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Hedgehog Destruction


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I am playing a large QB against another player. He placed a few hedgehogs in the middle of road between some buildings. Not realizing they were indestructible, I placed a blast command on one of the hedgehogs adjacent to a building and lo and behold, the hedgehog was destroyed. I know you can't place blast commands on hedgehog tiles per se, but are they meant to be destructible using my method? Thoughts?

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I'm surprised you achieved that, it's common wisdom on this forum that they can't be destroyed, not even by engineers. I've read a couple of threads by frustrated people asking why they can't be blown up, with the old timers arguing that it's realistic. I'm no expert on history, all I know is that I never managed to blow any up in this game.

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Wire? You can run over it with a tank and it will disappear. One tank can destroy around 4 before it immobilizes, but after I believe the second one, you're going to be moving very slow.

 

Very true! But this thread is about hedgehogs, ie those large iron bars welded together at right angles.

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Very true! But this thread is about hedgehogs, ie those large iron bars welded together at right angles.

Acht!  Not paying enough attention!  Thanks for the gentle reminder of what is undoubtedly my increasing senility! :)

 

Oh, and as proof of that, I went and checked to make sure, because for a minute there I couldn't even remember seeing any hedgehogs in the game.  I think it's time to put me in a home.

Edited by mjkerner
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Acht!  Not paying enough attention!  Thanks for the gentle reminder of what is undoubtedly my increasing senility! :)

 

Oh, and as proof of that, I went and checked to make sure, because for a minute there I couldn't even remember seeing any hedgehogs in the game.  I think it's time to put me in a home.

 

Lol no worries. As long as the home has decent internet, you should be alright :P

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Why redundant, Dellie? Though I've not known the mods ever shut a thread down just because the OP asked 'em to :) I'm intrigued as to the fate of the apparently-destroyed obstacle; there might have been some change that didn't get mentioned (or noticed) in one of the updates since I last attempted to Blast a hedgehog... back in v1.[something]... I'm no demo expert, so I can't speak to realism, but I can see arguments both ways: the "magic demo charge" ought to be able to "morph" into a few dozen feet of det cord which I get the impression would do fine to cut the girders; whether they could be guaranteed to be cut short enough to not simply become track-levering-off anti-tank "caltrops", I couldn't say. It certainly didn't used to be possible to use a Blast order directly on the hedgehog, and I'd be surprised if a Blast on a "nearby" object would be considered focused enough to get rid of the inconvenience (in a similar manner to a Blast on some wire over a mine detonating the mine, though obviously not simulating the same mechanic).

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Why redundant, Dellie?

 

Meh I just realized my friend already made a bug report in the technical forum. I didn't want to be that guy who posts in all the wrong places :D

 

He made me resend my turn to him without taking advantage of the breach in the hedgehogs, which I think is a bunch of hooey :P

 

Seems to me that since you historically should be able to blast hedgehogs, the game is becoming self aware and rewriting its own code. We need to accept our new master and be grateful for his benevolence. :D :D

 

 

Slim, thats also a good point about the terrain mesh. Seems like most small objects completely disappear when crater big enough appears under them.

Edited by delliejonut
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I've always felt that the inability to remove hedgehogs was, at a minimum, exaggerated. If they were truly that indestructible, then the obstacles on the Normandy beaches could not have been removed, certainly not in the time available. I used to have an engineer's field manual that among other things gave instructions on using blocks of TNT to cut through steel girders. This technique would have done the job quite handily. The only catch is that it would take more than a couple of minutes to set up and could not be done under any serious fire. And that for the present is probably why it is not included in the game. Hopefully at some future time this can be modeled accurately.

 

Michael

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just out of curiosity, were the hedgehogs made with concrete bases or something? seems if they were just girders welded together and just set on the ground you could just wrap a chain around them and drag them out of the way pretty easily.

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just out of curiosity, were the hedgehogs made with concrete bases or something? seems if they were just girders welded together and just set on the ground you could just wrap a chain around them and drag them out of the way pretty easily.

 

Some were, but apparently the idea was that the hedgehog would roll around under the enemy tank, getting stuck.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_hedgehog

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just out of curiosity, were the hedgehogs made with concrete bases or something? seems if they were just girders welded together and just set on the ground you could just wrap a chain around them and drag them out of the way pretty easily.

AIUI, the items represented are sunk into concreted "post holes", and so rather more difficult to move. I gather this was the standard employment; it seems that a heavy tank could probably push "loose" jacks out the way, and even if it couldn't, as you say, getting some chains on the things and dragging would mean they'd be useless unless well covered by fire.

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I wholly concur with Michael Emrys' description of demolition work against hedgehogs, because I have personally destroyed a hedgehog!  

 

It was a dark night somewhere near Meaford Ontario... Or was it Gagetown NB?  In any case it required a few blocks of C4 or whatnot strapped to the centre where the I-beams were joined.  

 

It didn't take more than 10 minutes to set up det cord, use strapping to attach explosives, and attach fuses.  Same procedure for concrete dragon's teeth, maybe a little more time for them due to strapping wooden boards to 'sandwich' the explosives against the cement. 

 

I believe such work should be within the scale of CM.  

 

On the other hand, it wasn't a matter of just chucking blocks at it, and it would not be something to do under fire. 

 

Last but not least, these were all freestanding obstacles, nothing sunk into the ground or anchored in any way. 

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I wholly concur with Michael Emrys' description of demolition work against hedgehogs, because I have personally destroyed a hedgehog!  

 

It was a dark night somewhere near Meaford Ontario... Or was it Gagetown NB?  In any case it required a few blocks of C4 or whatnot strapped to the centre where the I-beams were joined.  

 

It didn't take more than 10 minutes to set up det cord, use strapping to attach explosives, and attach fuses.  Same procedure for concrete dragon's teeth, maybe a little more time for them due to strapping wooden boards to 'sandwich' the explosives against the cement. 

 

I believe such work should be within the scale of CM.  

 

On the other hand, it wasn't a matter of just chucking blocks at it, and it would not be something to do under fire. 

 

Last but not least, these were all freestanding obstacles, nothing sunk into the ground or anchored in any way. 

10 minutes to disassemble a "free-sitting" hedgehog seems like it would translate to longer to shear the thing off at its three roots close enough to the ground to not inconvenience a track. Maybe not 3 times as long. But there aren't any demolitions operations that take that long in the game. The approach to date seems to be along the lines of: "If it wouldn't be something you'd even attempt if you were going to be fired on, it's not included." I think I saw somewhere a reference to BFC wanting to elaborate the combat engineering systems in a future version of the game, but for now, one of the limitations of the simplified model is that there's a cut-off point for what is and what is not tractable via the application of explosives.

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10 minutes to disassemble a "free-sitting" hedgehog seems like it would translate to longer to shear the thing off at its three roots close enough to the ground to not inconvenience a track. Maybe not 3 times as long. But there aren't any demolitions operations that take that long in the game. The approach to date seems to be along the lines of: "If it wouldn't be something you'd even attempt if you were going to be fired on, it's not included." I think I saw somewhere a reference to BFC wanting to elaborate the combat engineering systems in a future version of the game, but for now, one of the limitations of the simplified model is that there's a cut-off point for what is and what is not tractable via the application of explosives.

 

Not to split hairs, but in the game, engineers can mark mines, for example.. I wonder if that would be done in real life under fire either.

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