how some here have a explanation for everything BFC does (they make boring textures because if the modders who keep the forum alive :-o ), they might also will have a explanation if BFC adds no new snow features and graphic effects... Edited April 7, 2015 by Wiggum15 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davek555 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Sorry but the standard textures are pretty dull, boring...some would call this...bad. I do ! The distant ground is extrem bad, the UI is boring and old fashioned. It's kind of amusing how some here have a explanation for everything BFC does, they might also will have a explanation if BFC adds no new snow features and graphic effects... You forgot to add ...In my opinion....I don't agree at all. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I think the standard textures are quite good. Maybe because I don't play FPS'ers, but I am amazed at how good the tanks and other vehicles look,and I think terrain is more than adequate. If I have any beef at all, it's that everything looks a bit too "clean". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Sorry but the standard textures are pretty dull, boring...some would call this...bad. I do ! The distant ground is extrem bad, the UI is boring and old fashioned. It's kind of amusing how some here have a explanation for everything BFC does (they make boring textures because if the modders who keep the forum alive :-o ), they might also will have a explanation if BFC adds no new snow features and graphic effects... Why are you playing this game ??? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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