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Who Would have Guessed This 12 years Ago


db_zero
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Yeah, the LCS from my casual look is probably okay for its original designed mission, but is probably a whole lot less than optimal for the jobs that real frigates are called on to do. I expect the Navy is well aware of this and has been forced to go down this road due to budget constraints.

Michael

Unfortunately it's way over budget and behind schedule at this point. The original plan was to buy 50, SECDEF cut that down to 32 (expect this to drop further) with the other 18 now planned to be an upgunned version that still has some serious downfalls. Literally the only thing LCS has going for it is speed (at the cost of range). It's best weapons are the 57mm gun and Griffin missiles (essentially a Navalized Javelin). Absolute waste of taxpayer dollars. I really believe we should have gone with a European Frigate.
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Re: Frigates

The USN has retired the Perry's in favor of the LCS (recently redesignated as a Frigate). The problem is the LCS is a terrible platform for many reasons. The problem is that we wouldn't consider buying the rights to produce a European frigate here at home. The Danish Iver Huitfeldt class for example being cheaper and far more capable while still being designed along modular lines like LCS.

 

LCS is fine for pushing sensors into the danger zones where we expect to take hits regardless of capability, which is what its main mission is. Its certainly better equipped than the OHPs were, since it actually has a functioning radar and missile system.

 

Yeah, the LCS from my casual look is probably okay for its original designed mission, but is probably a whole lot less than optimal for the jobs that real frigates are called on to do. I expect the Navy is well aware of this and has been forced to go down this road due to budget constraints.

 

The jobs that "real frigates" are called to do amount to running down pirates, drug runners and showing the flag. Half the OHPs (the short hulls) didn't even have towed arrays, the SM-1 never worked as advertised, it wasn't equipped with ASROC, had a limited helo complement and generally was the butt of all the jokes, i.e. "The Hellen Keller-class; can't hear ****, can't see ****."

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Yeah, but I thought that wasn't deployed yet.

 

https://youtu.be/Jgv5ixxgTsQ
I ca BS on the pigeons not surviving. And for those that think that looked like a wimpy impact, there was no warhead.

Re: Frigates
The USN has retired the Perry's in favor of the LCS (recently redesignated as a Frigate). The problem is the LCS is a terrible platform for many reasons. The problem is that we wouldn't consider buying the rights to produce a European frigate here at home. The Danish Iver Huitfeldt class for example being cheaper and far more capable while still being designed along modular lines like LCS.

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I'd like to see that amphibious invasion.

These days no need to launch an amphibious invasion. Just move to a place with an open border policy, have lots of kids and start demanding rights and assistance from a party that will exchange that for votes.

Then you'll ask 12,24,36 years later "who would have guessed that?"

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Is this the Fox News thread?. For your information immigration is a hot topic in Britain now; as well as defence spending, which some political parties are receiving popular backing because of their stances on both. I however won't get drawn into a debate on the ethnic make-up of the UK.

 

Here's a thought on why the UK is drifting away from the US, look at your anti-British president and his attitude towards the UK as a whole. Try looking at the UK spilling blood in Iraq and Afghanistan only for it to not matter one bit. Maybe the British government and public are tired of following the US line when Obama can't even be bothered to pretend to be neutral on British sovereign territory disputes (or the 'Islas Malvinas' as he called them).

 

The French are interested in Africa because a large area of it is their old stomping ground, not the UK's, and thus they have a vested interest in protecting countries loyal to France. This coincidentally aligns with US thinking in the region.  When they start deploying ground troops to Ukraine, the Baltics, and Iraq then let me know.

 

One thing for you to all bear in mind as well is the French started the process of deep cuts to its military last year, something Britain started five years ago. So by 2020 they certainly won't be in the same state as they are today and perhaps their global influence will diminish as well.

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Yes I may have been a bit defensive, my apologies. However after fighting one war for thirteen years and another (kind of) for six years I think Britain is entitled to regroup. The US may not have to do this due to its size, but I don't know any other nation (again except the US) that contributed as much in men and materiel to Afghanistan and Iraq as Britain did.

 

What many who are interested in UK defence issues will tell you is that the British Army has been the target of much of the defence budget over the past thirteen years, but looking forward it is likely to be cut in favour of increased naval and air assets to combat emerging threats. And that is a move I completely agree with.

 

BTW BF if you do plan on adding the British Military please don't include this horrible mandible :(

I1YTH8W.png

Edited by -Eddie-
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These days no need to launch an amphibious invasion. Just move to a place with an open border policy, have lots of kids and start demanding rights and assistance from a party that will exchange that for votes.

Then you'll ask 12,24,36 years later "who would have guessed that?"

 

Keep your misinformed and bigoted political opinions to yourself, they have nothing to do with the topic.

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Keep your misinformed and bigoted political opinions to yourself, they have nothing to do with the topic.

Yeah I should have known better, me and some other people were having a spirited debate on the subject and I got carried away. Seems to be a hot topic everywhere.

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I don´t know how this thread came to be what it is, but it is your fault I now want to get back to CMANO after kicking the habit of watching my ships sunk and my planes fall from the skies

 

There goes my weekend... :(

I hear you. I had 15 Combat Mission h2h games going on at one time, but as I finish a game I'm not starting a new one. I'll probably just stick to 2 or 3 WW2 CM games and perhaps 1 or 2 Black Sea games so I can focus in more on CMNO and start a War in The West PBEM game.

 

Balogan has created somethng called Multiplayer Joint Command for CMNO. I just started reading about it and it sounds like a WEGO like system for CMNO. I'm going to download and try this weekend. You may want to take a look into it.

Edited by db_zero
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I gotta ask, what's CMNO? Googling didn't turn up anything that looked relevant, so...?

 

Michael

 

 

Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations (Sometimes shortened CMANO or CMNO)

 

 

A game about watching strange icons moving on a map and spreadsheets at the same time 

 

Alternatively, it could be looked at as a Database you purchase, that happens to have a game attached to it

Edited by Pablius
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A game about watching strange icons moving on a map and spreadsheets at the same time 

 

 

Like Command Ops? I downloaded one of their demos. The Panther Games enjoy a massive rep but that one left me with a feeling of... detachment. A ballet of of swirling icons orchestrated by Tchaikovsky. There's something to be said for the charm of BF's 3D modelling. 

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Like Command Ops? I downloaded one of their demos. The Panther Games enjoy a massive rep but that one left me with a feeling of... detachment. A ballet of of swirling icons orchestrated by Tchaikovsky. There's something to be said for the charm of BF's 3D modelling. 

 

Haven´t played Command Ops but was looking at it just the other day, the thing is I´m a little bored of WWII, so I can´t tell you if it feels similar, it`s an interesting concept they put forward, one day I may decide to give it a try

 

CMANO is supposed to be similar to the Harpoon series, but being late to the party never played that one either, just trying to figure out which version was the latest and greatest was akin to asking about the meaning of life, impossible to get a straight answer without college degree "On all things Harpoon", so never got it in any of it`s incarnations

 

What I can tell you is that the game is playable without tons and tons of hours of study, of course a base knowledge on modern naval and air assets is required or you will end up sending your helicopters to sink a carrier

 

But it is not a friendly or good looking game/simulator, it has no graphics other than icons on a map and the interface is plain windows and spreadsheets, it is, though, surprisingly easy to set up and launch missions, so you can learn to "do stuff" rather quickly

 

Although, getting good at it is another thing entirely, I have made peace with the fact I won´t ever be a good player, just enough to win against the AI from time to time on small to medium size scenarios

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Harpoon stated out as a board game with a huge rule and data annex printed on paper. You used to keep track of things on paper and used a pencil and rolled dice to resolve combat. I think the military-techno thriller writer Tom Clancy used it to help write his books. These were the days when wargaming was boardgaming and companies like SPI, AH, GDW and others were actually viable companies, much like Matrix and Battlefront are today.

 

In the 80’s it was ported to the PC and then the Mac. Back then I had a Mac so I had to wait and wait and wait until it was finally ported to the Mac to play. When I finally made the jump to a 386sx PC I was finally able to play Harpoon in all its glory, as well as Falcon 3.0! I also spend hours killing furry kitty cats in Wing Commander! I’m sure if Wing Commander was released today PETA and other PC bleeding heart l******s would find something to whine about ;).

 

BTW I love cats.

 

Matrix has a number of Harpoon variants. Harpoon Classic, Harpoon Ultimate Additional and Harpoon Admirals Edition. I may have some of this wrong so if so please feel free to correct me.

 

Harpoon Classic and I think Ultimate Additional (never purchased) have the look and feel of the later Harpoon original and the numerous add-ons from the PC version released in the late 80’s and 90’s that you actually had to go to a store like Egghead and buy. If you were devious you would buy the game, copy it to a 5.25 inch or 3.5 disks and then return the game for a full refund. I liked the series and wanted to support it so I refrained from doing that.

 

Harpoon Admirals Addition is a later variant of Harpoon 2 released in the 90’s. Man what a beast Harpoon 2 was when it was first released. Unless you had the latest and greatest Pentium CPU and a decent amount of RAM it could be a computer killer. Unlike today where the microprocessor, video cards, RAM and hard disks are commodity items, back then it was an expensive proposition to upgrade or stay in front of the curve. There were other issues with Harpoon 2 and you either loved it or hated it. Back then you also went to a traditional brick and mortar store and plopped down $39 or so dollars and got 3.5 inch disks in a cardboard box and a printed manual.

 

Command Modern Air Naval Operations is the latest in the series. Graphically its not ARMA or Combat Mission 2. Think of it as being in the Combat Information Center (CIC) of an Aegis Class Destroyer or some command bunker and you get the idea of what it’s all about. It does use Google Earth and some enterprising individuals have created overlays.You will pay alot more than $39 dollars for it and if you want a printed manual expect to pay a lot more. These days with the rapidly changing nature and updates to games the printed manual is probably not necessary, but in cases like War in the West I like having a printed manual. I would pay for a nice Janes like reference manual for Command.

 

Like many other games, going onto youtube and watiching the nice user created tutorials and AARs is a great way to learn Command. Buy a nice tablet with wireless and you'll be set.

 

I am by no means A CNMO expert, so please correct me or add any additional information as you see fit.

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Command is used by military academies and navies around the world as a training tool.

 

Unlike the earlier variants of Harpoon, Command is quite extensive. You can actually simulate a global nuclear war or regional one. Some enterprising individuals using available information created overlays that simulated the current air defense network of China and Europe. I’m sure Russia is out there too.  Very little is out of bounds.  I could go on and on. There is even ground combat, but that is still in its infancy and don’t expect too much. Someday it may be up to POA (Point of Attack) standards.

 

I have argued for some modern graphics that would entice a generation raised on sexy graphics to be implemented. Not only in games like Command, but other classics like War in the West/East, but that is going nowhere and I can to a degree understand. It costs money and really the target audience may not justify it.

 

An old gronard like me can still appreciate the old works of art, but some of my younger friends born 10 or more years later take a look at War in the West or Command, scratch they head in confusion and say uggg…

 

Perhaps Matrix and Battlefront can someday do a cooperative effort or merge and each can bring something to the table and we can have both a deep simulation with nice graphics.

Edited by db_zero
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One last item about Command Naval Air Operations. It does not neglect Asia. No dig at Battlefront ;)

 

Asia is basically a naval and air theater. Land forces are peripheral, but vital for capturing and holding keyareas such as ports, airfields and other ikey nstallaions.

 

An Asia based Combat Mission game would be a nice compliment to CMANO just like the CMPz one is to CMBN . Imagine a nice Combat Mission Black Sea like battle to capture and hold a key installation like a port linked to and based on your CMANO battle in progress.

Edited by db_zero
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